Podcast Episode 318: 3 Myths About Productivity Hacks That Keep You Stuck in a Toxic Cycle Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

JoAnn Crohn 

Welcome to the No Guilt Mom Podcast. I’m your host JoAnn Crohn joined here by the lovely Brie Tucker.

Brie Tucker 

Why hello, hello, everybody, how are you?

JoAnn Crohn 

We have such a good podcast episode for you today. As I was reading this woman’s book Toxic Productivity, I was like, it’s me, it’s me and I’m so excited to begin this conversation because I have a feeling you out there in podcast land will find a lot of similarities to yourself as well.

Brie Tucker 

can’t help but have gone straight to the, it’s me, hi, I’m the problem, it’s me. I’m like, and it’s funny you’re saying about the whole toxic productivity because I totally believe that that is a huge thing that is just not spoken about, but telling our audience, I kept unconsciously changing the title of today’s episode from toxic productivity to toxic positivity.

JoAnn Crohn 

Hi, I’m… Yeah.

They are and all I can think of with toxic is a Britney Spears song comes in my head, the toxic song, but I won’t mention it because I don’t get there. knew as soon as I said it, I knew that was going to be the answer. OK, so we’re going to. We are going to introduce our guest. Israa Nasir is a New York City based psychotherapist, writer and the founder of Well Guide, a digital community for mental health awareness.

A Pakistani Canadian child of immigrants, she has a specific focus on mental health, identity formation and healing for the AAPI first and second generation immigrant community. Israa has been featured in NBC, Fox, HuffPost and Teen Vogue. And we know that you are going to love our conversation with her. So let’s get on with the show.

INTRO MUSIC

JoAnn Crohn 

Welcome to the podcast, Israa. I am so excited to dig into this subject of toxic productivity because I feel it out there, but you have just given it such an amazing name it to tame it name. So welcome to the podcast.

Israa Nasir 

Thank you for that lovely introduction. I love the energy on this podcast. I’m very excited to dive into this. I always have mixed feelings when people say they’re related to the book because part of me is like, yay, what I wrote is relevant. And the other part of me is like, no, what I wrote is relevant. And so I’m happy to chat about this.

JoAnn Crohn 

Ha ha!

Brie Tucker 

Wait!

It’s funny, but at least everybody, you know, it’s one of those things where you’re like, yay, we relate. crap, we’re all suffering. So yeah.

JoAnn Crohn 

Well, it’s true. I remember like two or three years ago when we were getting ready to move and find a new house, like me and my family were moving closer to where my daughter went to high school. And we were touring like these houses and I would go into these kids rooms and I would see all these signs on the walls that’s like hustle first or like no pain, no gain. And I’m like, this doesn’t feel right. So Israa, Can you tell us like what is toxic productivity?

Israa Nasir 

Yeah, so the concept of happens when our relationship to the things that we do crosses over like a threshold of being beneficial and helpful, not just in the long term, but also in the short term, but also in the long term. And it moves from that place into being helpful in the short term and over time becomes very harmful. And so, that’s like a very convoluted long way of saying that what we do

becomes very central to our identity. And so therefore, everything we do becomes equally important. And when normal natural things like failure and mistakes happen, we take it personally to our being and our productivity becomes a priority in our life. Over our wellness, our health, our relationships, everything becomes secondary and we start to measure how good we feel about ourselves with the things that we do. So it’s really just like a very unhealthy relationship to outcomes and achievements.

Brie Tucker

So I have to say right there, does anybody else feel like that you just described our childhood? Like I feel like that’s what it was growing up in the, right? In our generation, we were told you can do anything as long as you hustle and work hard for it. As long as you do your best all the time.

Brie Tucker

and you should come home with like straight A’s. I feel like that was like a huge message from like the boomer generation onto their kids. And what do you think?

Israa Nasir  

Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn 

Well, also like I feel that that message is still perpetuated because a lot of times we hear from parents about wanting their kids to try their best at school. And what they mean by this is the child will come home and is doing really well in one subject, but maybe they’re doing like a C in another subject. And they’re like, we just want to make sure you’re doing the best you can and you’re trying your best. And what you said right there, Israa is like giving equal weight.

to all the different things in our lives just isn’t possible, especially like the message we give our kids, the things we do ourselves, like all of the things on our to-do list. What do you feel right now, Israa, are some of the mistakes and the common myths that people have about productivity that’s like making it toxic?

