Podcast Episode 342: The Truth About College Admissions No One Tells You Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

JoAnn Crohn (00:02.206)

Welcome to the No Goat Mom podcast. I’m your host JoAnn Crohn, joined here by the delightful Brie Tucker.

Brie Tucker (00:09.033)

Why hello hello everybody, how are you?

JoAnn Crohn (00:11.616)

We are digging into a topic that is so on Brie and my mind these days it is college. It’s the college admissions process and it is the ensuing conflict that is happening with our teens both in kind of like different ways which we’ll share. We’ll share during the episode. But one of the things that you can expect from spending the next 30 minutes with us is you’re gonna hopefully realize this doesn’t have to be as stressful as Bri and I are making it out to be or at least I am making it out to be I can’t speak for you Bri. Is it stressful for you?

Brie Tucker (00:48.18)

It’s stressful, but in a different way. I think that you definitely do to where, do to the school your kids go to and just, yeah, I think you guys have some different stressors than we do.

JoAnn Crohn (01:00.832)

Yeah, but we’re gonna actually show you how it can make the bond between you and your teens stronger. So you’re gonna see Bree and I go through it during real time. And we’re doing that with the help of our guest, Dr. Pamela Ellis. She’s known as the education doctor and she has helped over 30,000 families navigate college admissions, ensuring teens find the right fit without overspending.

As a CEO and consultant, Dr. Pamela’s experiences with the education system include advising school districts, community organizations, and institutes of higher education. However, her experience as the mother of three young children going back to graduate school provided a unique understanding of how to juggle college, life, and being a parent. And we are so excited for you to meet Dr. Pamela Ellis. And let’s get on with the show. 

INTRO MUSIC

Welcome Pamela to the No Guilt One podcast. We’re so excited to have you here.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (01:54.102)

Thank you, thank you.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (01:59.188)

my goodness, JoAnn and Brie, I am so excited to be here. And knowing what I’m walking into with two moms who are in the process. my goodness, I can’t wait.

JoAnn Crohn (02:04.19)

Yeah, we,

Brie Tucker (02:04.253)

Yay!

Brie Tucker (02:12.196)

Yes, it is insane.

JoAnn Crohn (02:12.476)

it’s you know, it’s so funny being in this process because like, I am learning what all is out there in the college admissions land. Like when I was going through it, I really didn’t look outside my home state like I did. I wanted to go to USC but it was way too expensive for my family like and I so I just kind of was like, check not even gonna apply there and now I’m realizing that

Dr. Pamela Ellis (02:23.332)

Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn (02:38.932)

that may have, I may have been limiting myself in that area. But before we get into that, can you explain to us like, why is this process so damn stressful for parents?

Dr. Pamela Ellis (02:52.452)

There’s a lot to that question for sure.

JoAnn Crohn (02:53.471)

Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn (02:57.383)

Yes there is!

Brie Tucker (02:57.416)

gonna say and there are a lot of pieces so which one do we dissect first?

Dr. Pamela Ellis (03:01.752)

Yes. Well, I’m going to get into it. But before I do, one of the things I want to say is thanks to both of you. And I just want to make sure that your audience knows just how lucky they are to have you as hosts. I mean, I love the fact that you do this together and just the sincerity and the questions with your shows.

Brie Tucker (03:25.487)

Shucks, girl!

JoAnn Crohn (03:26.036)

Thank you.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (03:30.756)

It’s amazing. And so thank you so much for all you do. And I think the title alone just says so much for us as moms. And so for anybody who’s listening, go out and do your five star review now. Okay. Yes. Do that now.

JoAnn Crohn (03:47.478)

Thank you for doing that. Thank you.

Brie Tucker (03:51.273)

you’re

Pamela, do you like, no, that’s perfect.

JoAnn Crohn (03:55.776)

You

Dr. Pamela Ellis (03:57.182)

That’s what I want to start with. Now, I can answer your question about why it’s so stressful. You know, I think it’s a combination of things that make it a stressful process. For us as moms, we want the best for our kids. And as they are going into this college admissions process, there is a lot of emotion for us.

JoAnn Crohn (03:59.445)

Yeah.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (04:25.646)

There’s a lot of emotion for us in terms of wanting the best for them and not wanting to see them have any feelings of rejection. And, you know, that’s huge. And if we are working moms, we have that guilt around, are we doing enough to help them be successful? And so that’s all wrapped up into all of the news we hear about how

Brie Tucker (04:36.297)

Right?

