Podcast Episode 288: 4 Flawless Strategies for Managing Stress and Revitalizing Your Relationships Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

Elizabeth Earnshaw: Some of the biggest problems between couples is because they don’t have healthy boundaries. And what I mean by healthy boundaries is they don’t know that sometimes it’s the right time to just talk and to not be completely, you know, All over the place with your emotions or whatever it is.

JoAnn Crohn: Welcome to the no guilt mom podcast. I am your host, JoAnn Crohn joined here by the delightful Brie Tucker.

Brie Tucker: Why, hello, hello, everybody. How are you?

JoAnn Crohn: We have, as always an excellent episode for you today.

Brie Tucker: I know, right? Like, I almost wonder, like, how are we supposed to ever say that

JoAnn Crohn: have a, we have a mediocre. We have a mediocre. No, it’s not

Brie Tucker: we have a dull episode for you today that we

JoAnn Crohn: we have an okay

Brie Tucker: hardest and we gave you the B team. No. Not the case. Not the case at all.

JoAnn Crohn: Our episode today is with the lovely Liz Earnshaw. She is a renowned Gottman therapist, a founder of a better life therapy, a licensed marriage and family therapist, and a clinical fellow of the American association of marriage and family therapy, by offering psycho educational tools for professionals, low fee and no wait time therapy services and tips and advice on her popular Instagram account at Liz listens, which Our Christina here at no good. Mom’s a big fan. She actually introduced us to the Liz world. Liz is dedicated to improving wellbeing everywhere. She’s a proud mom of two kids under the age of five. We talk a lot about marriage. We talk a lot about communicating with your partner. It is a good one. If you feel like you just start yelling at your partner or your partner retreats, or just withdraws within themselves. This episode is for you.

Brie Tucker: Well, you even brought up a good point in the episode where you talked about how you felt like this was something that you were feeling with your teen. So like, not even necessarily about your relationship with your partner, but also you might be finding that you’re having this kind of relationship with your kids.

JoAnn Crohn: Yes. It is good for every single relationship, how stress plays into your interactions and we hope you enjoy. So let’s get on with the show.

Hey, Liz, welcome to the podcast. it’s so funny. We have to admit, like you were a guest that someone on our team, Christina was like, Oh my gosh, I follow her. Make sure you go interview her.

Elizabeth Earnshaw: That’s so nice to hear.

JoAnn Crohn: And so she was a big fan and like, when I checked out your stuff, I love everything you talk about with stress and relationships, see it like, so, so often, especially in our community. and I’m super excited to like, dig into it all with you. , the first thing I’m wondering about is how did you become a couples therapist? Like, why did you want to do this?

Elizabeth Earnshaw: So I initially went to school to be a teacher, and I was a terrible teacher.

JoAnn Crohn: How so? I was a teacher.

Brie Tucker: was it the group thing? Because like, I love kids, but I can’t do

JoAnn Crohn: Oh, I love the group

Brie Tucker: I’m a one on one gal.

Elizabeth Earnshaw: Man, how is it, how? I need your skills. So like, I love kids because I love kids. always wanted to be a teacher. I thought I’m going to be the best teacher in the world. I have so much patience for kids. I just love them. And I am horrible at classroom management. Horrible.

JoAnn Crohn: It’s a skill. It’s not an innate ability. It’s definitely not.

Elizabeth Earnshaw: I am too, I think I would be too like, , one on one, you know, like I wanted to hear their side of the story. You can’t do that when you have 30 kids in a room. You’re like, nope, we need to have structure here. , so I was not good at it. And after I, , had that degree, I thought, what am I going to do with my life? And I was driving down a highway and there was a billboard that said, I Yeah, here’s a couples therapy program. You should do it. And I said, yes, I should.

JoAnn Crohn: That’s funny. It’s interesting how, like, those things just come into your life. Like,

Elizabeth Earnshaw: know. I don’t know.

Brie Tucker: a scene from a movie, right? Like where someone’s like, give me a sign. And then they drive by a billboard and they’re like, okay, that’s a sign. Yeah.

Elizabeth Earnshaw: literally a sign. And I was like, you know what? I am not good at classroom management, but it was a couple and family program. And I said, I bet I would be a good therapist with kids and families. So , I did the program. And then after I graduated, I was working with families and through working with families, I realized I actually want to work with the parents.

