Finding the Balance: How to Thrive at Work and At Home and Learning to Say “No” Transcript

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

JoAnn Crohn: Welcome to the no guilt mom podcast. I am your host JoAnn Crohn joined here by the lovely Brie Tucker.

Brie Tucker: Why, hello, hello, everybody. How are you? It is a, a chilly morning here in Phoenix.

JoAnn Crohn: It is, it is chilly. And I know you East coasters, you’re probably listening to us and being like, what are they talking about? Like 50 degrees. Come on. Arizonans like

Brie Tucker: so here is my role.

JoAnn Crohn: thicker skin. Yeah.

Brie Tucker: do, well, I kind of do need to, like, I will say I’ve, I’ve definitely lost my Midwest street cred. I don’t, I mean, I used to have school canceled because there was so much ice you couldn’t open the front door. So I have lost that street cred for sure, but I’m down here right now with a sweatshirt on a hoodie over that a fleece blanket around me slipper socks and I finally did The unthinkable. I turned on my heat because I can’t feel my fingers.

JoAnn Crohn: That is the key that, Oh, you’ve turned on your heater? You turned off your heat?

Brie Tucker: I turned on my heat. I did the unthinkable. Like, I didn’t want to turn on my heat this early in December, but my rule is once the house drops below 70 and it’s actually in the 60s, I’ll, I’ll turn the heat then.

JoAnn Crohn: you gotta do it

Brie Tucker: I’ll turn the heat on

JoAnn Crohn: it. It’s funny because we’re at like the kind of in between time like not heat all the but actually I think we hit it where we don’t need air conditioning much anymore. I mean, we’re we’re kinda chilly for December right now but it smells like burning. And now I it hasn’t been used.

Brie Tucker: it’s, I’m getting, I’m, 50 bucks says by the end of the day I’m going to have a sinus headache. I’m like, why is my head hurt so bad? Oh, it burnt off a whole year’s worth of, of

JoAnn Crohn: it smells like burning. And we know at this time of year, like it’s really hard dealing with the temperature change and then dealing with all of like the end of the year stuff as well as the holidays and with work as well, because Constantly trying to balance how we are doing at home versus how we’re doing it at work, which let me say, I don’t think men deal with the same issue.

Brie Tucker: They do not. I don’t, I, I’ve got

JoAnn Crohn: they don’t

Brie Tucker: that sounds, it sounds really like you versus me, like us versus them, but it really isn’t the same expectations. It really isn’t.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, it’s more of our social programming. Like, I always have to say, like, you know the part in the Barbie movie where America character is taking, like, all of the Barbies in the van and deprogramming them and, like, telling them how it really is? And once they realize, like, okay, , you are in a system where you can never win, they’re like, want to be, like, a foot rubber anymore. and I think that’s really it. Cause we are in a system we can never win. Like this whole concept of the patriarchy. It’s a real thing. It’s a real thing. And it’s where men do not have the same expectations put on them as women do. And for us to be socially accepted by our peers, by larger society, by our parents, by the older generation, you have to fit in this little box. And when you realize that you’re like, well, screw that here we go. We are gonna take it out right now. So that’s what we’re going to talk about today on the cast, this managing this overcommitment that’s caused by all these expectations that we have on us, both at work and at home. And, let’s get on with the show.

Brie Tucker: so we’re not saying that we think that every single situation that it is men versus women and that women always get the short end of the stick. There are exceptions, but those are typically the exceptions and not the norm. In general, our female role in our family is that it is our job to work, to bring in some kind of income into the household, right? Take care of the family which includes like the main bulk of the child bearing and and raising our children.Taking care of the home cooking cleaning cooking. said cooking twice cooking cleaning shopping

JoAnn Crohn: I mean, it’s cooking.

