Podcast Episode 256: The Secret to Understanding Our Teenage Girls with Chelsey Goodan Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

Chelsey Goodan: Everyone is so worried about them and projecting so much fear on the state of anxiety they’re always in and all these issues that we’re hearing a lot about. But the girls are telling me the solutions and there’s not enough focus on that. And focus on that hopeful lens. 

JoAnn Crohn: Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast. I’m your host, JoAnn Crohn joined here by the lovely Brie Tucker.

Brie Tucker: Why, hello, hello, everybody. It was, it was tough getting me on.

JoAnn Crohn: Oh my gosh, we talk in this podcast, which by the way, this episode is a must must listen. Even if you don’t have a teenage girl in your life currently, it is a healing process for your own inner teenage girl. But we talked a lot about dealing with mistakes and the messy middle and oh my gosh, did we have to deal with so much Brie

Brie Tucker: My internet has decided to play peekaboo today and we have tried everything and we’re like, is it the router? Is it the provider? Is it my laptop? What is it this time? Oh, here’s internet. Oh, no, it’s not. It’s going to go away. It is really hard people to record a podcast with a guest packed schedule.

JoAnn Crohn: oh yeah

Brie Tucker: Uh, with internet that wants to play peekaboo. 

JoAnn Crohn: my gosh. It is. It’s hard. It’s like also like anxiety inducing because you know, like Chelsey Goodan, her book is on fire right now. She is everywhere. And, she hopped on and I’m like, Brie’s not here yet. And I’m here telling myself, okay, okay. Stay cool. So I’m just here like, nicely having conversations and Chelsey is lovely. She is so lovely. And I’m like, let me check in with Brie. Because I know how the internet stuff goes. Like I know it’s totally stressful on your end.

Brie Tucker: And my texts are like, rebooting the computer, rebooting the router. Call me! You might just have to do this without me. I’m trying everything I can.

JoAnn Crohn: my gosh, but we did it. We had such an amazing discussion with Chelsey so let me introduce you to her. Chelsey Goodan is the author of the USA Today national bestseller, underestimated the power and wisdom of teenage girls, which has been endorsed by Oprah’s book club saying, if you have a teenage girl in your life, you need to read this and Amazon’s editorial director chose underestimated as her editor’s pick best nonfiction featuring it on CBS mornings. And when Chelsey was recently on today with Hoda and Jenna, they exclaimed, we couldn’t stop talking about your book. And that was the same kind of reaction that Brie and I had about the book as well. So Chelsey has been a mentor and empowerment coach to teenage girls for 16 years. She speaks regularly to audiences about gender justice, conducts workshops, and serves as the mentorship director of DemocraShe, which supports and guides girls from underserved communities into leadership positions. She’s been featured in time, Oprah daily, NBC news, and Chelsey’s passion is to explore humanity’s potential for authenticity, liberation, and empowerment. And we hope you enjoy our conversation with Chelsey. 

Chelsey, we’re so excited to have you here at the podcast. I have honestly been talking your book up so much to our Balance VIP community and how amazing it is and how it’s like a healing process for me as a mom, even though it’s about teenage girls. So we’re just so excited to have you here.

Brie Tucker: Yes 

Chelsey Goodan: Thank you for having me. So happy to be here.

JoAnn Crohn: I think it’s so interesting your perspective on this too, because a lot of parenting books, they’re written by like PhDs and researchers and people who really go into it and you have a very like almost on the street, in the trenches sort of view of this all. Tell us what your experience is working with these teenage girls. 

Chelsey Goodan: Right. Well, it is a different view because I have been invited into this super rare space of trust with these girls on this one on one time that isn’t like a therapist or a teacher, it’s a totally different dynamic. And they’ve trusted me to be their microphone or their portal for what they want to say to the world. And it’s very much like I’m their advocate. You know, I’m not a parenting expert trying to come in and tell parents like as a researcher. I’m a little bit more like the girls have told me all this, like, let me tell you all their secrets and how what they need, what they want, what and how to empower them so that they can live their best, healthiest life, right? Like everyone is so worried about them and projecting so much fear on the state of anxiety they’re always in and all these issues that we’re hearing a lot about. But the girls are telling me the solutions and there’s not enough focus on that. And focus on that hopeful lens.