Israa Nasir  

I just want to like reference a point you made earlier, for sure, like post-Boomer, Gen X, millennial, even Gen Z to some degree in their own way. We were definitely raised in this like myth of meritocracy and that taps into toxic productivity really, really well. And know, like millennials are now parents, they are leaders in companies, they’re managers, they’re decision makers. And so you’re seeing this like mass burnout across the board because we do believe that if you work hard, you’re going to do well, like guaranteed. But that’s just absolutely not, it was true for the boomers perhaps, but it’s not true in the world right now at all. Some of the common productivity myths that keep us trapped in this mindset. One is very, very prominent, especially for women. And that one is multitasking makes me more productive. If you are a parent, if you are sandwich generations who caring for elderly as well as your own kids, you might even pride yourself in being a multitasker. And people often say, women are naturally good at multitasking. That’s just not true because the human brain cannot multitask period. Like it’s just not a thing that we can do. What ends up happening is we’re switching between tasks so fast that we think we’re in parallel process, but we’re not. And it really causes you cognitive burnout. Like you become very frazzled, you become very overwhelmed, you become very dysregulated. And that’s where you see all of these like, you know, like mom memes around mental load and like just being super frazzled. And I think it’s because we have been sold a lie that we can be multitasking. So that’s one really big one. Another is that

Brie Tucker

Yep.

JoAnn Crohn 

Mm-hmm.

Israa Nasir 

you know, the way I am productive is exactly how you’re going to be productive, Bri. And you’re going to be Joanne. Like we are all these three completely distinct women with different biologies, different backgrounds, different racial backgrounds as well, different lifestyles, right? Like all of us have different lifestyles, but we’re all going to be productive the same way. That means we’re all going to wake up at the same time and we’re all going to do the same wellness things. And, and your workouts are going to work for me and my work is going to work for you. That’s just a myth.

Right? The 5 a.m. club. Yeah, the 5 a.m. club is a lie. Yeah, it does work for some people and we need to respect that, but it is not for everybody. And I hate this idea that it’s not for me either. know, like I definitely had to, and I would recommend this to everybody, just pay a little bit of attention to your body’s natural rhythms and you’ll notice the times that you are your best.

Brie Tucker

Right? Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn 

It’s just a myth. Yeah. It’s such a lie.

Brie Tucker 

the 5 a.m. Club.Yeah. Not for me.

Israa Nasir  

and you might be really creative and problem solving in the morning, do all of that work in the morning. Don’t do emails first thing. But if you’re more creative and problem solving in the afternoon, do your emails first, because they don’t require a lot of creative thinking, right? And so yeah, so those are the…

JoAnn Crohn 

Mm-hmm.

Brie Tucker 

Yeah, like two to four is my sweet spot. Yeah.

Israa Nasir  

Yeah, same, same actually. Yeah, I can go into other myths as well, but I think that there’s one more that I definitely want to talk about, which is busy means productive. Like it does not, right? You can fill up your calendar, you can do a million things.

JoAnn Crohn 

Mm-hmm. It does not. No. There’s so much busyness in the world too. Like going back to your first myth, cause you mentioned the mental load and this lie that we’ve all been told about multitasking. And I have actually a question for you that I feel like will open up a bit of a can of worms with our audience. Because a lot of social media is talking right now about mom’s mental load and how more people need to come in and help mom with the stuff. But I also think, that we as women have control over our mental load. And I don’t think that that is talked about enough, that control we might have. This whole abandoning of this myth that we can be multitasking and changes that we can make within ourselves that don’t require any extra effort from the people around us, but rather something internally. And I want to hear your thoughts on that right after this.

So talking about this mental load, Israa, do you think that it is possible for people to have control over their own mental load, to be able to affect it in some aspect versus having to like push this onto our partners or our husbands to relieve the mental load from us?