Brie Tucker:  it is and then when you add holidays, mean my husband is is super proactive and everything But I can guarantee you i’m the one that has to do all the shopping for all of our kids. I’m going to be the one that has to do that and do all the shopping for, for any gifts that go from our family to my family, like all of that is on me buying the, do we have enough wrapping paper? Do we have enough tags? Do we have enough bows? When does it have to be done so that it’s ready to go when we have our next family, when we have the family get together? Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: I want to gently push back on you against this, because I think that what you said, like, it’s totally right. These are the expectations that are on, women versus what are on men. But I think that knowing these expectations and then being able to communicate those expectations to your partner is the first step in really alleviating all of this over commitment. I mean, I talked a lot about my Christmas breakdown and if you’re on the No Guilt Mom newsletter, which you totally should be, go to balanceformoms.com.

Brie Tucker: There’s a link in the show notes.

JoAnn Crohn: Mental note for you, podcast listeners. Yes. I talk about my Christmas breakdown and how the day after Christmas I was just sobbing on the couch because it was one of those Decembers that just leeched everything out of me. Like I was doing all the decision making and buying the presents and getting the wrapping paper and making the meals and coordinating all the holiday activities. And I just felt like an empty shell of a person where no one even appreciated what I did and like else had this wonderful holiday I was just like, it sucked. It’s, it was horrible. But it has changed dramatically from five years ago. I mean, this year, my husband, last year, he was in charge of buying all the kids presents and that means everything. gets their wish lists. He coordinates wrapping. Like if he needs my help with wrapping, he will ask me if I can help him. and he does all of that and he does such a good job. Like the kids would much rather have him by their presents than me. I make them sensible and reasonable. And he’s oh, you want this totally. That looks cool. And it’s fun. And they need that. They need the fun.

Brie Tucker: Well, and I will say like, you’re right. Like it’s, I was going to say, like, I guess it’d be like somewhat unfair. Normally, we’ll sit down and we’ll do the wrapping together and my husband will take over the bulk of it because God bless his, very, very neat persona.

JoAnn Crohn: engineering soul. Yeah.

Brie Tucker: straight.

JoAnn Crohn: either, but he has that mentality.

Brie Tucker: was that he left that field. But yeah, like he, he straightens the edges perfectly like the boat and and he even did ask me if we could get wrapping paper that matched our tree this year. So we even have coordinated wrapping paper.

JoAnn Crohn: you see,

Brie Tucker: to our tree. So he taking,

JoAnn Crohn: begging for that.

Brie Tucker: stepping forward, but you’re right. You can’t ask for help or get out of the place where you feel like, and I, the way I describe it is where I feel like I’m drowning. I feel like I keep, I keep trying to get my head above water and I keep getting pushed down. So you can’t get any help from that if you don’t recognize all the things that you are doing. And like you just said that, you’re the one who has the power to move forward with that. 

JoAnn Crohn: You do have a power to change

Brie Tucker: Yeah. It takes a little bit of time, but you can do it. We can, we can help you. 

JoAnn Crohn: It does. It does take a little bit of time. It took me like five years to get to the place I am right now, because one of the things is when you start first, start talking about it, it isn’t a magical switch that just goes, boop. Okay. Everything’s better now. Like I wish it was. It is one of those things you bring it up and then you make a little plan and then you try that plan and that plan doesn’t work. And there’s flaws in that. And then you try again and you keep talking and you keep talking and you keep like, and it’s a back and forth, back and forth so that you do see the improvement over time with it. It’s also a lot to do with you out there because there is stuff that you right now are saying yes to that could be taken off of your plate. For example, I get my brows waxed and and my lip and my chin with all those chinny chin hairs Because i’m sure everyone can relate and this wonderful woman does it each time and she was telling me about her thanksgiving. And she’s like, oh, yeah, you know, I was I was cooking the entire time cooking and like More cooking. And I was talking with her and I’m like, yeah, she’s like, how was your sausages and mashed potatoes? Cause this is what we do for Thanksgiving. We like get, yeah, we get pre made

Brie Tucker: Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah. Okay.