Brie Tucker: It is like a secret club that you got invited to and I just want to know where that invitation lies as a mom of a teen girl. It is an elusive invite, for sure.

Chelsey Goodan: Are you ready? I’m ready. I’m going to give you the secret. I’ll give you the secret. Teenage girls feel judged. They feel judged by everyone.

Brie Tucker: I hear that. And I think as a parent, like we tend to be like, Oh, nobody’s judging you. It’s fine. And that just devalues them, right? Like it just

Chelsey Goodan: Yeah, no,

Brie Tucker: The, the worth.

Chelsey Goodan: yeah, and, and they can feel it, like you truly have to deactivate your own triggers, your own secret agenda, and be, approach them truly with a genuine curiosity, seeking to understand their point of view, giving tons of space for their voice, just listening, not jumping in with your own or positivity, and just reflecting back what they said to you, and that’s the space where they feel seen, and heard, and understood, and not judged. And when that happens, that’s when all the beautiful things happen and they start sharing because they feel emotionally safe, psychologically safe, because, really, we project a ton of shame onto girls, too, and not, not intentionally. You know, by the way, I know parents are super well intentioned. It’s just that we have our own baggage, our own wounds from our teenage years, and we, and that’s what, it’s connected to our own insecurities, and we project onto a teenage girl, often our own story. And she’s often like, that’s not my story!

Brie Tucker: my god, we hear that all the time, don’t we, JoAnn? 

JoAnn Crohn: Oh yeah, yeah, 

Brie Tucker: You don’t know what it’s like to be a teen

JoAnn Crohn: We don’t know what it’s like, but so like the thing I loved in your book, Chelsey, is like, first of all, you said that we have to disarm our own triggers. And while I was reading it, it makes me realize that the stuff that we put up with as adult women, we’re then projecting also onto our teenage girls.

Like this statement in particular, I was like, Oh my gosh. You say “adults on the other hand, find themselves sharing something vulnerable and then patiently listening to other people’s advice, judgment, positive spin, minimization, and moral lessons, all the while flashing a fake smile and shoving their annoyed resentments deep into their soul only to be unearthed during the explosion of a midlife crisis.” I can not tell you how much I was like, YES!

Chelsey Goodan: And what if instead of us all unpacking that baggage and therapy in our 30s and 40s and so on that we actually moved upstream and helped not create these wounds in the first place? I think we could change the trajectory for all women.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. Because it’s so true, like what we expect our teenage girls and Brie and I, you know, we both have teenage daughters and I catch myself doing this too. I catch myself sharing my opinion and then she gets mad and then I think, well, like I have to like put my fake smile on and I have to play nice and then I get mad at her for that. But then I feel bad that I’m like, it’s such a cycle. It is such a cycle. 

Brie Tucker: It’s a cycle of shame and it’s hard.

Chelsey Goodan: and people pleasing and perfectionism and all these ideas that we need to be perfect and likable and put on a show, a performance, that everything’s okay and I’m okay and we’re not creating space for women, you know, not just girls, to have displeasing feelings that are normal human emotions. Things like anger, and frustration, and disappointment. And, you know, when girls don’t have space for that, they think of it as bad when they have those emotions. They are a bad person. They absorb it into their character. And then that’s why they shove it down and squash it too, when actually, no, it’s okay. It’s sometimes completely reasonable to be upset and angry about things sometimes, you know? And we just need someone to be like, yeah! That sucks. I get it. 

JoAnn Crohn: It does suck. I want to talk to you a little bit about choice and when we give kids choice, because in the parenting world, choice is such a loaded statement because the choices that most parenting experts say to give kids, they’re not really choices at all. They’re like, you do this one or you do this one where there might be like another option, like way over here in left field that we’re not even considering. 

Chelsey Goodan: Exactly. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: Tell me where choice really fits into our relationship with teenage girls. 

Chelsey Goodan: And teenage girls specifically are just starving for agency. Having a say in things. Having their voice considered. And being a part of the conversation. Because the book is the wisdom, right? And power of teenage girls. So I always say phrase everything as a question where you really, honestly, one of my main go to’s is just “what do you think about that?” “What do you, you know, what are your thoughts?” And then I’ll, you know, I’ll expand. How would you, how would you handle this? What do you think the solution is here? And, you know, I might have an idea in my head, but honestly, there are solutions. I’m always like, Oh, I hadn’t thought of that. That’s a really good idea.