Dr. Pamela Ellis (04:54.948)

colleges are only admitting 2 % or some crazy number or how expensive it is. And for our teens, they’re caught up in everything they are hearing at school and feeling that stress. And right now in this season where students are starting to hear back where they’ve been admitted or where they haven’t been admitted, that news travels fast. And so…

JoAnn Crohn (04:59.751)

Yeah.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (05:24.278)

If you think like, my God, this kid is so smart and they didn’t get into X college. that means it’s going to be so hard for me to get in or I could never get in. And all of that combined around this whole topic just makes it so much more stressful than it has to be. And so that’s, that’s what I feel. It’s just so many different, you know, factors in involvement and certainly the media.

JoAnn Crohn (05:44.362)

That’s absolutely true.

Brie Tucker (05:48.795)

yeah.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (05:53.673)

our own feelings as parents and what the teens are experiencing.

JoAnn Crohn (05:57.32)

Yeah. There’s so many like conflicting emotions and different emotions. One emotion that I have never heard parents talk about is that I feel a slight twinge of jealousy for my daughter, like being able to go through this stage right now, because I remember college being such a wonderful time and like a time where I grew and I’m like, my gosh, I wish I could do that again. I wish I could have some of the opportunities that Because of what I went through in my life, I was able to provide for her. And that’s a weird feeling as a parent.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (06:26.084)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is. And we all, you know, we’ve gone to college ourselves, have that feeling of what it should be in terms of even what options they may decide to choose. And when we get caught up in, you know, it almost being feeling like, you know, we’re doing this when you start using that we term.

JoAnn Crohn (06:53.736)

It feels like that.

Brie Tucker (06:54.739)

Yep.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (06:54.744)

To talk about it, you’ve already pretty much crossed the line into it being a little bit more stressful than it should be. Yeah. Yes.

JoAnn Crohn (06:59.391)

Yeah.

Brie Tucker (07:03.582)

Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn (07:03.604)

That is a good tip. feel like we need to really emphasize that one. If it’s a we process and we got into this goal, that’s a sign that you’ve already crossed the line. That seems to be a mistake that parents may be making in this college admissions process. What other kind of mistakes do you see parents making that may really like hurt this relationship with their kids and also like make it a lot more stressful than it needs to be?

Dr. Pamela Ellis (07:10.724)

Yeah. That’s certainly the biggest one when you start to use that term we because what it signals is that your team isn’t owning the process for themselves and owning those decisions for themselves. And so that’s where it really starts to get even more stressful. And so that’s probably the biggest mistake that I see is parents

Brie Tucker (07:43.892)

Mm.

Yeah.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (08:01.828)

taking on the process and owning it themselves as opposed to letting their team own it. And along with that, sometimes they’re doing a lot more work than their team is doing. So if a parent tells me they were up at night researching the colleges and looking at them or they did the calls to schedule the campus visits, they have taken over. And when they’re doing the work for them, the teams are

more inclined to be resentful. Even if they’re not expressing it, that resentment will certainly fester, especially when it gets down to where they end up going. Yeah. Okay, Brie, did I step on your toes there? Okay. Okay.

JoAnn Crohn (08:44.766)

Yeah.

Brie Tucker (08:45.108)

Okay, now you just gave me a question. no, you gave me a really good question. I wanna flip that coin over. So my question for you is what about if you’re taking too much of a backseat? So I would love to hear, I wanna describe to you after this break, like what my situation is with my oldest. Cause I was telling JoAnn earlier, I think we have some different experiences and I feel like I’m doing the opposite side of the coin with my son. And I need you to tell me if I am screwing him up right after this.

Brie Tucker (09:25.684)

Okay, Dr. Pamela, can I call you Dr. Pamela? I feel like we’re on that level here. All right.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (09:30.53)

Yes, absolutely.

JoAnn Crohn (09:32.781)

If I had a doctor in front of my name, I would probably say everyone should call me Dr. JoAnn, by the way. But yes. Yes.

Brie Tucker (09:37.012)

Yeah, right? Like, I don’t know. It’s empowering to me. I don’t know. So Dr. Pamela, here is my dilemma. So my oldest is, he didn’t used to be the overachieving type, but he is now, if you ask me. All AP honors classes definitely wants to get an amazing scholarship, wants to have like the best GPA, all of that, wants to have…

Dr. Pamela Ellis (09:37.444)

Yes.