JoAnn Crohn: yeah. And my mom makes mashed potatoes and she came up and that was great. And we have sausages and potatoes, bangers and mash is what it’s called. And I’m like, it was great. It was super easy. Like we weren’t totally full and she’s like, yeah, I just had to cook all day. And I’m like, yeah, I would cook all day. I mean, like, yeah, like we’re just not into that. Like, no one eats it. And she’s like, yeah, no one eats it here either. And in my head, I’m like, why you doing it? Like, why? There’s no reason to put ourselves through all of these things for the sake of quote unquote tradition. When no one even is like enjoying the tradition. Do you know what I mean? it’s. It’s getting set in those like little boxes of what we need to do And we never have the chance to step out and be like, okay what do we actually want to do? That’s a question that I want you to ask yourself. What do I actually want to do? What is actually my priority in all of this? Is it to cook a bunch of food and feel unappreciated the whole day? Or is it to bring family together and have that time to connect and love, everything. 

Brie Tucker: Exactly.

JoAnn Crohn: So we’re going to give you some strategies about this and regarding time right after this break.

When we talk about overcommitment, a lot of the suggestions you hear out there are, Oh, you just need to manage your time better. That’s like, makes me so mad, Brie. Whenever that suggestion is given to women, you just need to manage my time.

Brie Tucker: Here’s a new calendar 

JoAnn Crohn: No, no. Here’s a calendar. Here’s a new planner here. This will help you. Here’s my daily routine. And here’s what you should do each side of the day. It’s just like, blahhh

Brie Tucker: and we’re not and we’re not saying that, you know, you can’t find a new system But a lot of times it’s more than just your planner. it’s a lot more than that.

JoAnn Crohn: it’s a lot more, especially when you’re dealing with the day to day and like for, you and me both struggle with ADHD. We both have shiny object syndrome. And it is incredibly hard to follow a daily routine without wanting to like jump out of your body and go running down the street, it’s like the most crazy thing

Brie Tucker: And I’m going to add that having had the majority of my life the majority of my career life where I worked in an office setting and then now I’m doing an at home thing. First of all, just to be clear, I love working at home. It gives me so much more flexibility and it’s great with the whole, like I’m now no longer like supposed to be somewhere at eight o’clock and I’m leaving my house at eight oh five still trying to make it there by eight. So it helps a lot with that. But it is definitely hard to maintain that focus too and keeping those hard fed boundaries when You have things that kind of eke into it like because again like from working from home, you constantly see all the other things that you could be doing because you’re here.

JoAnn Crohn: you do. And you’re stuck. Also, if you work from home with all of the home maintenance stuff

Brie Tucker: Uh, that’s what i’m talking right?

JoAnn Crohn: He tries to take it over. He really does. , and it’s not his fault, but it comes down to like the logistics of things. He’s like, I would schedule this, but I don’t know when you’re recording a podcast. I don’t know when you’re going to be busy. I don’t know what’s the best time for people to come over. And I’m like, yeah, you’re totally right. That’s kind of on me. Cause I have the house as my workspace and that makes it incredibly hard. And when you do that, when you work from home, it’s easy to say yes to all the home related stuff, but yes to all the work related stuff. And then your brain feels like it’s going to explode.

Brie Tucker: because it is it evolutionary like looking at evolution, it was not made to process that much shit at once. It was not

JoAnn Crohn: No. So it’s almost like you do need something outside your brain that you can refer to. And while I push back very hard against planners, I have to say using my digital calendar is like my lifesaver because it is the thing that shows me what I prioritize things as and what I was like, Oh, this was important that I really wanted to get done today. Oh, there it is right there. And then I have the choice to do it. Now before with time blocking, and we saw this too with our balance members, we had people brain dump everything they had to do. Then they prioritized it based on what was an A task, a B task, a C task, a D task. And it was always hard to figure out, well, what’s an A task, something that aligns with your goals versus a B task, something that needs to be done, but doesn’t necessarily align with your bigger goals. And how do you categorize that? And then once you put it on your calendar. there comes the problem, especially like when I went through this, I didn’t want to do it. It was like the calendar telling me what to do. And I’m like, no, I don’t have the energy to do that right now. Or oh my gosh, my child just is homesick from school and is asking me like every 20 minutes to get him something. Like, I can’t, I can’t have that on my calendar. And I think that’s what a lot of moms get into with time blocking.