I don’t necessarily, I love children, but I didn’t want to do the therapy with the kids. I wanted to do the therapy. With the parents who were struggling to navigate it and, some of that struggle was kind of dripping down into the kids behavior and all of that. So that is how I ended up becoming a couples therapist like 15 years ago, which is wild.

JoAnn Crohn: That is super interesting. Like it’s just one random event and then shaping. It’s one of those things where like, you feel like as a kid, you have to have your whole life goals planned out. , I see this a lot right now in my high school or the messages she’s getting from school. They’re like, Oh my gosh, make sure you like have all these AP courses and that you pick a field that you’re going to succeed in.

And that makes money. And that’s never how real life works. Works. It’s always these like tripping of events, one thing leads to one thing leads to another thing leads to like specializing and this thing. And I see that in you too. and yeah, it’s so, it’s fascinating to me. Now you talk a lot about stress in particular with relationships. , what led you to realize that it’s the issue of stress and that’s what you wanted to concentrate on?

Elizabeth Earnshaw: So when I had my first child several years ago, I started to hate my husband. , and my husband’s a really lovely, wonderful guy. So I was a little confused about why do I hate my husband so much? , and you know, I was really struggling. I’m sure the two of you can relate

Brie Tucker: like, I’m trying not to say like, yeah, that resentment, when you first have your kids, like, there’s just, oh man. If you’re able to get through there without there being any resentment, then I think that you have got some magic

Elizabeth Earnshaw: Yeah, so it’s really challenging, right? And I was really struggling with my husband. We weren’t getting along. I’m a couples therapist and so

Brie Tucker: at this

Elizabeth Earnshaw: Exactly. I was like, I know the rules. Why am I not? I wasn’t following them I was like, why am I not following them? Why are we not able to communicate? This is wild and we went to a couples therapist.

I remember we went And she was kind of just like treating it like it was any sort of disagreement, right? can you listen to what Liz is saying? Can you listen to what Andrew is saying? And I remember leaving and it was like, we didn’t even process anything that happened in that room. It just went in one ear and out the other.

So I started trying to figure out what is going on between the two of us. Because I factually know what we’re supposed to do here. And I factually know that my resentment is not helpful. I know that we have some mental load issues that we need to renegotiate. My husband is actually really loving and is open to renegotiating those, and yet we’re arguing all the time.

And when I went back to work after maternity leave, I was meeting with couples and I just started seeing things in a new lens where I started to recognize these are people who have so much going on in their lives that they are coming into these sessions already so dysregulated and already physiologically flooded, which is the, you know, the level of cortisol you have in your bloodstream, all of those types of things.

They’re already coming in. With all of this because their kids aren’t sleeping. Their job sucks. They’ve got all this stuff. And then I’m asking them, can you just like repeat back what Joanna saying? Because, you know, one person’s like, well, I shouldn’t have to repeat it back to that. And so as I was saying, you know, continuing to work with people.

What I started to recognize is I need to help them deal with their body stress, and I need to help them deal with the stress out in the world before we can get anywhere. , and that kind of led me to being really focused on working with couples who are navigating a lot of stress in their lives.

JoAnn Crohn: so let’s take that like piece by piece. First of all, the body stress. When you start working with a couple about the body stress, what exactly are you doing?

Elizabeth Earnshaw: So when people come into therapy, if they are experiencing diffuse physiological arousal. So what this means is that they are having stress hormones pumped into their bloodstream. It could either be chronic or it could be acute, right? So chronic would be a new mom, Who is never sleeping, is having arguments with her partner, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

, acute would be, I just almost got hit by a car, so I’m kind of scared. , but most people come in, they have this chronic state of diffuse physiological arousal, which means that their body is being pumped full of blood. stress hormones. And because of that, what starts to happen is we actually lose our ability to be relational when you’re in, it’s called DPA for short.

So I’m just going to call it that when you’re in DPA or when you’re flooded, you are supposed to be protecting yourself. That is the evolutionary purpose of it. So if you were being chased by a lion, It would make sense. It would make sense that all of a sudden you’re just focused on yourself. I need to hide, I need to run, I need to punch this lion in the face, or get something to kill it, or whatever.

JoAnn Crohn: Punch it in the face. Yeah.

Brie Tucker: I need to find a ribeye to throw in its direction.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah.