Brie Tucker (10:03.996)

a great college experience. I think he wants the scholarships because he doesn’t want to have loans. He’s terrified of loans. So I don’t know what’s been said to him about student loans, because I never had any and neither did his dad. I don’t know who’s been whispering in his ear about how student loans are going to kill him, but it has. And now it’s gotten to the point where I don’t want to put any pressure on him. So even though I know he has this, I want to go to college mindset.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (10:10.596)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brie Tucker (10:35.1)

And I know that he has some big dreams in the back of his head. I also know that like Joanne, he’s not reaching far, he’s staying close by. And I think because it’s easier for him. And this is why. I am not putting any pressure on him regarding college at all. I’m like, you wanna go to college, you don’t wanna go to college, it’s fine, don’t worry about student loans, we’ll figure it out. But I refuse.

to schedule any college tours for him. He has to like do that. I refuse to do any applying for, applying for anything with him. What I have done is said, if you need my help, I’m here, but that’s as much as I’m willing to do. And the other thing you might want, you might need to know is that like I’m divorced and my son spends one week at my house and one week at his dad’s house. And I don’t know what kind of mind, like what his messages at his dad’s house, but I feel like the best thing I can do is to not push at all. And now I’m worried that like, he feels like he’s on his own. I’m worried, he hasn’t said this by the way. This is just Bree’s head going in that direction that I’m like taking too much of a backseat. He thinks he has no support and he’s doing it all on his own. So what are your thoughts? Am I screwing him up by not taking more of a lead? Because the truth of the matter is the boy doesn’t know what he doesn’t know, but he also doesn’t wanna hear it from me. unfortunately I have said to him, the college experience and the application process is not what it was when I was in college. Like, I feel like I just had to write my name on an application and I got accepted. It was like, it was not the high pressure stakes that is these days.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (12:02.623)

Mm-hmm.

Brie Tucker (12:26.996)

Yeah, nothing like being put on the spot there to tell me exactly what I should be doing as a parent.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (12:28.196)

Well, one thing I’ll say for sure is I don’t think that it’s been a mistake that you have stepped back at all. What I would.

Brie Tucker (12:43.87)

But that’s almost like the opposite side of what you were talking about, right? Like, no?

JoAnn Crohn (12:47.89)

I don’t

Dr. Pamela Ellis (12:48.42)

No, no, I don’t think of it that way at all. No, no. Yeah. No, I don’t think of it as the opposite at all. I would say at this point, the thing you don’t want is for him to feel that he’s out there by himself. And so the way that you can mend that

Brie Tucker (12:51.284)

If people could see me cheering in the background right now, I’m like, raise the roof, I didn’t break my kid, whoop whoop.

Brie Tucker (13:11.678)

Yeah.

How do you find that?

Dr. Pamela Ellis (13:17.996)

would be if there is someone else, perhaps his counselor at school that can partner with you in terms of continuing to guide him through the remainder of this process. Because he’s a senior now, and so I’m not going to say that there are all these things that you should be doing or you’ve made all these mistakes. No way.

Brie Tucker (13:32.852)

Okay.

Brie Tucker (13:46.067)

know, right?

Dr. Pamela Ellis (13:46.218)

Now, really making the most of where he is now and where he’s gotten to at this point. I wouldn’t even recommend doing a lot of things like all of a sudden he starts looking at colleges away. If he wants to stay close to home, then that’s great. Exactly. Honor that and show him that you still believe in him and that he is going to make a great decision.

Brie Tucker (14:02.182)

Yeah. I need to honor it, right? Yeah.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (14:15.332)

when it comes time to decide between the offers that he has available and that you’re still supporting him. And as a senior, he wouldn’t be doing any visits really until he has perhaps an offer to do an interview at a campus for a scholarship or in the spring.

when he is doing his visits of the colleges where he’s been admitted. So doing admitted student visits, and you can support him by going to those visits. And when you do go to the visit with him, it will be supporting him as he negotiates his offers. And so that’s what you’ll do to still show him that you’re in his corner, you’re supporting him in this great decision that he’s going to make.

Brie Tucker (14:40.99)

Okay.

Brie Tucker (14:59.516)

Right? Okay. All right.

JoAnn Crohn (14:59.708)

that’d be cool.