Brie Tucker: can be. Yeah. I mean, I think with me, a lot of the problems that I have with scheduling things like they, first of all, like anything else, it’s shiny and it’s new and it works for a little while. And I will say there is something to be said for shiny and new. Especially if your brain works where it likes the shiny objects, like there’s something to be about that.

JoAnn Crohn: Both of ours does.

Brie Tucker: Yes, it likes the shiny objects, and it’s like it absolutely loves it, so you try it for a little while, and it, and it works for a little while. But I think there’s also something to be said for procrastination because a lot of times those goals we have for ourselves, they’re not easy goals. There are things that are going to take work. They’re going to take changing things around. Once we get step one done, then there’s still step two through 60. So with me, sometimes it’s not so much of like, I don’t want the calendar to tell me what to do. It’s that, my body defaults to procrastination. And if there is space, it’s going to take it. It’s going to be like, well, I know this is on here, but technically it’s not due till Thursday noon. So if I started on Thursday at 11, I’ll be fine. I keep it off till Thursday at 11 and then it’ll be, you know, great. Like it’s ignore the fact that I have a doctor’s appointment at that day and time. That sounds like Thursday problem.

JoAnn Crohn: Exactly. And I think, like, I would definitely do that as well, which is why I love what we found now, and what we’re using is called Rainbow Time Blocking, where your tasks and stuff aren’t necessarily prioritized due to like your goals, they’re prioritized based on what you can put off and what you can move easily because it still goes through the same process, still brain dump everything, still categorize it, but now instead, like it starts with red where you have your a task, which are your appointments. Those are things with other people. That you can’t move Like it really takes some coordination to move it. Probably better off keeping that one and not having to move

Brie Tucker: Well, that keeps your brain from doing the whole, that’s a Thursday problem. It gives you the ability to look at it oh, no, that can’t be a Thursday problem because then that affects XYZ.

JoAnn Crohn: B tasks are bottlenecks and I make those pink and those tell me, Hey, if you don’t do this task, it’s going to hold up someone else from doing their task or it’s going to hold up something you want down the road. It’s a bottleneck. so that’s helped me get things done really well because here at No Guilt Mom, I write the newsletter copy, which is just like the little hello you get from me in the newsletter and the story right there.But then, Brie comes in and puts in images and then Christina comes in and formats it and copy edits it to make sure like we don’t have horrible typos as well as putting things that need to be done. If I don’t write that, that puts everybody else off and puts more work on me. So that’s a bottleneck task and that’s a pink task on my calendar. And that really helps me get it done when I see that

Brie Tucker: Oh, and I think that that works like in so many ways because that can also be house stuff too, like things in your family. Like if I don’t do, for instance, at the bottleneck that happens to us every year and you think I would is the, um, shoot, I’m like, the words are escaping my brain at this moment. Um, physicals. Because my son has to get before he starts band camp. Band camp is always the same day, it’s always July 5th, always when it starts. I don’t schedule the physical, then we don’t get the appointment in time, and then he get his form signed, and then he can’t participate in band camp. Now granted, some would argue that my son is in high school, he is perfectly capable of calling and making his own doctor’s appointment, and I hear that. And that is definitely something that, is happening this, coming year. Somebody’s got to take a little bit more because mom keeps

JoAnn Crohn: It takes a while.

Brie Tucker: But that’s it. That’s a great example, I think, though, of a bottleneck. Like, because if I keep putting off calling the doctor’s office because I hate making phone calls because I’m part of that generation of, like, can I just email or sign up online? , Right? Yeah. Then that affects everybody else. It slows everybody else down. So, yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. And we have three more categories in the rainbow time blocking process. And I have an Instagram reel on it, which we will put in the show notes if you want to learn more about rainbow time blocking. And it’s something that we take all of our balance members through. So they get very, very proficient at it the more they progress through the program. It’s really awesome. Highly recommend. And I’m not like fighting my calendar anymore.

Brie Tucker: It helps take off all that stress. A lot it all being on your shoulders because there’s a plan. There’s a plan.