Elizabeth Earnshaw: When you’re arguing with a partner though, Requires the ability to see both people,

Brie Tucker: Yeah, you punch a partner in the face. They’re not very

JoAnn Crohn: Doesn’t

Elizabeth Earnshaw: Not very happy when you stomp out of the room to get away from them. They’re not very happy. When you start screaming, they’re not very happy. When you only want your way in the high or the highway.

It’s not going to work. , and so in the couples therapy room, what I’ll start to see is somebody who is not able to do a few things. One is their mind starts to change. And what that means is they become hyper focused on a specific topic. They can’t see the other point of view.

Brie Tucker: Okay.

Elizabeth Earnshaw: They can’t show flexibility in thinking.

They just want to keep talking about it. They keep talking about the same thing again and again. the other thing that can happen in the mind is they struggle to show or receive affection and , they no longer have problem solving skills. They don’t show curiosity and they lose their sense of humor.

So a huge sign to me in the room is when their partner tries to repair by making a joke and they say, that’s not funny. It’s usually a sign someone is flooded because usually humor is actually a connective thing where somebody can say, Okay, I know I’m being ridiculous. Let’s keep going. , the other thing that happens is in their body.

So I might see that somebody starts to get flush. I might see that they’re shaking their leg, their mouth gets dry. They turn away. They can’t really look at the person. their voice gets loud. Their words might come out, kind of like a short, right? Like they, they don’t finish the word because they can’t get enough oxygen out. So I’m seeing all these things in the room and your question, I’m sorry, this is a long way to get to

JoAnn Crohn: It’s so interesting though. I’m like enraptured because like, I see this in my husband because he’s like chronically stressed at work. And I know he is, but this whole, , lack of sense of humor, not that he gets mad or anything with me, but he gets very like, , he withdraws into himself and that’s something that I see in the stress, like you’re, protecting yourself so much. So this is, fascinating. Keep going list.

Elizabeth Earnshaw: Exactly. So like your husband withdraws into himself. So sometimes I’ll see that some people, they do the opposite. They fight. So they become loud, and they need to talk about it, and they perseverate, and they get anxious, and all of those things.

JoAnn Crohn: That’s me.

Brie Tucker: So you have both Yeah.

Elizabeth Earnshaw: some people, they run away, right? So I call them like,

JoAnn Crohn: that’s me.

Elizabeth Earnshaw: So we get the cobra, who’s me. I’m the one who starts to say mean things, or raise my voice, or become critical. we have like a deer who just gets spooked and runs away. Fine, I’m leaving. I’m gonna stomp out of the room.

I don’t want to talk about this. And then we have the possum, like your husband, who plays dead, right? I’m not here. Leave me alone.

JoAnn Crohn: Puts his headphones in.

Brie Tucker: we had fainting goats on another episode. I was like,

Elizabeth Earnshaw: right, we’re going to change it. It’s not a possum, it’s a fainting goat. JoAnn’s husband is a fainting goat.

JoAnn Crohn: He’s a fainting goat. Except with uh, noise canceling earbuds in. And watching something on Twitch. But yeah.

Elizabeth Earnshaw: That, so that is a huge sign that someone’s trying to soothe themselves when there’s the partner who always goes down to like the basement to play the video game. They just like listen to music. They won’t engage. And I’m not saying like,

JoAnn Crohn: Oh, no. He admits it. He admits it. He admits he’s stressed, and he knows exactly why he’s doing those behaviors, and he explains them, which makes it easier for me, as a partner, to be like, okay, you totally need this. I get it. I’m not taking this personally whatsoever.

Elizabeth Earnshaw: And that is what one of the first things we do in the therapy room. So when I’m seeing these things happen, what usually we start out with is a lot of personalization. They don’t care about me. They go to the basement. They are always yelling. They’re right. It’s like, this person’s a problem. And so the first thing I do is I pointed out and I say, can we just take a minute?

Let’s Not talk about what you’re talking about right now, but I’m noticing that you look like you’ve gotten really red or I noticed that you’re not talking as much as you were. I’m thinking you’re flooded. I’m thinking you’re stressed. And the first thing that we do is we learn that if you’re in that state, you’re not going to be a good communicator.