Israa Nasir  

Absolutely. So I think almost every circumstance has a level of accountability, barring like extenuating, you know, tragic, abusive, trauma circumstances. Outside of that, we have agency and accountability in almost every situation that we are in. And so when it comes to the mental load, one of the things I really like to talk about, and this is not just relevant if you’re a mom, I think this falls on the unfortunate like gender binary.

You know where people will say things like well women are just good at doing this and when they’re just good to doing that one of the things that keeps us trapped in a mental load scenario is thinking that we are the only ones who know how to do it the right way and believing Yeah, believing that there is a right way for everything that can look like very trivial things like loading the dishwasher how the cushions need to be

JoAnn Crohn 

Hmm.

Israa Nasir  

And you know, like jumping off on some memes from the internet, number of pillows on your bed. So like, you know, like there’s this idea that there’s a right way to do these things. That right way is my way to do this and it must be done to perfection. So when we think about, like there’s only one way to do things, the underlying emotional mechanism is perfectionism, right? And we need to relinquish control over that perfectionism. And so if you’re male family member, is loading the dishwasher in a way that is just making your insides fall apart. You need to learn how to manage that. Like you need to regulate your emotions. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn

Yeah.

Brie Tucker 

Right? Okay, that’s a bit of a mic drop moment. I think every single one of us can relate to that time where we are standing there and we are watching a member of our family do something and it is killing us. We’re like, what? mean, we just like either take it over or I don’t know. Matter of fact, like this exactly happened to me last night with my daughter and I kept interfering with something she was trying to handle and God bless her, she was trying to be an adult and handle talking to somebody with their order and she was having a problem with the way they were taking her order. And I kept butting in. Finally, she turned around, she’s like, mom, stop it. And as soon as she said that, I’m like, my God, she was doing it fine. I mean, it wasn’t my way and it really wasn’t the best way, but she at least was getting there. And why didn’t I just shut up? Like sometimes we just can’t. help ourselves from popping in there.

JoAnn Crohn

Well, I think that is right. Like you make a great point. It is your emotional. You say in your book that your inner critical advice was the voice of your emotional foundation. And one of the things that you said, Israael was perfectionism. Is there anything else that might be contributing to this idea that only we know how to do the things we do? or tell us more about perfectionism too.

Israa Nasir  

Gosh, yeah, I think that a lot of times, if you are raised in a very overachieving environment, you naturally start to over function because you believe that your value in your family unit or your workplace or your relational unit is dependent on how much you can produce. How good of a parent, how good of a worker, a friend, sister, whatever can you be, that determines how much you take on.

And so when we over function, that also creates this idea that other people are not good enough. Like only I know how to do this because I’ve been doing it for so long. it’s just easier. How many times have you heard, it’s easier for me to just do it instead of explain it to you, right? I know we’ve all used that phrase. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that’s exactly, but that’s.

JoAnn Crohn 

Yes. That’s me. That’s me

Brie Tucker

Let me look at my calendar. Every day, every day.

JoAnn Crohn 

Every day.

Israa Nasir  

And so that, know what that does is it puts us in a double bind. Not only does it disable the person from thinking that they are competent in doing X number of things. So they will now just leave it to you in their mind. Your daughter or your partner will just be like, yeah, like that. They’re going to take care of it. I’m not good at it. And the other thing it does is it starts to further deepen your core belief that only you can do this. And so you start believing that you can’t say no.

JoAnn Crohn 

Mm-hmm.

Israa Nasir  

You can’t have boundaries. You can’t go and take a break, right? Like you start believing all of these things that contribute to being toxically productive, which eventually lead to burnout, not just in the workplace, but even in your relationships.

JoAnn Crohn 

Yeah, so like this perfectionism ideal, which is the belief that there is only one quote unquote right way to do things could be contributing to this toxic productivity, as well as this overachieving which my gosh, as soon as you said that I’m like, I feel like my worth is on everything I achieve. This is where I fall into the productivity trap as well. And so that could have an impact as well. So if you’re listening right now and you’re like, my gosh, This is me, like we, me and Bri are definitely right here with you. And you were with us too, Israa, with all of your personal growth stuff and the story you told about you and your friend in the cafe talking about podcasts. Could you tell us that, what you discovered?