Brie Tucker (15:10.932)

Okay, thank you so much for validating me and my experiences and my special family. Cause my daughter is nothing like my son. But with that being said, I feel like Joanne, you kind of have a same yet very different issue going on in your house with your junior.

JoAnn Crohn (15:15.262)

Hahaha. do to your daughter she does not want to talk about which college she’s going to right now like she was like anytime any outside family members ask she’s like I don’t really know you know what I want to do and that is fine with me it is fine I

Dr. Pamela Ellis (15:35.223)

Right. Yeah. I just had a conversation with my clients about this. have a parent community and it’s all of our senior clients. And the thing that we talked about was how to have a conversation or not about college during the holidays because everyone is going to be asking, where are you going to college? And a lot of students don’t know yet and won’t know until after the new year. And so how do you handle those conversations? How do you set boundaries with family members? And also you yourself respect your team space and not ask them those questions around what they’re doing, where are they going?

JoAnn Crohn (16:11.637)

Yeah.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (16:33.218)

How come they have it?

JoAnn Crohn (16:33.631)

Yeah.

Brie Tucker (16:34.878)

So at what point should a parent like touch in, tap in and just be like, hey, just wanted to know like if you’ve started anything at all yet. Like, I don’t know, like how do we get to ask questions without being, last thing I wanna hear is for my kid to come back and be like, you’re always so controlling, mom, you’re pushing so much.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (16:58.564)

Yeah, I think there’s a way to do that in terms of asking open-ended questions as opposed to those closed questions. And the truth of the matter is that timing is everything, Bree. So perhaps you’re not talking about it with your son at the dining room table, but the two of you are out on a walk together, or maybe you’re cooking together. And that’s when you’re asking that open-ended question.

And the key thing that I’ll share to always keep in mind when you’re having these conversations with your teen is to have that judgment free zone. And here is an example I’ll share with you when I was talking with my youngest. They were telling me about an issue that they were having at school. So they were talking on and on about it and I thought I was really doing something because I was sitting there listening quietly as they talk. And when they finished, I was like, you should do X, Y, Z. And boy, did they let me have it. Stop! Stop trying to solve everything. And I’m like, what, where did that come from? I had no idea. But it was, again,

JoAnn Crohn (18:11.411)

yeah. I get it constantly. Yeah.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (18:23.972)

The way they perceived it, here I am, butting it in again, trying to solve their problems. And it wasn’t that, it wasn’t my place to solve it for them, but to really give them the space to share openly, make them feel comfortable sharing openly and expressing curiosity, yes, but not solving it for them. And we all know, and I think from your faces, you’ve had that.

know, backlash from your teen and you’re just like, what? Where is that coming from?

JoAnn Crohn (18:56.23)

my gosh, but sometimes you don’t even know the boundary until you break it. So I think like one of the things is like going into these conversations, like don’t like, I wouldn’t try to be too cautious, but it’s always like you try something and then if it doesn’t work, you revise it. Now see, Pamela, I get the opposite from my team. I will be calm, I will be listening. And she’s like, why aren’t you as mad about this as I am?

Dr. Pamela Ellis (19:02.092)

Right.

JoAnn Crohn (19:21.566)

Why aren’t you giving me these like reactions to this situation? And I’m like, I’m listening and this is how I react. I’m taking it all in. So either way, like I get in trouble either way. So I don’t even think about getting in trouble anymore. I’m just like, whatever her opinion of me does not matter to me. I am still a good person and a good, this is what I have to tell myself. Cause I get it all the time. Yeah.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (19:44.504)

Yeah. I know. I can’t tell you that many times I felt like I am such a terrible mom.

JoAnn Crohn (19:51.2)

You are still a good mom, you are a good person, your teen’s opinion is not a reflection on your motherhood.

Brie Tucker (19:53.396)

Hey, if you wanna…

Brie Tucker (19:59.86)

That’s it. That needs to be a t-shirt. We need to make that a t-shirt. Your value as a parent is not deemed by your child’s snarky response.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (20:02.648)

Yes. Yes.

JoAnn Crohn (20:03.456)

Your teens opinion.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (20:12.164)

Or when they give you the silent treatment, as I often got from my sons when we were, when it came to talking about college with my oldest, he didn’t really want to talk about it. And his plan was that he was going to apply to one college, early action, and that would be it. And that’s exactly what he did until, yes. And he finds out mid December.

JoAnn Crohn (20:12.273)

Yes. so right after… Yeah, that is not cool.