So there is no point in me asking you to communicate. The most important thing I can teach is that you accept reality. That your partner can’t communicate with you right now or that you can’t communicate and that you take a break. And we know it takes at least 20 minutes for the stress hormones to dump out of your bloodstream. So you need to take at least 20 minutes away from each other. 

JoAnn Crohn: Mm hmm. So Liz, you said that when you recognize that someone is flooded with these stress hormones, that you need some time apart, like at least 20 minutes away from each other.

Now, obviously like, uh, like 20 minutes away, it means one thing to one person, one thing to another person. So like, what do you recommend when you’re spending these 20 minutes away from each other?

Elizabeth Earnshaw: One thing that’s really important is that taking a break is a unilateral decision. It’s like the only unilateral decision that you really make when you’re dealing with relational things. , but you have to remember one person will probably say, no, I want to keep talking. So the first thing you’re doing during those 20 minutes is you’re just choosing that you’re taking the break because you know that ultimately it’s good for the relationship and your job is to not get pulled back in.

So you have to have a really strong spine in those moments because if you’re the one trying to take the break, your partner might be really flooded and they might be saying, no, you need to talk to me. If you don’t talk to me, I’m going to be even more mad, blah, blah, blah.

JoAnn Crohn: Oh, I was like a story to go along with that. I don’t know if you’re a fan of armchair expert at all. yeah, you might’ve heard this story. Like Dax was saying, like him and Kristen used to be fighting a lot. And , Kristen would like leave, physically leave the house. Obviously has to be a D it’s called a deer, right?

Or would leave. And he’s like, you have to stop leaving. , because then we can’t , Fixed this issue. And so like, I’m just reminded of that. And like he, first of all, Bri, I know you’re not as familiar with Dak Shepard for anyone listening. he was going through a lot of addiction struggles. So I’m guessing like early on in the relationship, that was probably where the fights were coming from.

So it’s like, no, no blame to, uh, to Kristen for that, but thinking about those different styles where like, if one partner won’t let the other partner leave, or won’t let the other partner, like. Decompress.

Brie Tucker: I’m going to throw in a little bit of personal experience here. Like I have had that dynamic with my current husband. So like, Due to my previous relationship and what I saw my parents do, my mom is a deer. Like when she would get really upset, she would leave the house. And then my ex husband, when he, when we’d get really upset with each other, he would just stop talking.

And it would go for days. and my current husband is a, he’s like JoAnn’s husband. Like he needs to process, he needs to think. So like when we’re having a conflict, I’m the, I want to talk about it. which is different than the whole stress thing when I’m stressed out, I like run and hide, but, uh, so that’s where the deer comes from, but when we’re having a conflict, I’m the one who wants to talk about it.

And if he can’t talk about it, then,, I think that he’s going to go into the route that I’ve seen in the past where either somebody leaves me, like my mom would leave the house. Not that she wouldn’t come back, always came back. or that where my ex husband would like go away and take away. My interaction with him for days on end.

So now like through therapy, couples therapy, we were able to figure out that I had, so like when he says, I need a break, I’m trying to process this, he’ll often add for my sake, like, I’m still thinking about this and I am not leaving you and we will come back to this and I need that. Because otherwise I run straight to everything’s falling apart and if we don’t keep talking, it’s going to break.

Elizabeth Earnshaw: Well, that is really important. So if people are able to do that and something I work with them over time, like at first, I’m like, if all you can do is take the break, take the break because. That’s better than continuing to scream or saying things you don’t mean or whatever it is, but over time , I use the mnemonic hard for hard conversations So H is halt so you’re just gonna stop like we’re not talking about this anymore.

It’s not gonna go anywhere good I can tell I’m getting flooded or you’re getting flooded a means Attachment. So how do you show that there’s still attachment here? I love you. I’m leaving the house Because I need a break, but I love you, or I’m super flooded, but we will talk about this later. So you’re showing the other person we’re still okay.

But I do need this break. So I’m glad that you’ve said that because that makes all the difference. that’s the difference between a deer just running away because they’re stressed and abandoning you, which is coming from their own stress state that they need to work on and all of that versus somebody saying, I’m recognizing I’m going to get to that point.

And I don’t want to get to that point, so I’m stopping this conversation, and I love you, so I’m tending to your need for secure attachment with me, but I am still going to take this break.