Israa Nasir  

Gosh, yeah. And I was very intentional about wanting to share my story as well, because I think this is something that everybody struggles with, and it’s a lifelong thing that we decouple and unlearn, especially if you’re raised as being a very high-achieving person. And I had slipped into this mindset that everything I do needs to be in service of personal growth. And that’s a really big mask that toxic productivity can wear.

And it’s so innocuous where I wouldn’t even allow myself to watch like a rom-com. But it wasn’t like I wasn’t giving myself permission. was like immediately it was checked out of the box. It was just like, yeah, I’m never gonna watch this, right? And I wasn’t letting myself read fiction novels anymore because that time I had to put towards some sort of personal growth. And even podcasts that can be very entertaining, I was like, no, no. It has to be educational. I have to learn something. So everything was in service of learning. And that’s like a passion of mine, but any good thing when it crosses a line can become harmful. And so my friend and I were just like, we were just so sad about the fact that there just wasn’t enough time to listen to all the podcasts in the world. And I realized that maybe we don’t have to listen to every podcast. I know I’m on a podcast, so I don’t know, maybe.

Maybe don’t talk about this, but… This one!

Brie Tucker 

Yeah, you make the time to not only listen to this podcast, but to be on this podcast. So, so we know we’re up there. We know it. Yeah, we’re worth the time.

Israa Nasir  

Yes, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but and I just absolutely and you know what I actually want to say something interesting like it’s not about worth or not worth. It’s about what do you need, right? And I think that’s what I want people to build within themselves is we are always going to have an influx of content right now that’s coming out. And even for my own book, which here I am talking about literally like I’ve said this so many times and I’ll say it here too. If you already have a high TBR and you have a bunch of books that you have not read yet.

JoAnn Crohn 

Hmm.

Israa Nasir  

Like don’t pick this one up, come to it later. If you are not interested in this topic right now, but you’re seeing this everywhere because ads are running, genuinely, I think what I want is for people to be way more intentional about where they are putting their time and energy. Question why you want to do this. I really had to sit and do that with myself. And you know, and then I really had to make a very hard commitment to read nonfiction and watch rom-coms again. you know, because there’s so much value in that stuff too. Like why are we devaluing these things that are not productive? Cause they don’t have these outcomes, right? It’s, it just seems like a boring life. Like I feel like my life became boring at some point.

JoAnn Crohn

Yeah, there’s a value in fun. Like the best people to have on your team and to work with are the ones who bring fun to your environment, not necessarily the ones who know the most. The ones who know the most are kind of like the know-it-alls and you kind of want to like push them in the corner when it comes to like human. And I say that because I’m a know-it-all and I, and I’ve tried to reduce that and try to have more fun in my life because of that, because connection is based on fun and like, what is this life for? As you said.

Brie Tucker 

Yes!

JoAnn Crohn 

if not to have fun. Something that I do want to bring up is this whole concept about morning routines that I see a lot that come a lot with moms that who think that like, if I just had the right morning routine, I could get more done. I could have a better day. And this is something that you discuss about in your book in terms of like self care and exercise. And I want to get into that in the morning routine right after this. 

Okay. So many moms who come to us here at No Guilt Mom, who are in our Balance program, we hear this concept of a morning routine, specifically how it comes to fitting in exercise, eating healthy, and getting stuff done before your kids are up. However, and I say this from my own personal life, the morning routine is just not fun. Like you see it as all these things that you have to do and I noticed this too where I just didn’t want to get up and work out. I didn’t want to get up and do the things. I wanted to have that time to luxuriate, I call it, and lay in bed. And yet my mind was in mind rot as our teenager says.

Brie Tucker 

Bed rot. No, I mean the kids these days call that bed rotting. To me, it is peaceful semi-meditation.

JoAnn Crohn 

Bed rotting. So yes, but I felt so bad about not wanting to do this. So talk to us a little about like self-care. Like how could we get over this feeling of feeling bad, just to have a little space in our lives.

Israa Nasir  

One thing I’ll say right at the outset is that a good morning routine is by far the best way to have a balanced day. But a good morning routine looks different for every single person. I think that’s the piece we’re missing. I think it’s really important to have a grounded entry into beginning your day. But what that looks like and what you do in it needs to be something that is true and authentic to you not like a listicle you read somewhere or an Instagram video you saw, right? And so I think that’s the piece where we can bring agency and autonomy back into our life. Those are the places we make decisions to choose what we’ll do in the morning. Because yeah, there’s so much research out there that tells you that meditation is good for you. I know for a fact there are people when they meditate, their anxiety increases because they’re just not able to tap into that part of their brain.