And, you know, And when she does it, when she gets the agency and choice to try her own idea, then when it goes well, she’s super empowered and she starts feeling that self trust of like, Oh, I make smart choices. I’m capable of this. My parent trusts me to make smart choices. And, let’s say she doesn’t make maybe the best choice you thought she should make, right, and it’s painful to watch.

That being said, when it is her choice, it’s also her mistake to learn from. And she will learn it more sincerely, rather than if we just project everything onto her, trying to buffer bad choices. She’s not going to learn anything. And they need that dynamic space to make mistakes where it’s safe. And, again, with girls in particular, there’s not a lot of room for them to make mistakes. They absorb it into their identity as if they’re a failure. 

Whereas I see a difference when I’m working with boys. Boys are like, whatever, I made a mistake. Like, they don’t see it as this huge issue the way that the girls do. And, And I think, again, it’s back to that perfection and likability that a mistake is going to tell the world that they’re not going to succeed or, you know, they have all this messaging that’s going on inside their head.

But if we’re just like, give them that space to make choices, good, bad, whatever it might be, but a safe environment to do it. And then affirm them. I’m always like, that was a smart idea. Oh my gosh. look how well that went for you. And that affirmation is so important for them to truly absorb. Oh, okay. I made a good choice. I can trust myself to do this.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, well it’s so interesting like watching my daughter make choices because she, I would love for her to be more confident in her choices and she gets into this place where she can’t make a choice. She has too many options and she does internalize that whole, I’m a failure, if I make the wrong choice, it’ll be horrible, everything like that. So, like, watching her go through that is a hard thing. So if you have a kid like that, who is just so almost incapacitated by choices, what’s something you could do to kind of guide them along and help them through it. 

Chelsey Goodan: Well, I like to make sure they know that it’s not so black and white, right? Like, I talk about the gray zone in binaries. Either I’m going to make the best choice or I’m going to make the wrong choice. And I love to explore that middle gray zone, space with them and name it for them. Okay, well, you know, you have all these choices. And I, of course, I’m always reinforcing that there is no true right and no true wrong. And that these, you know, we’re always trying to go zero to 10 and I talk in language with them about step three, four, five, those middle zone steps and how that’s usually where we’re existing and it’s a great place to exist and I bring a lot of positivity to that space rather than just purely achievement focus. So often we’re just trying to always get to 10 and always do the best. And instead, you know, it’s about giving a lot of good positive energy to that middle ground.

JoAnn Crohn: That’s a good thing. Brie and I were actually just discussing that teenagers are very black and white if we don’t pay any attention to that middle ground. Like it’s either horrible or it’s good and it’s crazy to help them get out of it. I like, there’s so much good stuff in your book and I cannot wait to dig into more. And I remember specifically how we don’t have as much control over our kids actions as we think and their feelings. And let’s get into that right after this. 

So we were talking before about giving teens choice and living more in that middle ground and not so much black and white. you have a great suggestion too about how to model that middle ground. What should we do there?

Chelsey Goodan: Yeah. And we are modeling all the time. Don’t, don’t underestimate how much that matters. And that I like to say out loud, Oh, I’m just going to hold some space for imperfection right now. And I’m just going to do this imperfectly and that’s okay. You know, just kind of bring levity to it also, where, again, it’s not a part of your character, you’re not beating yourself up in front of them, where you’re like, Oh, I could have done that better.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. They do. They see all of it. And I noticed it too, when they then, they emulate it. They like, you see them go through something and you’re like, Oh, those words coming out of my kid’s mouth. I said that, that’s my mirror. 

Brie Tucker: And also you see, not only do you see your kids emulating you, but you also find yourself sometimes oh, crap, I’m turning into my mother. That’s exactly what I remember her saying to me when I was 15.

Chelsey Goodan: Well, to honor the title of your podcast, No Guilt Moms, like I, it’s not something to then beat yourself up about more, right, and feel guilty about. It’s just like our humanity that we need to just have a lot more empathy and care around that. Hey, this is, we’re going to not do things perfectly because that perfection doesn’t exist.