JoAnn Crohn: what do you recommend like doing during that break? I mean, I know you said that one thing is like, if you’re a partner who won’t let them leave, let the other partner leave so that they get it. But like, if you are riled up and you’re flooded with stress hormones, how can you take your

own self down so that you could think more

Brie Tucker: Yeah, if you’re the one who likes to leave, right? Is that like kind of where

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, If you’re, you’re the one who needs a break

Elizabeth Earnshaw: Yeah, or anyway, like when, so when you take the break, some people make the mistake by continuing the argument even in the break. And they either continue it in their own heads, so they keep thinking about it, or they keep texting each other, right? During the break, what we really want to do is allow our stress cycle to finish and to complete.

And our stress cycle is not going to complete if we keep ourselves in the stress. And so what helps us complete a stress cycle? movement, so go for a walk. Mindfulness helps us. So anything to do with the senses. So taking a shower and like feeling the water, going somewhere that has a different temperature.

So if you’re outside, go inside to the air conditioning. if like the two of you, you’re in Arizona and you’re in the air conditioning, go outside to the 115 degree heat, but you’re kind of allowing that stress cycle to be like snapped out, use creativity. So write, draw. Think about other things, any, socialize, but it should not be related to the stressor.

So, you’re not opening up your browser to, like, Google why you’re mad at this person, or to,

JoAnn Crohn: Totally do that. Yeah.

Brie Tucker: Find the, find the points to win the arguments?

Elizabeth Earnshaw: Exactly. Don’t pull up your notes to write down all your points for how to win the argument. You’re letting the stressor go. stress cycle play out. And I always tell people the way that you tell your body it’s not stressed anymore is to do things that stressed out people don’t do.

So stressed out people don’t laugh, stressed out people don’t play, stressed out people don’t go and take a leisurely shower. So you have to tell your body, I’m actually not being chased by a lion, which that’s why it’s okay for me to do a yoga lesson right now. That’s why it’s okay for me to take a shower.

I’m not being chased by the lion. So it’s okay for me to watch a funny movie. I can do this thing. Because nothing scary is actually happening.

JoAnn Crohn: Oh, that’s so interesting because that brings up other things in my mind where I’m stressed about not just relationship issues, but I’m like, don’t think I have the time to do these fun activities when really now it kind of logically makes sense why I need to do the fun activities to show my brain that it’s not stressed and I will actually reduce the stress so that helps on a different level list. Thank you for that.

Elizabeth Earnshaw: Yeah, like if you feel like I have to get back to 80 more emails because da da da da da, actually you should just complete your stress cycle instead first. To make sure you’re not just doing that from an activated, flooded state. It’s like, okay, maybe I can go cuddle with my partner or my kid or whatever it is first. Anything that you would not do if you were being chased by a lion, helps you to finish that stress cycle.

JoAnn Crohn: Awesome. And then I want to hear what we do when we come back to that conversation right after this. 

So Liz, so far we’ve talked about completing the stress cycle, identifying how you and your partner really handle stress, being it a deer or a Cobra or a possum or fainting goat, like Brie likes to act it out, fainting goat, I need to make that, I need to put that online.

I’ll put that online. It has to be a real. So when you’ve completed your stress cycle. What do you do when you come back to that conversation?

Elizabeth Earnshaw: So remember I used the word hard. So remember we halt, attach, and then the next thing is repair. So, repair is. Something that is quick and brief. I’m not talking about the long repair that helps the other person to know we’re cool again. And there’s a lot of different ways that people repair. Some people use an apology.

I’m sorry. When we talk, some people use humor, like. I’m back and I’m my normal self again. Am I allowed in the room? You know, like, and somebody might be like, should I put like my hard hat on? Or is so you could use humor to repair. , some people use affection, so they might come back and say, give me a hug.

some people use their feelings like, Hey, can we talk? I feel really sad. So you come back in and you do a quick repair. Repair is something that is expressing to the other person. You’re safe. So any of those things I just mentioned, those are signals, they’re social signals that you are a safe person to be around in that moment.

And then after the repair, you do something called debrief. And so debrief is when you’re talking about what happened. and so I know that you had a question about like, How do you make this not awkward?

JoAnn Crohn: Mm hmm. Like a meeting with your spouse. Yeah.

Elizabeth Earnshaw: Meeting with your spouse? Yeah. So someone asked like, when there’s a break, how do you come back without it being awkward?