So forcing that person to meditate in the morning means they’re gonna start from a place of anxiety and then they’re gonna feel bad that didn’t work for them. So they’re gonna have shame. And obviously you’re going to have a day that’s hard emotionally, right? So what I encourage people to do is to really find the thing that works for you. Pragmatically, yes, working out in the morning might be the only time you get to work out. Sure, sometimes you make concessions for pragmatic logistical things.

But maybe if it’s really not working for you and you’re not at your energetic best to really get in a good workout in the morning, reflect on where else you could work out even if it’s for 30 minutes instead of 60 later on in the day when your body cycle is higher, where you can actually put in more energy. I think we have to be very critical of what we’re doing in the morning. And so my morning routine, my God, I could never make an Instagram video out of it because it’s not aesthetic. It has no vibes, right?

JoAnn Crohn

Mm-hmm.

Israa Nasir  

But can I tell you how it is a non-negotiable for me? And I know the times where I don’t do it, like I’m dysregulated. So I wake up with a 20 minute buffer to like the time I’m supposed to be up that requires me to get ready and everything. So I have an extra 20 minutes. You could even on busy days, I do it for extra 10 minutes, right? And my morning routine consists of listening to very like soothing jazz music while I brush my teeth and get ready.

and then I have my coffee and breakfast in silence. That’s it. That’s my morning routine. And it literally changed my whole life because that five to eight minutes, yeah, the five to eight minutes of sitting quietly, enjoying my coffee, because I’m a big coffee drinker, eating my yogurt bowl. Sometimes I’ll put on like a nature show or like a food show, like the great British baking, if I’m feeling like it. But most of the times it’s quiet.

JoAnn Crohn

interesting.

Israa Nasir  

I’m not on my phone, I’m not checking email, I’m not posting on Instagram. And now I just, when I arrive to my desk, like I’m intentionally arriving. This is my decision. I’m not reacting to my calendar to get there. And it just makes me feel so much more grounded. Like my nervous system is feeling its best because of that. And so I’m not reactive, but there’s nothing to make a video about.

JoAnn Crohn

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, intentionally. No, it’d be like silent video. But like what you say about like being intentionally there versus being a slave to your calendar that hits with me because sometimes like I feel like I’m not slave to my calendar and I just want to rebel against it and not do anything it tells me to do because that’s my personality. So like I feel like

Brie Tucker

I love that.

Israa Nasir

Yeah, it’ll be silent, literally.

JoAnn Crohn 

I’m still looking for that routine for myself. I walk my dog. Yeah.

Israa Nasir  

Yeah. Yeah.

Brie Tucker

It takes time, right? Like I think it takes time to find it because yeah, I’m having some realizations that I think I’m gonna have to share at the end of this interview with Joanne. I also think maybe punk isn’t the best thing for first thing in the morning when Bree’s already frazzled. I don’t know. But I do think that it is notable though too, right? That that routine probably adjusts.

Like, and that’s the other thing too with the productivity, I think sometimes, right? Like we beat ourselves up when one system worked for us at one time. And then now later in our life due to circumstances, it could be like how your family is or like Brie currently going through perimenopause and her whole body is decided that nothing works anymore. Like you have to give yourself that grace and patience, right? To know that the…

Israa Nasir 

Yes.

JoAnn Crohn 

Hmm.

Brie Tucker

the productivity or the part that makes you feel like you’re getting things done, you’re gonna have to search for a new way to do that sometimes. And I think that’s, yeah.

Israa Nasir  

Yeah, it took me, yeah. I think that’s a really good point. It took me like almost like six months to really understand that I actually didn’t need to do anything in the morning to feel good, because I use a journal and I would definitely like work out and I tried meditation and I tried like walking to go get my coffee. Like I actually just tried a lot of different things until I landed on this, which is making my coffee at home in like a rotation of five things for breakfast, which I love.