Brie Tucker (20:35.476)

And your son and my son are like the same kid!

Dr. Pamela Ellis (20:41.838)

that he was deferred. And so we had to cancel all of our holiday plans because through Christmas and New Year’s, that’s when he started working on his applications. And he was nervous then because he saw that, no, he wasn’t just going to get into one college and be done.

JoAnn Crohn (21:04.18)

really illustrates a hard part of parenting. And I want to talk about that more right after this break. So Pamela, you described this process with your son and I think that like what you went through right there, it was like such the optimal thing for kids to go through, but it also made your life a little harder in those December months. And I think that’s something that we think about as parents a lot. We’re like, okay, well, if they don’t do this, then it’s gonna ruin all of my plans, which it did for you. And yet, that was the only thing that was gonna motivate your son to have those natural consequences happen where it’s like, shoot, my plan fell through. Yeah.

Brie Tucker (21:49.246)

to feel the squeeze, to feel the squeeze of the planning or the lack of planning.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (21:51.316)

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn (21:54.962)

No, but it’s so hard. I want to talk about like, how do we navigate as parents these messages that kids are getting from school? And I’ll give you an example here. My daughter goes to a college prep high school where all the teachers are very focused on, you need to do this to get into college. you need to do that to get into college. you should have all these APs to get into college. And like, she feels so much stress from it. And her parents, her

friend’s parents also put a lot of stress on their kids. And so it’s an environment of like this, need to do the right thing else I’m not going to get into college. How as a parent can I help alleviate that stress a little bit at home? Or what can I help her with in that respect?

Dr. Pamela Ellis (22:48.164)

That’s one that I’ve experienced for sure. My kids went to a highly selective, rigorous high school where everything was about, you need to get into X college. And so it’s one that comes up a lot with my clients as well. And I particularly see the stress among the girls that we work with. I think it’s balanced.

JoAnn Crohn (23:13.396)

Yeah.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (23:17.904)

out by you doing those simple things like having routines at home, routines of dinners together, and also giving her the space to self-reflect, whether it’s through journaling, whether it’s through providing some assessments where she gets a sense for who she is.

JoAnn Crohn (23:30.815)

Mm.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (23:46.98)

And one of the things that we’ve implemented in our programs is a values assessment. And so that way your daughter will come to know herself better, feel that self-awareness and understanding around what her strengths are. And so that everything isn’t about being perfect or doing what everyone else is doing.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (24:15.217)

And certainly having a strong family foundation provides that source of strength.

JoAnn Crohn (24:22.526)

Yeah. I have to say that dinner thing is hard when they get into the high school years, especially at these high achievement schools, because she has like volunteer things. I mean, just yesterday she was volunteering at a nursing home and then she had to go to a basketball game because she’s part of student government and had to be there. And so she comes in at home and it’s like 830. We’ve already eaten dinner. She’s like trying to shovel down the food at the kitchen counter and just seeing the stress that our kids are under.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (24:27.723)

It is.

Brie Tucker (24:29.737)

Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn (24:51.26)

It’s insane. Like, it is insane.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (24:51.641)

Right. It’s definitely hard when they are a junior because there is a lot more pressure. Classes are harder. There’s the testing. There’s everything they have to do to prepare for their college applications in junior year. But I often advise taking something off their plate because so many times a lot of stress is added because

Brie Tucker (25:02.813)

be done, right?

Dr. Pamela Ellis (25:23.694)

kids feel like they need to be quote unquote well-rounded. They need to do all these different things. And I’m just like, when they asked me that, some of my students asked me, what about community service? I need to do community service. What community service? I’m thinking like, why? Why do you need to do community service? If you don’t care about community service, don’t do it. Simple as that. You don’t have to do it. When you are even putting your,

JoAnn Crohn (25:45.77)

Yeah.

Brie Tucker (25:48.425)

Yeah.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (25:51.702)

It’s not about doing a little bit of everything. That’s just going to wear you down. And do those things you care about. And so if you don’t care about that, then don’t do it. Simple as that.

JoAnn Crohn (25:57.95)

Mm-hmm.

Brie Tucker (26:04.66)

Okay, I have to share. I was gonna say, if you wanna hear that from your mouth to my son’s ears, like two weeks ago, he had a senior night for marching band and they all had to bestow a piece of advice to the students that were still in marching band. And his advice was, so I kinda got a little excited my junior, senior year and joined every club. I suggest you don’t do that. It’s been a bit overwhelming.