JoAnn Crohn: No, it doesn’t exist. And we can’t protect our kids from choices they make either. That’s something that I hear go around a lot in the parenting world, especially in regards to screens and screen time. There’s all these like rules and boundaries you’re supposed to put against your kids to kind of protect them from bad choices, but it goes to the extreme. And I love how in your book, it talks about you need to have this release of perceived control. Can you talk about this perceived control?

Chelsey Goodan: Yeah, because the truth is, the more you try to control, a teenage girl specifically, the more she is going to put all the walls up, shut you out, have the exact same, the exact opposite reaction to what you So, you know, the truth is, meeting her where she’s at, loving her with exactly who she’s, and not so often not even just trying to control or see also teach her what’s best. And that teaching also feels like criticism to her where she’s well, I’m just not good enough. Guess I can’t do anything right. You know, it’s the back to that judgment. And, you know, in terms of even social media choices or clothing choices or all these, you know, hard terrains to navigate, she wants to be a part of the conversation like I said, and so it’s usually like “Well, what would be a healthy dynamic for you?” You know, what, “how would you like to handle this?” I bring it back to those questions, whether it is social media or understanding why she wants to wear that outfit. Like, oh, cool. How does it make you feel? Like, I just want to understand better, you know, so that she feels when she feels understood and that she’s heard that is when a true communication exchange happens rather than a control dynamic, which I find shuts the conversation down.

JoAnn Crohn: And like something I realized to Chelsey is that, this has brought up so much for me, by the way. So I have a lot to unpack, but,I feel lonely when people try to teach me or when they put like minimizing stuff to my feelings or say you should do that. I just feel like lonely. And I was thinking this and I’m like, maybe my daughter feels lonely as well. And so we were sitting in the car the other day and she was describing how she didn’t know if she wanted to run for student council president for next year. And normally I’d be like, “Oh, you know, just give it a try.” Or like, “Oh, it’s okay to drop it if you want to.” But because of your book. I sat there with her. I sat in her hole. It was like, I like Maggie with Perspectacles. She’s on social media. She says, you know, go into somebody’s hole and sit with them there. I sat in her hole with her and I was just like, tell me what you’re thinking.what are your different viewpoints? And it made all the difference. She just was like, You could see her whole stature just kind of raise up as she told me the differing things. And it’s really what you’re saying about staying in that middle ground with them, the messy middle.

Chelsey Goodan: Aw, I love that. And you’re so right because it helps her find the solution for herself. What actually is right for her. Because back to control, we actually don’t know what’s right for everybody else in the world. They are experiencing a whole different world inside their head and inside their emotions. And we don’t always know what’s best. And, but when we can sit with them and be like, well, what do you think? How would you let, you know, and so on how you just did with her about that. She can. it lands all of a sudden. She’s wait, no, okay, I guess I was scared about this, but you know what? I can get over that. And she, you can see them processing and having that space to process to figure out what, what’s right for them.

JoAnn Crohn: Totally. And you touched a little bit about teenage girls and outfits. And, I wanted to shift the conversation a little bit to dress code and, telling teens what to wear. Something that I found really interesting, what you said is that today’s teenage girls, they see themselves as being able to do both. They can wear clothes that make them feel good. They can put themselves out there. They can be concerned about beauty and they can be really smart, really intelligent. Whereas like the generation I was raised in, which I proudly geriatric millennial, um, and that’s what they’re call us. Geriatric millennials. Yeah.

Brie Tucker: Ouch! 

JoAnn Crohn: Isn’t that funny. 

Brie Tucker: Ouch! Oh my God, that’s painful. 

JoAnn Crohn: But, our, Our wave of like feminism was like we don’t care about our looks. We don’t care about what we’re wearing.

Chelsey Goodan: right, right. Wear the baggy shirt, hide it. Just, I’m smart. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: so what have you seen here with like teens like really claiming? 