But that I think you bring up a really good point is like our routines have to be flexible and evolving in every season of our life and that requires you to consistently be in touch with yourself, which just makes you a more aware and intentional person.

JoAnn Crohn

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So like, what would be like one piece of advice that people listening to this who realize that they may be stuck in a little bit of toxic productivity? How could they get out of it?

Israa Nasir 

I think what I would ask people to do is to try to see if for the next four weeks you can spend some solo time once a week. It sounds like a big ask on the outset because everybody has like a million things to do. But if you can even take a 10 to 20 minute per week and just no phone, no email, no music, no podcasts, nothing, and see if you can spend time on your own, I think that…

within four weeks we start realizing the pattern our brain takes. We start realizing, what are the thoughts that consistently come up for me? I think if you’re feeling like you’re stuck, the first thing you have to do is build awareness, because you can’t change something you don’t know. And for me, the problem was that I had like a very strong anxiety that is often known as the fear of missing out. So that was leading me to overcommit, right? But for other people, overcommitment happens because they have a hard time saying no, right? They struggle with disappointing people. For other people, it’s because they have a very finite definition of success. So the result is the same, which is over committing, but it can happen in so many different ways. By being with yourself, you will start to realize what, like, what are you bringing to your life that might be causing you some distress.

JoAnn Crohn 

Yeah.

Brie Tucker 

Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn 

Yeah, that’s good. I feel like, first of all, taking away from this conversation, I am going to figure out what works for me in the mornings to make me a calm Joanne. And then just be quiet, figure out what messages I’m telling myself. I feel like I’ve made a lot of progress through the years, but there’s some still little tweaks to be made. So Issa, what are you looking forward to that’s coming up for you?

Israa Nasir 

Two things. One, the book is out in the world, so I’m very excited to see how people react to it, how they feel, if it’s helpful. I’m curious because it’s been with me for so long. There was a time where I literally was having an existential crisis, or I was like, what is meaning? Is this even meaningful? So I’m excited about that. I’m excited to see how this impacts people. And then I’m also excited about my book tour.

which I’m doing in January, because I’m intentionally taking a break. Yeah, I’m very intentionally deciding to not do anything in the holiday season, except just be with my family because leading up to this, I was in a very toxic productivity season, like the last month has been. so, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you, thank you. Yeah, so I’m excited about those two things, is the book coming out and then actually taking it on tour.

JoAnn Crohn 

Yeah.

Brie Tucker

I would. Yeah, yeah, writing a book is insane and launching a book. So happy book release day.

You’ll have to let us know. You’ll have to let us know when you’re in Phoenix. if you have.

Israa Nasir 

Yeah, absolutely.

JoAnn Crohn 

If you’re in Phoenix, yeah, yeah. Definitely. Well, thank you so much, for coming on, sharing all of this great stuff about toxic productivity. And you listening right now, if you feel like you are stuck in that toxic productivity cycle, Israa’s book is called Toxic Productivity, Reclaim Your Time and Emotional Energy in a World That Always Demands More. We have a link for you right there in our show notes. So thank you so much, Israa, for being here.

Israa Nasir 

Thank you so much for having me.

JoAnn Crohn

So Brie had me like stunned right after we stopped because she’s like, brought up the lyrics to Toxic We could sing. It’s fun. I’m like, it’s not fun for me.

Brie Tucker 

“’cause you know that you’re toxic, I know, right? I honestly think that her walkout song to any of her book signings needs to be toxic. It needs to be. And now the question is, does it need to be the original Britney version or have you heard the Metal Rage version?

JoAnn Crohn 

I have not heard the Metal Rage version.

Brie Tucker 

girl!

JoAnn Crohn 

Okay, I will listen to that metal version for sure. Now you mentioned during the podcast that you had some realizations that you needed to talk about.

Brie Tucker 

But, but with-That was lady. Yep. Yep. That made me think about that. I was like, okay, so in it, in the interview, she was talking about how she has found like a good morning routine. and I think I could be an earlier person. I just need to find the routine. Cause like I used to way back in the day be someone who got up at 5 a.m.