JoAnn Crohn (26:04.734)

That is such great advice.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (26:16.548)

Mm-hmm.

JoAnn Crohn (26:30.272)

I see you

Brie Tucker (26:33.724)

So like hearing you say that, I just want you to know I had told my son that he didn’t listen to me, but boy did I sit there and like cover my mouth so I didn’t do that loud cackle laugh I do when I’m like, ha ha, I told you. He knows that laugh. So I try to keep it under his.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (26:42.52)

Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. And you know something, that’s the nature of teens. They don’t listen to us. They don’t listen to us. But you know something, I am not mad about it because that’s really what keeps us in business. Because we’re that neutral third party. had a mom ask me recently about whether or not her son should be prepping for the SAT because he thinks he doesn’t have

JoAnn Crohn (26:49.461)

Hey.

Brie Tucker (26:54.94)

Nope. We know nothing.

JoAnn Crohn (27:02.942)

True. Very true.

Brie Tucker (27:05.054)

Yeah

Dr. Pamela Ellis (27:15.652)

because the colleges are test optional. And she was just saying how frustrated she is with talking to him about it. And I was just like, don’t say it to him. Let me say it. Because I can say that and he’ll listen to it because I’m not you. I’m not his mom.

Brie Tucker (27:31.848)

Yeah. Yeah. You hold so much more water than we do. Let’s just have any, right?

JoAnn Crohn (27:38.144)

It becomes gospel. my gosh. If one of my kid’s teacher says something and I know it’s completely wrong, my opinion does not matter. And I want to go bang my head against a wall because it’s like so infuriating as a parrot.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (27:39.094)

Yes, because the thing about it, my kids don’t listen to me.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (27:54.67)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Brie Tucker (27:58.516)

frustrating thing to be somebody that is well versed in anything that has to do with children or education because your kids will never listen to you. Yet you’re giving the right support and advice 99 % of the time. But it can’t come from us because it’s jaded. It’s, yes.

JoAnn Crohn (28:11.861)

Mm-hmm. happens all the time, happens all the time.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (28:22.244)

It cannot come from us. It cannot come from us. So I thank them and I’m grateful that their parents decide to partner with me to tell them.

JoAnn Crohn (28:26.336)

Well, yeah.

Brie Tucker (28:33.009)

Yes!

JoAnn Crohn (28:33.98)

Absolutely. Well, Pamela, you’ve given us so many great tips. First of all, like if you’ve already started using the Wii, you’ve already you’ve stepped over the line, making sure you’re there for your child and also like providing those routines and everything that has nothing to do with school or college whatsoever just to take the stress away. So if you’re having a stressful time with your child right now, like try those simple little tips and and watch out for that college application Wii.

be used and what though right now in your life, Pamela, what are you looking forward to personally?

Dr. Pamela Ellis (29:03.086)

Yes.

Brie Tucker (29:03.496)

Hahaha

Dr. Pamela Ellis (29:12.1)

I’m looking forward to running a half marathon in all 50 states.

JoAnn Crohn (29:15.782)

Woohoo!

Brie Tucker (29:18.01)

No way, how many have you done so far? Or are you just starting on this?

Dr. Pamela Ellis (29:20.676)

So far, I’ve done five.

JoAnn Crohn (29:23.424)

That’s exciting.

Brie Tucker (29:23.892)

I think I’ve been to five states total, let alone the amount of running I’ve done in those states is, what’s that number called Joanne? Zero? Zip? Zilch?

Dr. Pamela Ellis (29:28.238)

Ha ha ha!

JoAnn Crohn (29:29.436)

exciting.

JoAnn Crohn (29:36.692)

Zero. So I was looking back there at my medals because I did marathons before my first was born. I haven’t done any of this since I’ve had kids, but they’re so fun. Sorry. Which one are you doing?

Dr. Pamela Ellis (29:37.252)

Ha

Brie Tucker (29:42.088)

Yes.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (29:43.636)

Really? Yeah. That’s awesome.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (29:51.928)

They are. Well, I’m doing one in Florida in the upcoming weeks and Indiana likely. And so I have different marathons coming up plotted out. And my goal is to have them all completed by December of 26.

JoAnn Crohn (29:55.968)

that’s.

JoAnn Crohn (30:00.519)

that’s fun.