Let it be awkward. Let it be a meeting with your spouse. I think sometimes we buy into this idea that there’s supposed to be this like romantic experience with our partner all the time, but in some ways our relationships are like businesses. And Sometimes saying, you know what, let’s actually talk about what happened and treating it as a meeting can create some boundaries. Some of the biggest problems between couples is because they don’t have healthy boundaries. And what I mean by healthy boundaries is they don’t know that sometimes it’s the right time to just talk and to not be completely, you know, All over the place with your emotions or whatever it is. And so I think that it’s okay to be awkward because being awkward means you’re trying something new because what you were trying before didn’t work.

And you can sit down and in the debrief, I tell people to sit and say what just happened and then describe what happened. don’t get back into the conversation. Well, my point of view was da, da, da, da, and you were wrong, but what happened was I came down the steps and, you know, I had just gotten the baby to bed.

And as soon as I came down, you said to me X, Y, Z. And I just remember when I heard that, I felt like my day was never going to end. I was so tired and when I get tired like that, what I know about myself is I get irritable and I shouldn’t have done it, but I yelled at you and I stomped away. And then the other person says what happened for them.

You know, what happened for me was like, I had just gotten in the door. I was really excited to see you. I saw you come down the steps. I didn’t realize. that you had been putting the baby to bed for 30 minutes. and when I asked you if you wanted to make dinner, I didn’t mean, , are you going to make the dinner?

I just really wanted to spend time with you. And so when you screamed at me, I felt really Surprised, right? So you’re talking about like, these are the things I noticed. This is what happened in our interaction. And then in that debrief, the next thing you want to talk about is how do we make it so that doesn’t happen again?

What will we both do differently next time? So maybe if I was the one who came down the steps, I would say, you know, I think I need to be better at asking more questions. Like when I came down, I just assumed that you wanted me to make the dinner. It enraged me. Okay. Next time when I start to get mad, I’m going to ask you for clarity first.

Maybe the other partner would say, you know what I need to get better at giving you space. When you came down the steps, I already knew you were with the kids all day. So I don’t know why I just didn’t say, you know what, I’m going to let Liz go do her thing. Would you like me to work on giving you more space when you need it?

this is just like an example. But e briefing. This is what happened. This is what we could do better next time. And then you say, great, let’s kiss. Let’s move on and go to the next thing. if there’s a problem that needs to be solved, if you can, in that moment, you can say, Hey, we still need a decision made about that.

Can we talk about it? But sometimes people might say, I’m really exhausted. Could we come back to talk about the thing we need a decision on? Let’s do it on Saturday or something like that.

JoAnn Crohn: I love it. This is such actionable information too for people and giving the acronym like, I am an acronym girl all the way of

Elizabeth Earnshaw: You’re helpful.

JoAnn Crohn: I absolutely love it. and Liz, you have a book coming out in September. Can you tell us about that? Yes.

Elizabeth Earnshaw: Yeah, so I have a book coming out in September called Till Stress Do Its Part, and it,

Brie Tucker: I love that title

Elizabeth Earnshaw: thank you, it talks about what I talked about earlier. It’s partly my story, kind of going through these different stressful experiences I’ve had with my husband and the different things I’ve learned along the way about what made it difficult for us to navigate this.

these things successfully. And then I share kind of, they’re not actual clients, right? Because I wouldn’t give anybody’s confidential information, but I share stories that are kind of, exemplary of the people I’ve worked with and their stressors. And then throughout the book, I weave tips about how do you change this in your own life?

And I give a three step system about like, these are the things that you can start to do to change the way stress is influencing you. I talk a lot about coping skills. So if you are overwhelmed and busy and in a relationship, the book can certainly help.

JoAnn Crohn: I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much for being here with us today. You’ve given us so much to think about, so much to think about. Actually, like when you were talking, I’m like, I need to work on this with my teenage daughter too, because I get very stressed around her and say some of those things that, uh, that you said that the couples were saying to each other. so it’s, given me a lot. So thank you again. We’ll talk to you later.

Elizabeth Earnshaw: Thank you so much for having me.

JoAnn Crohn: It’s so interesting how stress really does play into relationships. Cause I said at the end, what she was talking about where example you withdraw and you expected your husband to come in and check on you. And if he cared about you, he would check on you. I think that was the narrative going through my head for so, so long in my relationship as well.