Chelsey Goodan: Yeah and I do bring it up in the book that this wave of feminism is that women can be all things. We can be pretty and smart, you know, we can do, and it seems obvious, but by saying it out loud you realize how much we do hold ourselves back in these environments and we worry about it, and Gen Z doesn’t feel that way. Gen Z is wait, what? They really don’t actually get all the limitations we had been putting on ourselves. And, and what happens though in terms of clothes is usually whenever we do try to control or comment on their clothes is they just only take it as shame. That’s it. They are not like, oh, that’s fine. It’s a smart idea. I guess you’re right. They’re just like, Oh, thanks for shaming my body. 

And my, because a girl’s relationship to her clothes is actually a huge exploration of identity. And this is the time of their life where they are trying to explore their identity. And the clothes is literally one of the best routes for them to do that. So just because she’s wearing this one day, it doesn’t mean she’s going to wear it forever. Like she actually might just be exploring and be like, wait, what does that bring out of you? Do I like that? You know, and having some sense of safety around that would be great. Like safety, emotional safety. 

Brie Tucker: it’s so like, it’s interesting to bring this up. I’m going to go a slight offshoot just for a second from where I think JoAnn was going with this, but like, my daughter, sometimes she is like all about like short shorts and crop tops and I’ll admit, you know, it makes prudish mom a little bit like makes me feel prudish, even though I don’t think I, am. and I and I see her dad get very very upset about it because in their household, that’s just definitely not okay. But I find if I don’t say a stinking word, by the next day, we’re to like the baggy sweats and like slipper shoes. And I’m all like, okay, so it isn’t about her because I feel like sometimes again, we’re bringing in our old thing of Oh, they’re trying to be older than they are. They’re trying to like, and again, we’re bringing, like you just said, we’re bringing in our own thoughts, our own baggage into that conversation, and they are a million light years away from that.

I have, like, asked, like, you know, well, why do you like this? Why do you like that? And, hearing her, and knowing that it’s, it’s all about being able to have that control. And being able to express herself is huge. So backing off of the whole like, But I can see your bra straps! Is that the end of the world?

Chelsey Goodan: Well, the bra strap situation, I mean, girls get sent home from dress codes on bra straps, and I’m at the stage where I’m like, are we that scared of a bra strap? cause what it tells a girl is that that her body is dangerous, that she’s responsible for boys, and what they’re thinking, and all the blame is on her, and that, you know, and by the way, boys will wear their pants lower than their boxers, showing their boxers they do not get sent home for dress codes ever, right? And ,I’m just a little over all the commentary on the girls have to handle on, in, on this front. And I mean, this is what they tell me. Are you getting, all they want me to tell the world is about dress codes and slut shaming. Like they love when I talk about this on things like podcasts. 

JoAnn Crohn: Because it’s happening every day. And like, like, the biggest one that I get so mad at is that the way a girl dresses, she invites attention on herself. And I really want to get into that right after this break.

Let’s dig into this comment, usually by the older generation, where a girl is like dressing a certain way and she’s just going to bring all this unwanted attention. And Chelsey, go! Because I know

Chelsey Goodan: Well, where the attention should be placed is teaching our boys what healthy, respectful sexuality would be, and not to objectify and sexualize the women and the girls in their life. Like, we can teach boys to be better. I don’t understand why the girls have to handle all of this. And, you know, I’m on the board of a non profit called A Call to Men, which is all about teaching that respectful, healthy masculinity to men and boys. And we’re underestimating the boys and their ability to do this as well. and, you know, if we’re talking about gender based violence, It’s actually a male issue. And where’s that coming from? Rather than we’ve always called it violence against women as if it was their problem to solve. And if women could have ended gender based violence by now, we would have done it right? 

JoAnn Crohn: Totally. Totally.

Chelsey Goodan: No, we need the participation of men and understanding where this is coming from. So this whole idea that the girl has to literally adjust her clothing to make sure she’s not asking for it is such a problem. And again, All it does is create shame for the girl.

JoAnn Crohn: I’m interested, what do you do, because I feel like schools hide behind language of, it’s not professional dress, and that’s how they kind of justify sending a girl home for showing a bra strap or having a skirt that’s not long enough for their guidelines. How do you recommend going up against that?