Brie Tucker (30:12.69)

Wow, okay, well, when you do yours in Arizona, chances are good you’ll be in like Phoenix. So look us up. Yeah, I was gonna say. You did? Where? Where did you live out here?

JoAnn Crohn (30:12.926)

That’s exciting.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (30:19.116)

Right, I sure will. I used to live in Phoenix and I love it. I can’t wait to come back. Yeah. my goodness. I lived there when Valley Bank used to be the major bank in town. It was the time around Charles Keaton, the Keaton Five. So it was some years ago. Yeah. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn (30:19.996)

Probably rock and roll. No, does this? Yeah. yeah, that’s where we are.

JoAnn Crohn (30:32.66)

Okay, I know Valley Bank. I was in Tucson.

JoAnn Crohn (30:38.752)

Okay, that was that was a bit ago. Yeah. Yeah, I was in Tucson probably during that time. I don’t know.

Brie Tucker (30:46.625)

I just have a blank look because I’m like, yeah, I didn’t even know Phoenix like existed until 1995. Joking, sort of.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (30:52.896)

Yeah, yeah.

JoAnn Crohn (30:52.946)

Yeah, it’s funny. There was like in relation to that. So there was a serial killer in Tucson where I grew up and my dad had gone to high school with this serial killer. Yeah, it was insane. Yeah.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (30:59.991)

huh. Yeah.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (31:05.581)

Really?

Brie Tucker (31:06.28)

We’re doing an episode on this. man, this is gonna be a chatty episode. yeah, yeah.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (31:08.387)

wow, wow.

JoAnn Crohn (31:12.168)

Yeah, it’s interesting. Well, thank you so much, Pamela, for joining us and for giving us all this information. And I will be I will be taking it to heart and just calming myself down to.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (31:18.642)

thank you, thank you.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Brie Tucker (31:25.512)

We will both be taken to heart. You have impacted the lives of at least four children very directly right now. So, yes.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (31:33.092)

Aww.

Yes, thank you so much. And can I leave a gift for your listeners? Awesome. my goodness. I want to give to your listeners the College Prep Blueprint. And it’s a guide sheet on step-by-step what to do each year and also a communication guide to have those touchy conversations about college without

Brie Tucker (31:40.496)

Yes, what would you like to gift our listeners?

JoAnn Crohn (31:40.714)

yes, yes.

JoAnn Crohn (32:00.255)

Hmm.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (32:05.87)

feeling like you’re nagging your teen and just having that stress and overwhelm. So that’s what I’d like to gift. And they can message me the word blueprint 25 at LinkedIn. I’m Dr. Pamela Ellis on LinkedIn, D-R-P-A-M-E-L-A-E-L-L-I-S.

Brie Tucker (32:12.574)

I love that.

JoAnn Crohn (32:12.596)

There is a lot of that.

JoAnn Crohn (32:29.216)

And we’ll put all of that in the show notes too. So thank you again and we’ll talk to you soon.

Brie Tucker (32:29.812)

awesome.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (32:30.732)

Yeah. Awesome.

Dr. Pamela Ellis (32:35.406)

Thank you and take care.

END OF INTERVIEW

JoAnn Crohn (00:01.252)

Okay, so both you and I are going through all the college stress right now and I thought that was very helpful, very validating. 

Brie Tucker (00:13.023)

It was, and I really do. So like when my son was a junior, I’m just gonna tell you this, from my personal perspective of having the AP honors kid, junior year was the worst for us. It was hell. It was hell in school. it was funny because Dr. Pamela suggested helping them take things off their plate, bringing them back to routines and things like that. And I tried a lot of that with my son Junior year. And you remember hearing me talk about it last year. And if you’re a regular podcast listener, you heard me talk a lot last year about how I was concerned about my kiddo. And I think it was 100 % that he was over-scheduled. was overworked. had a job, he had his marching band, which takes up both before and after school activities plus weekends.

And then he was taking all these AP classes, studying for the SAT, studied for the ACT, wanted particular scores, blah, blah, blah. All I can tell you is that kid was a ball of nerves. everything upset him. He was in a really rough place. did ask him, beg him actually, to quit his job. He wouldn’t do it for me. But something happened.And like right before band started his senior year, he was like, I’m gonna take a break from work. He gave that advice to kids about like not, I mean, my son’s in drama club. Yeah, he’s in drama club. He holds an office in drama club. Has my son ever been in a play? Nope. Hasn’t taken a sit, but he enjoys being in the club. I don’t know why. But yeah, so like my point being is just that.