And it was something that I had to talk with my husband about, because that’s the dynamic I saw play it out in my home growing up. Is if someone like storms off, you’re like, you go and check on them and you care about them and, and whatnot. And other people think that, you know, it’s a sign of respect, give that person time and they will come out when they’re ready.

And when you have like those two conflicting thoughts about the situation, no wonder fights happen and arguments happen.

Brie Tucker: Well, and sometimes it can be really complicated. Like, again, focusing on my own experience, when I retreat, I retreat because I’m scared to say any more.

JoAnn Crohn: Hmm.

Brie Tucker: legitimately a fear thing. And so I need that person to , not only come and check in on me, but encourage me to talk. Otherwise I will just hold it in as long as possible.

And it’s really weird because I don’t know about you, but like, , and I wonder how many people on podcast land ever have this. If my life was a TV show, you would hear the narrator screaming because I’m literally screaming at myself inside saying. Tell them what’s going on and I just won’t, I like, I’ve even had it where like when I get super duper duper duper stressed, I will open my mouth and absolutely no words come out

JoAnn Crohn: Interesting.

Brie Tucker: I can’t speak. I am that like stressed and I need somebody to continuously be there and be like, it’s okay. You can tell me whatever. I’m not going to yell. I’m not going to flip out. I’m not going to think less of you. Like I need them to continuously coax, which I know is not like, that’s not healthy. it needs to be me bringing that piece within.

But that is part of why it was like, I, when I retreat, it’s so important that somebody be there. but I had to be able to articulate that. And I couldn’t even get to that articulation.

JoAnn Crohn: Do you think, like, what she said about completing your stress cycle, because you say you’re so stressed you can’t even say any words, do you think completing your stress cycle would make a difference

Brie Tucker: Oh, I totally think so. Cause I got stuck. It’s, it’s like, I guess I would say like, if we’re going to go with a cycle, it’s like a wheel and the wheel just got like The stress was like this, stick that got stuck through it and now it can’t move and it’s just, I’m absolutely stuck there.

So yeah. Yeah. Luckily, luckily that’s like uber duper stressful. And, but, having been through therapy and being able to recognize that and articulate it now,

JoAnn Crohn: Mm hmm.

Brie Tucker: being able to articulate where he was coming from and where he’s at. Like it’s helped us immensely.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah.

Mm hmm. It’s so interesting. Like the whole therapy thing. Cause I, I mean, I have been through therapy, but I think like, even if you’re thinking like you can’t afford therapy right now, or you don’t have the time for therapy, I’ve also learned a lot from self help books. Like a lot, a lot from books and from programs I’ve been in.

because once you’ve. Hear that other people have those reactions. And once you hear them verbalized, you’re like, Oh, that’s exactly what’s going on. I can relate to that so much. And then it’s like, you get the language to explain yourself better and to understand yourself better. And that it’s immensely helpful because you don’t go in on the shame spiral. You don’t go in on the stuff being like, Oh my gosh, it’s me. I can’t do it. I can’t do it. I need someone

Brie Tucker: it down.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. You start stuffing it down and you don’t know how to communicate it.

Brie Tucker: Well, I know I can’t wait for Liz’s book. I’m very excited. And I just absolutely love that title, Till Stress Do Us Part. Because, yeah, yeah, I think a lot of relationships break down. When you think about it due to stress. And she talks about like all the different, like, not only your own stress, but your relationship stress and all of that.

And so I’m very, I’m very excited for her book. And if you would like to also check out the book, we do have a link in the show notes here. Just click on that. It’ll take you straight to pre order if you’re listening to this before

JoAnn Crohn: And I have to say, like, go pre order that book because pre orders help authors so much. That is how books get on, like, bestseller lists. They look at the number of pre orders. So go pre order that book,

Brie Tucker: And I know what I love about preordering, too. It’s like a little gift to yourself. Like, if anybody else is like me, I have the memory of a goldfish. I preorder a book and then literally two days later, I’ll forget that it’s coming. Then it gets delivered. And I’m like, Oh my God,

JoAnn Crohn: my gosh. Yay!

Brie Tucker: it. Future Brie appreciates past Brie for doing this.

JoAnn Crohn: Yes. Do, do a little like solid for your future self and pre order the book. And until next time, remember the best mom’s a happy mom. Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later.

Brie Tucker: Thanks for stopping by.