JoAnn Crohn: There’s a plan, and there’s also a, hey, is this really feasible for one person to you have to put it on the calendar, you’re like, oh, that’s not gonna happen.

Like, I have to do three things at the same time if we want that to

Brie Tucker: right? It helps you recognize where you could use support because that’s going to kind of lead us into our next section of having the healthy boundaries.

JoAnn Crohn: The healthy boundaries and boundaries are a hard one and we’re going to give you some tips right after this break.

So one of the big things when we overcommit ourselves is that we say yes to so much stuff. And we say yes a lot out of a sense of obligation, like, oh, I should do that to be a good mom, or I should do that to make the holiday special for my children, like all of these things going through our heads, yes, and then we regret it.

Brie Tucker: Like the whole, I’m really torn on those, uh, and I’ve seen a lot of posts of these lately because we’re getting into the holidays. Remember, you only get 18 Halloweens and you only get

JoAnn Crohn: Oh my gosh.

Brie Tucker: 18 Christmases and then like as they’re getting older. In my case, only have. If we’re going to go to 18, I only have two more Christmases and I get that, yes, in terms of like kind of giving yourself the perspective that it only happens so many times, but at the same time, when you are stressed, it does not help, that just guilts you into having to say yes to everything again.

JoAnn Crohn: It does. And also like, I think those 18 Halloweens and 18 Christmas posts are based on a very limited view of parenting and a very short term view, because this was brought up for me actually by my sister in law where we were talking about parenting and she was talking about her aunt and uncle and her, like her uncle’s now relationship with his kids. And she’s like, they raised these kids in a way that they were helping these kids. They were partners with these kids. They listened. They weren’t authoritarian. They were more like on their side and guiding them along the way. And now she sees her cousins have this great adult relationship where they actually want to spend time with him.They want to be around him. And that is really the parenting style that we teach here at No Guilt Mom. We’re not doing like an 18 and you’re gone. We’re making this long term relationship with our kids where they do want to be around us in the future. And they do come to us and they do see us. So in that sense, there are not 18 Christmases left. There is like a maximum number you’re building a long term relationship with your kids.

Brie Tucker: Yes, like a matter of fact, one of our guests, Ned, Ned Johnson’s been on the podcast a couple of times. He did say that, I think it was in his first episode, so I’ll have to add a link to that here in the show notes, where he mentioned that a lot of us look at it as, our parenting where our child is under 18 years, we look at it as that as our time with our kids. But if you think about it, that’s such a small sliver of their life. Like they have, they have so much more time at, they’re not under our direct care in their life. And. And he just talked about how, like, you need to think about that when you’re having a relationship with your kids. Like, do you want it to be, it’s my way or the highway? We do it this way, no matter what, because that’s going to more than likely make your child be like, yeah, I really don’t

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. out. Peace out.

Brie Tucker: Rather than them wanting, like the example you just gave about your sister in law’s aunt and uncle, that like they don’t have that bond that they could so

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. They have, so they have a bond and that’s like really what we’re going for. So when you see that, you’ll be like, oh my gosh, there are only two more Christmases left where I have to plan everything and then they’re going to start planning stuff and then I just get to attend. That’s awesome.

Brie Tucker: but I also don’t have to take it all on and I don’t have to every like honestly like because you you know this and we’ve talked about on the podcast and I promise i’ll make this little detour very short, because we have great advice for you here. But in my case having two them’s a junior I am definitely starting to feel the crunch of They’re going to be gone soon and I want to make everything this great memorable experience. I want everything to be a Hallmark card at this point going forward because I’m like I’ve got limited time. But at the same time, I have to hear where my kids are coming from. And like, honestly, my oldest, the one that’s making me feel like the Hallmark clock is like ticking down. He’s stressed. He has a lot on his schedule being a junior, all of his honors classes that he’s choosing to take no matter how many times I’ve told him like you don’t need to take all AP and honors. That’s what he wants to do. He has a lot going on and he’s like, as much as I would love to do stuff like all the time, sometimes mom, I just want to be able to relax and just chill out at home. And I’m okay, so yeah, so maybe we won’t be going to this winter wonderland thing together as a family because the boy needs to rest.