JoAnn Crohn (01:59.918)

Cool.

Brie Tucker (02:04.823)

Kids will find it and it’ll be painful and it’ll be so hard to watch, but they do find their way. Just keep bringing. I think that what she said was the best advice. Like I just kept bringing it back to you. You don’t need to do so much. And he’s in a much better place this year. He’s already been accepted in a couple of colleges. I think he’s done. I think he’s done.

JoAnn Crohn (02:16.504)

Yeah. That’s all good. That’s all good. Yeah, I’m not seeing too much stress from my daughter. She just doesn’t want to be asked where she’s going to school. But she did follow my advice. She took theater, which at first she hated me for because of the show. But the show’s over now. And she actually, during theater rehearsals, had a lot of time to do her homework during those rehearsals because she wasn’t a lead, which is great because there isn’t that responsibility.

Brie Tucker (02:29.695)

Which is normal.

JoAnn Crohn (02:51.22)

she often comes home with all of her homework done because she does it in like her classes when they have the free time, which is so amazing to me because I would just chat with my friends the entire time and not do any of my work if I was given the opportunity at high school.

Brie Tucker (03:08.747)

being given a lot of time, what I remember is a lot of like your in-class work. And then on the board, you had your homework that you had to do as well. Cause like back in the day, right? We still had shock boards and dry erase boards. Like I just, I don’t remember being given that time. And, but I have the same response from my kids that they have, they get time in class and they do it there. Like I…

JoAnn Crohn (03:15.213)

Yeah. Well, it’s also like when we are age, we didn’t have laptops in the classroom. So we couldn’t type our papers. We couldn’t do our papers in the classroom. We had to do everything at home.

Brie Tucker (03:37.855)

Yeah, yeah, that wasn’t a thing. Hey, I had an electronic, I had an electronic typewriter at home though. Yeah, I would type at home. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn (03:47.074)

at home, we couldn’t do it. And now they could take their laptops, they have everything there in front of them, they could do whatever, which is actually awesome. They need more of their home time. So I’m on board with the laptops.

Brie Tucker (03:52.563)

It is kinda cuckoo. Yeah. The only thing I don’t like about the current school setup, and this is very, very much me being outside of our topic we were talking about, but that like where our kids go to school in Arizona, they don’t have lockers at any of those schools. And so I hate that I see my kids plopping all these huge, which why? Why are they putting textbooks into their bags? Like everything is available online nowadays. Like I don’t understand why.

JoAnn Crohn (04:12.047)

yeah, I don’t like that. That sucks.

Brie Tucker (04:28.169)

Yeah, I don’t get it, but I don’t get a lot according to my kids, so whatever else is new.

JoAnn Crohn (04:31.812)

Again, your mother, your teens opinion of you is not a reflection of your motherhood.

Brie Tucker (04:37.791)

And we’re going to make that a t-shirt people. I mark my words sometime before the end of your life, you will be wearing that t-shirt.

JoAnn Crohn (04:45.154)

my teens current opinion of me, because it changes every day. So it’s never constant.

Brie Tucker (04:48.821)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have days where I’m loved, but right now I’m in a you suck period of time. I’m in my you suck era right now, but that’s okay.

JoAnn Crohn (04:57.348)

I was just told like how I’m not supposed to schedule interviews during her pickup time when she hasn’t had a set pickup time for the past four weeks. And it’s my fault. And I’m like,

Brie Tucker (05:08.811)

Give me that girl. I will talk to her.

JoAnn Crohn (05:11.812)

I talked to her this morning. I talked to her. I was like, OK. Anyways, yes. And hopefully she doesn’t hear this because that’s at the end of the podcast. If any of her friends are listening, I will hunt you down. No, I won’t. I won’t.

Brie Tucker (05:16.631)

Okay, let’s have a chat.

Brie Tucker (05:28.311)

So in other words, if you have a kid who is coming near college, you definitely, definitely need to follow up with Dr. Pamela Ellis. We have all of her info in the show notes here. Get her free guide, the College Prep Blueprint, along with the communication guide. We’ll have everything down there. One link, just click and DM her the message BLUEPRINT25 and she will send that to you because it is going to be a huge help.

JoAnn Crohn (05:56.452)

Exactly. And until next time, remember the best mom is a happy mom. Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later.

Brie Tucker (06:02.155)

Thanks for stopping by.