Chelsey Goodan: Right. I mean, oh gosh, as much as I want to, you know, change all the systems that are broken in the world, which I do, um, I, you know, I have had luck of, I always love when a girl does advocacy within her own school, whether it’s the literature they’re reading or the dress code or sex education curriculum, I’ve had a lot of girls do really cool going to the administration and speaking up and, and whether she’s successful or not, the actually act of her doing it and making her voice heard is so empowering, right? So I always, uh, encourage her to do it rather than necessarily a parent kind of storming in. That being said, there can be some things that are an issue that I think it’s totally valid for a parent to be like, Hey, we do not support this, right? And, you know, a lot of people don’t understand how bad sex education curriculum is these days too. I mean, 

Brie Tucker: Oh God. 

Chelsey Goodan: Only 18 states require that it be medically accurate. Only 11 states require that consent be taught. So that explains a lot, again, how we’re not helping boys in 

Brie Tucker: you don’t want to know what Arizona’s criteria is. 

JoAnn Crohn: I, was a fifth grade teacher and I could tell you so we split the class into boys and girls. We weren’t allowed to talk about sex at all. I had to teach the fifth grade boys. I’m not allowed to put anything additional. Like I have to read verbatim from a binder. Now this was 10 years ago, but I mean, That is it. That is all they get. And all they got in fifth grade was like, this is your penis. Like, that’s it! Like, just bodily stuff.

Chelsey Goodan: Yeah, yeah. And the girls learn about their period and then that’s it. And they don’t even know how to name the correct anatomy. It’s a lot. It, I, and I, the reason I’ve gotten more passionate about it again is because the girls keep telling me that they want this. So, you know, I did three workshops of girls last week and I presented like 32 different issues for them of what they wanted to dive into.

And literally every single workshop, every girl in it was like, sex education, please, sex education. Like they, and it’s not because they’re like, everyone’s so worried if you teach them about sex, they’re going to go off and just have lots of sex. That’s not the case. These girls are. Super responsible. They’re super smart. They actually just want to make healthy choices and they need information.

Brie Tucker: Yeah. 

JoAnn Crohn: They do! And it’s so funny that like reasoning because it’s like you don’t do stuff based on like information. You do stuff based on lack of information because you’re experimenting with it and figuring out like, Okay, well, let’s try this one or let’s try this one.

Chelsey Goodan: Yeah, but actually a couple girls on those workshops were like my friend got pregnant and she’s dealing with a teen pregnancy right now And she was so upset for her friend and she was like she didn’t know about birth control I was like, oh my gosh, just the foundations and 

Brie Tucker: Yeah. The stories from my high school, ridiculous. and I, I had, did have, I had several friends who ended up having like, Pregnancies in high school from like the craziest, again, not having knowledge. But one of them, after, she went to Planned Parenthood and and got on the pill, her mom threw them out the window and said, you’re never going to need this anymore because you’re not having sex again. And I’m like, oh yeah. Cause that works. 

JoAnn Crohn: works 

Chelsey Goodan: not 

JoAnn Crohn: well. Yeah.

Chelsey Goodan: Oh.

Brie Tucker: exactly. It didn’t work. I can tell you firsthand. It didn’t help. Nope. Nope. not not one out of the six of us that were best friends were like, oh yes. Yep. Wait, that’s the route we’re gonna go. No.

JoAnn Crohn: No.

Chelsey Goodan: back to that control and how it actually creates the opposite effect where they’re actually just gonna rebel and not like you and make choices that are not informed well because they don’t have the information. 

Brie Tucker: they’re doing it just to buck the system, right? Because I just want to be seen, I just want to be heard, and if this is how I have to be seen and heard.

Chelsey Goodan: Well, and then this is where we are underestimating them too, like the girls do make really responsible choices. I mean, they’ve talked to me a lot. I mean, even the quotes in that sexuality chapter I have in the book, these girls are giving really wise quotes about these issues, and that’s again why I try to amplify their voices in this book, because we’re underestimating how smart they are.

JoAnn Crohn: Oh yeah, I think like, all of our children are completely underestimated how smart they are. And we as adults don’t give them enough, we don’t give them enough credit. We think that we can make all their decisions because we’re the adults and it just doesn’t work. Work out that way and Chelsey, I just, I’ve loved your entire book.I think everybody should go out and get it. what right now, besides doing this book, well, maybe it’s in relation to the book. What, what exciting is going on for you right now? What are you looking forward to?