JoAnn Crohn: The boy has boundaries. Can we say that? He’s doing a really great job at that, he doesn’t want to overcommit himself.

Brie Tucker: Is he saying no?

JoAnn Crohn: Yes. And it’s a great, great thing. He does not have it in him where he has to say yes to everybody to preserve their feelings. He’s like, I really need this for myself. And you see that you’re like, course you need this for. So it’s really turning that now on us being like, okay, if other people get to request that

Brie Tucker: So do we

JoAnn Crohn: request that as well. Yes. Here’s the thing though, when you set a boundary, when you say no to something, you’re going to want to A, walk it back, that’s going to be a tendency,

Brie Tucker: it’s hard people aren’t happy with you.

JoAnn Crohn: it’s hard having people unhappy with you, and B, people are going to push against the boundary. They are going to so push. So you really need to have a game plan of what you’re going to do because a boundary isn’t about what other people do. A boundary is about what you do when the request or the action happens. So let’s go into this whole thing about wanting to walk it back because Brie, you talk about this with Miguel.

Brie Tucker: Oh okay. Yes, I wasn’t sure where we were going on that one. All right. So yes. All right So here’s an example of walking it back in my house that I I am working on and You know, hands up on podcast land if you’ve ever caught yourself doing this as well. So I am, I am stressed out lately. Dinner for the last couple months has been just my hell. It has been hell because normally I’m the one that does the meal planning because I know what everybody’s going to eat. Again, taking on that mental load of knowing what everybody wants to eat. And, so it’s gotten to the point where I basically was like, Hey, I need you to start taking over dinner for me because it’s just, it’s killing me. It’s far too much. I can’t do it. I’m really stressed out. And so he has set nights that he cooks, but then my request came in and he’s like, all right, tell you what, next week I’ve got a light week. I’ll do dinner every night. And I’m like, Oh my God. That’s like, ahh, it sounded amazing, right? Then the first night comes along and he’s like, so what do you think you want for dinner? And then I’m like frustrated. Cause I’m like, ah, I wanted you to take on like all of it. So,

JoAnn Crohn: making everything.

Brie Tucker: So then what could have been a simple answer of. I really don’t have the mental capacity to even decide on dinner, can you just decide? Or, me coming in, looking at what we have, and like giving a suggestion and walking away. Those were two options that would have been perfectly fine, but no, Brie walked it back. Brie went into the kitchen, begrudgingly like opened up the fridge, found some stuff, and was like, okay, I guess we’ll make this. Next thing you know, I’m chopping, I’m cooking, I’m doing, and he’s over there going, you know, um, you asked me to help you with dinner. I’m here. I’m trying to help you with dinner. I’m trying to cook it, but yet you’re right there cooking dinner.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. It happens.

Brie Tucker: yeah, like, so what I, so the moral of the story ladies is not step in, like once you have set that boundary. You can hold that boundary. Like a lot of us self sabotage it. We don’t even realize we’re doing it because we stepped in because they weren’t doing it the way that we were expecting it to be done in our, in our head.

JoAnn Crohn: That’s a big, big thing because we hear a lot about, you know, you, I can’t delegate to my family cause they won’t do it the right way. And it’s really re examining the, is my way

Brie Tucker: The only way. Is it the way?

JoAnn Crohn: Is it the only way or is there other ways we can get this accomplished where it would, you know, serve the same purpose and reach the same goal, but just have a different way around it. So yeah, that is, that’s one way to like the walking it back. Make sure like you’re really, really, looking for that. It won’t be perfect at first, you’re going to walk it back. I’ve walked it back before many times and had my husband come in and be like, I thought this was And I’m like, you’re right.