I would do yoga in the morning and I loved those mornings. I loved those quiet, relaxing ways to wake up and stretch and feel good. As I’m talking, I’m realizing I need this in my life. So I’m going to commit to making this. But back to my point, the realization I had was perhaps, punk music isn’t the best thing for an overly anxious ADHD brain first thing in the morning. Yeah, I think maybe waking up in the morning and asking them to put on like the Ramones, I want to be sedated might not be my best move. Might not be.

JoAnn Crohn 

Maybe you just need the calming. Yeah, totally.

JoAnn Crohn 

It’s like the Ramones are working against you at that moment in time.

Brie Tucker 

And it’s the Ramones! The Ramones can’t work against anybody, but that just might not be their time and their place. They just might need to be scadaddled a little bit. Smooth jazz in the morning?

JoAnn Crohn 

But you’re you’re, you’re like up trying to get the energy for the day and the Ramones are just like, I want to be sedated. It was like.

Brie Tucker 

Right? Well, it’s “the 20-20-24 I was ignored, I wanna be sedated”. I’m gonna keep singing. This is gonna keep happening. But yeah, I think that something slower might actually put me in a less frazzled state of mind because how was I when we got on for this interview before she joined us? I was frazzled as all get out this morning, was I not?

JoAnn Crohn 

Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, you had a very, very busy morning. So it’s, you know, it makes sense. Maybe. Yeah, sometimes like I think they were good routine, like when we say, a good routine and I shouldn’t be doing this and I can help this is I’m like, I don’t know. I’m pushing against a lot of things that are completely in my control because I have been one of those people who is like, I could fix that. I could fix that. I could fix that.

Brie Tucker 

But a good routine could have probably helped, right?

JoAnn Crohn 

I realized this the other day, screeching on my shelf. Yesterday, I got a migraine in the afternoon and I felt it come on and I got it real fast and I took my migraine med. But like, as I picked up my daughter from school, we were driving back, she’s like, what’s wrong? I’m like, I have a migraine. And she’s like, well, how do you not get migraines? Because I don’t want to get migraines. So like, tell me, how do you not get migraines? And I was just like,

Brie Tucker

Quit shoulding on yourself, alright? Quit shoulding on yourself. Quit shoulding on yourself.

JoAnn Crohn 

I’m like, I have no idea. She’s like, well, there must be something you could do. And I’m like, my migraine medication? That’s pretty much what I could do. But it made me…

Brie Tucker

You tell her too that she’s got hope. It didn’t hit you to later in life.

JoAnn Crohn 

It didn’t. And also like my mom didn’t have migraine medication to deal with it. So maybe when she gets starts getting migraines at like 40 years old, it won’t even be a thing. Like they’ll have a preventative measure or something for it. I mean, just hope. But it made me realize that it’s such my thinking on some things where I’m like, well, if I just do these certain things, I can prevent things from happening. And that’s not the case, which is causing me to calm down a little bit more in my daily life, as you know, because you’ve tried to talk me out of things that I have.

Brie Tucker

Maybe. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn 

I I have control over her I don’t.

Brie Tucker

At least try to give you that external permission. That’s what I do. As your partner in crime, I try to give the external permission of like, yeah, yeah, like you’re looking like you’re, or you’re telling you that you’re in pain or that you’re tired or you’re sick. And I’m like, you you can like take the rest afternoon off, it’s okay. But I will say this, it’s interesting that story you just shared about how your daughter immediately went to that too. Well, what can I do? And like, I think that…

JoAnn Crohn 

Yeah.

Brie Tucker 

Yeah, I think it’s a very good point, like how I brought up in the interview that I feel like, shoot, the toxic productivity is what was, it was the accepted okay for decades in our culture and our society here in the US. And even though I think that we’re trying to adjust the needle, and I think we are adjusting the needle somewhat, I think there’s still a lot of work to be done to adjust that needle.

JoAnn Crohn

yeah. 

JoAnn Crohn 

Yeah. That, that tracks. I say that that tracks, but if you, if you heard a bit of yourself and that toxic productivity, like me and Brie did, there are steps now to take, just start experimenting with things that make you feel good and start noticing that voice that’s shooting you to death. Like our voices do.

Yep. until next time, remember the best mom’s a happy mom. Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later.

Brie Tucker 

Thanks for stopping by.