Chelsey Goodan: Well, yeah, I’m still in the heart of the press tour and, you know, and all the news shows and stuff, which I’ve loved. And, honestly, the best thing that’s been happening is that I’ve been getting DMs and feedback from women across the country reading this book. And it’s just filled my heart up with, like, all I wanted to do is make a difference.

So, please follow me on Instagram. Let me know that you’re reading it. By the way, this is so perfect for a book club, for a mom book club. The way that the chapters are structured, where it’s like people blazing, self doubt, shame, power, the media, beauty, you know, all issues that we’re all grappling with. And we all have something to say about whether you’ve read the chapter or not. And it’s, it creates community among moms. Also moms reading it with their teenage daughter has been really cool creating conversations that way. So I’m really excited about that ripple effect.

JoAnn Crohn: Ooh, I should recommend it to my daughter. 

Brie Tucker: I was gonna say, I have to say one of my favorites also is like howfor, for like the ADHD brain, at the end of every chapter you have core insights. It’s like, Hey, remember how you like, you enjoyed this? Here’s the main things I want you to take away from the the, the And it has a quote from a girl that really like helps bring it together. So I already told you this book is being sent to you. Somebody special in my life 

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah 

Brie Tucker: help give them some insights. Insights on a 

JoAnn Crohn: anonymous the anonymous little package on his doorstep. No Chelsey, thank you so much for joining us

Chelsey Goodan: Oh, both of you are so wonderful. Thank you for amplifying these issues and having people hear them. It’s so important. It’s a really good thing you’re doing. 

Brie Tucker: Thank you for the work you’re doing. Yes. 

JoAnn Crohn: and go and get Chelsey’s book underestimated the wisdom and power of teenage girls even if you don’t have a teenage girl right now in your life You you might in the future and it’s a healing process for you, as an adult woman as

Chelsey Goodan: Yeah, the healing your own inner teenage girl is really the heart of the book.

Brie Tucker: Right. 

JoAnn Crohn: So thank you so much, Chelsey. 

So Chelsey isn’t kidding when she says these are really great topics to bring up with your teenage girls, because I was bringing up the whole sexuality chapter with my daughter and about how, you know, it’s called this violence against women instead of violence by men. And I asked her, I asked her opinion on this.

And she’s like, yeah, and, my son was sitting right next to us and I’m like, yeah, well, not all men are bad. And she told me in her wisdom of her teenage years, yeah,not all men are bad, but it is all, no, what did she say? I can’t remember it. Do you

Brie Tucker: You did tell me about this. I’m remembering the story now. Not all men are bad, but all

JoAnn Crohn: No, it’s not all men, but all of it is men like that’s it because you see these crimes and the violence perpetrated by men it is all I mean rapes. They’re all men. So it’s interesting seeing that

Brie Tucker: It’s Yeah, I think the hard part is like what you, what we talked about in the podcast, which is how It’s all placed on the girl there and she and Chelsey talks about that in her book like in general like so much pressure is on our teenage just from my my looking inside looking from outside the fishbowl in I feel like our teenage girls told that, you know, a, like you just said, their job to make sure that they don’t, put themselves in a position where a boy did something like that. Cause it was all her fault because she was in that position way certain way. So that violence bullshit, right there. But then also like the pressure that they have to, like girls being told that, We did so much for you to move forward with feminism.

You need to keep that Marchand so they feel like they have all of this pressure that they have to carry on for everybody. They have to make the right choices, but they can’t make them too loudly. And she talked about the whole, like how girls these days can dress nicely and care about their looks and how we were told, kind of like the message when we were younger that well, if you care about your looks and you’re being vain and they’re like,

JoAnn Crohn: you’re shallow.

Brie Tucker: right. and I can tell you, like, I definitely struggled with that as a teen so much, so trying to figure out where I fit in and I didn’t really fit into any one area. And like where I grew up, they were very big clicks and it was like, I would try to dress like, for instance, I was trying to be, more of like grungy, but I got refused by the grungy people because I wasn’t banned.