Brie Tucker: is, right? The point is, is that we all do it. It’s about being aware that you’re doing it and being able to go, okay, I’m going to, I’m going to go do something else right now.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, it’s like, I see that. I see that. So the B is knowing what to do when the other person pushes back. Like they will push back, especially your kids and you feel horrible. They will bring out everything in their arsenal of tricks to get you to do the thing they want to do. One of the things that goes on a lot in my house recently, especially with the holidays, is decorating. I am not a decorating fan. I really appreciate a well decorated space and I love it, but all of the prep and everything going into that and buying all the things, it’s just like, my brain does not enjoy it at all. I hate, I would say I hate it, making all those decisions. My daughter loves it. She loves it so much so that Brie has co opted her to help decorate for her party. Like she loves it.

Brie Tucker: Take on the mental load, please.

JoAnn Crohn: yeah, so my daughter is always asking me, she’s like, when can we go to Target to get holiday stuff? And I’m like, I, what else do we need here? Like why are we buying more stuff? And she will push back with so much. And once I said to her, I’m like, I don’t like shopping. And so she immediately came back with, you don’t like anything. And I’m like, ouch okay, like and that’s where I was like okay, we’re going to stop this conversation right now because that hurt I walked away before I said anything else, but just know that they’re going to push, they’re going to push and that’s in there. You know that that’s what they do and just know what you’re going to do. A great thing to do is when you’re hurt, own it, say you’re hurt, walk away from the situation and then you can bring it back up another time.

Brie Tucker: Well, that brings up a fantastic point. Like it’s hard to have a good, honest, productive conversation about your boundaries. When you’re mad. That’s not time. No no, because that’s when like hurt things get said and

JoAnn Crohn: it is. Yeah.

Brie Tucker: that’s it. That’s the kids that bring it up and it’s us as adults that bring it up So I love that point. I don’t, when you’re upset step away

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. So like you can even use this phrase. I learned this phrase really helps me. I even use the hand motions with it. I just put like the stop signs in front. I’m like, stop right there. That hurt. And then I leave. And that’s all I say. Like, I don’t go into it anymore. I just stop the conversation right there because I was pissed at that one.

Brie Tucker: well, I would be too and I in but I love that because it’s very simple And it’s to the point, you’re not adding extra, like you’re not adding 15 bazillion reasons why it hurt you, which you, you could, but in the moment when emotions are high, we’re not really processing a lot of language, either parties. And so

JoAnn Crohn: And I feel like it wouldn’t even be listened to like wouldn’t hear it in that moment because she said that because she was hurt that I wouldn’t go holiday shopping I said I didn’t like it. And that’s why she says her comment. She didn’t mean anything against it. It was a hurt comment coming from her.

Brie Tucker: well, the simplicity of that reminds me of my other phase that if you are other phase, other phrase you’ve probably have heard me talk about on the podcast. I like to use, we got, and I got this one from Dodie Bloomberg, who was also on the podcast, one of our like first five episodes. We had Dodie, uh, here for positive discipline, but, I love you and no, like I have to use that one a lot with my daughter because she’s the one who, yeah, I don’t think we can do that, but why not? But why? Mommy? I love you. And this is from a, a almost 16 year old. She how to, and I’ll just be like, I love you and no, I love you and no. Because I can’t, already said no, and it doesn’t mean I don’t love you. But it’s just nope, there’s no more we’re not have this whole i’m not going to give you a million reasons why

JoAnn Crohn: You have your game plan for what you’re doing when the boundary is pushed against and that’s all we can do. So as we get into this holiday season, we’re in the middle of it right now and you’re going, you’re going forward it for the next like two or three weeks. You still have a lot practice these strategies, see how they work for you and for all inspiration for you. Every Monday morning, go to balanceformoms.com. Sign up for the newsletter. You get it when you get that like free task calculator right there on the front page. And we give you more of this great stuff because it really takes like Zig Ziegler, actually, It’s a great quote. People say like they get unmotivated it’s like motivation doesn’t last, neither does bathing.

That’s why you have to do it every day.

Brie Tucker: I like that

JoAnn Crohn: why you need to have that constant motivation and why we’re so happy you’re here at the no guilt mom podcast, where we hope we remind you of it twice a week. So for now, remember the best mom’s a happy mom. Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later.

Brie Tucker: Thanks for stopping by