But then when I would go into band, I was refused by those people because I hung out with the skateboarders and then like, it just, the skaters, not skateboarders. I just, I felt like I never really fit anywhere. And if I. And if I did do my makeup and my hair, then I would get shunned by certain people. And if I didn’t do it well enough, I’d get shunned by other people. And it was like, I never could.

JoAnn Crohn: You can never find your fit. Yeah. And I look at that and I’m like, I think like it’s everybody, everybody would say that they could never find their fit. And it’s because putting themselves in like such narrow types that like, it’s so interesting because when I saw my daughter, like, she likes to look at makeup tutorials, like I had a genuine fear and I’m like, Oh my gosh, she’s concentrating on the wrong 

Brie Tucker: Cause that’s what we were told. 

JoAnn Crohn: Yes, and i’ve overcome that and i’ve realized that is my thinking and my triggers and honestly I’ve learned a lot of great makeup and skin stuff from my daughter and like I look better today because of her influence But it’s so funny how those things just pop up and you don’t even realize how big of an impact They’re making on you and your

Brie Tucker: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, again, like coming back, so, so I can’t articulate enough how much I love this book, but what I do love so, so, so much about it is that It’s most of the information is coming from the kids as coming from the teenage girls. And it’s when we stop trying to fix it, when we stop trying to mold them into who we think they should be, and we actually ask them about their ideas and their situations and their solutions and what they’re feeling and what’s going on.

And we don’t. Judge them or tell them that they are incorrect and it’s funny, I got to throw into that too, like, because I feel like sometimes as parents, especially as well meaning parents will be like, Oh, like we said in the episode, they really feel like everybody is judging them. And I think part of that is, is somewhat true.

The society we’re in right now, like their social media. There’s a lot more judgment that is fast and furious going on than what we had growing up with the whole F around and find out what happens in the 90s and 80s where we could hide things. we’ll hear what’s going on and they’ll say like, Oh, so and so must be thinking I’m an idiot now.

And we’re like, Oh, no, no. Cause we know that they probably aren’t, but right there, that’s your feelings are not valid. What you’re feeling isn’t true. And what you just said to me isn’t important enough for me to stop and listen

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah,

Brie Tucker: not what we mean. What we’re trying to do is help make it better.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, and that

Brie Tucker: No, so it’s been a hard lesson. You and I struggle with this a lot because we both have two kids. I have two teens right now, 17 year old son just turned 17 year old daughter. And I have had to learn so much in terms of for both of them of just trying to stop fixing. And trying to start listening and meeting them where they are.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, it’s a hard lesson for sure. I get accused all the time by my daughter that not everything has to be a lesson, mom. And I’m like, oh, well, there’s the teaching element. Here we go. And it’s hard to take, I want to cry. every time she says that, last night, even, we’ve gotten to a thing, and she told me, basically she told me off that I made her feel bad. and I was just like, okay, I’m just not going to share my opinion. And I, that was rather passive aggressive of me, but then I just shut up and shutting up was the best thing I did in that circumstance, not crying, not making it a big deal, just shutting up. And sometimes that’s the only thing we can do when we’re so like, when our teens tell us something and, we feel like we have been not humbled, but we feel like we’ve been attacked and we feel the need to defend ourselves. I think sometimes shutting up is the best solution. which is hard. Yeah.

Brie Tucker: my go to on that one, I think, is I just say I’m processing. Cause I 

JoAnn Crohn: Mm hmm. Yeah, 

Brie Tucker: I’m pro I’m like, and, cause sometimes, it, the lash, they lash at you, and then they’re like, Why? Why are you being quiet now? What’s your, you’re mad at me now, aren’t you? And you’re like, I’m processing. Give me some time, I’m processing. 

JoAnn Crohn: I’m processing. that’s a good one That’s a good one. I’m gonna try

Brie Tucker: Cause I’m trying to figure out if I’m going to, go scream, cry, or eat a pint of ice cream. I’m not sure which right now, but one of them’s going to happen. I’ve just got to figure out which one’s coming first.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, 

Brie Tucker: So yeah so go get Chelsey’s book. This is phenomenal. 

JoAnn Crohn: Get Chelsey’s book and remember the best mom’s a happy mom take care of you and we’ll talk to you later

Brie Tucker: Thanks for stopping by.