Podcast Episode 310: 5 Things You Need To Know So You Can Create the Change You Crave Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

JoAnn 

Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast. I’m your host JoAnn Crohn, joined here by the lovely and eye acrobatic brow Tucker, Brie Tucker, brow Tucker, Brie Tucker.

Brie Tucker 

Hello, hello everybody, how are you? I’m trying to do, I can only lift one eyebrow. It’s only my right one. I was trying to lift my left one. But it.

JoAnn 

I could sell this as like, can’t do one at a time, so I do synchronized brow dancing. It’s a hard thing to do. It’s a hard thing to do. Anything that makes it fun is all I’m talking about, which is so much serious. So serious, like the Joker would say. Why so serious? Need something fun. Aw, my dog is laying on my sofa.

Brie Tucker 

Scared not scared scared not scared. Yeah. Sorry guys

Brie Tucker 

Yeah, you know, why are you so serious all the time? That’s my dog voice.

JoAnn 

Every time you say dog, like my ADHD brain is insane. It is insane right now. And I think it’s because of the tiredness or I don’t know. Like I, don’t know if you ever do this, but this morning in the kitchen, there was a pile of like my mail that I received yesterday on the kitchen counter because me and my son were traveling. And then I was trying to make my drink of athletic greens, AG one. And so.

What would happen is that I put my bottle on the counter, I opened up my packet of AG1 and then I’m like, I need water in this. And so I turn around, I fill the water, I put it down and then I’m like, wait, I want to open those packages. So I’m not done making the AG1. And I go and I start opening the package and I opened a scissors and I’m like, wow, this book, I already read it already. no, let me text my friend April and see who also likes thrillers and let me read this, this book. Meanwhile, there’s my, I’m like, AG1, I totally forgot about you. There you are.

Brie Tucker 

Can you say, can you say textbook ADD?

JoAnn

It’s so bad. then like yesterday I wanted to describe to my son and so I was getting dressed in the hotel room and in the middle of brushing my teeth I noticed that my shirt was still hanging around my neck. So I put my shirt on but then I saw the toothbrush on the counter and I’m like, I’m gonna brush my teeth and I forgot to put the rest of the shirt on. I, Brie, so hard.

I mean, you could relate, I’m sure, right? Yes.

Brie Tucker 

Yes, yes. my God. Like I, it’s crazy. Like when I get left alone in my house, which is very rare, but when I managed to get that alone time, it’s scary because what happens is Bree is like, I’m going to go get an extra big coffee today because like I wear people out when I have caffeine in my system, as you know, especially when it’s too much. So I’m like, I’m going to get an extra big coffee. I’m going to be crazy as hell. And I’m going to like clean up this whole house. And then what happens is you have 15 half

finish tasks from me. Cause I’ll be like, I’m going to clean out the closet. And then as I’m cleaning out the closet, if I, this needs to be returned downstairs to the garage. I’m going to clean out this cabinet. This will be really fast. And then you’re like, but this needs to go in the trash. you know what? The trash cans could really use a good washing. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. get it. Yeah.

JoAnn 

Okay.

Yeah, that’s how it is. It’s how it is. it’s funny. Whenever I talk to people who don’t have ADHD and they’re able to stay focused, I’m like, how do you stay focused? And I really think it’s just because we all have different brains. I don’t think that’s possible for my brain, but I think I can excel in other areas.

Brie Tucker

Stitches.

Brie Tucker 

Yes! my god, you kick my ass in many, other areas for sure. But yeah, yeah.

JoAnn 

No, but we both have the ADHD brain. It’s not about me kicking your ass in other areas. We both have that brain. So you have these talents as well.

Brie Tucker 

No, we do. We do, we do. But I mean, like you get, I do not get as hyper-focused as some other people do. I get moderately focused.

JoAnn 

I can do the hyper focus. I can, but it has to be intensely interesting to me.

Brie Tucker 

Well, exactly, it has to be intensely interesting to me to do that. But I could, yeah, I could see myself all day working on a graphic design, because I’m just interested in it. So yeah, but, come.

JoAnn 

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It happens. But our guest today is all about taking care of yourself first as a mom, which I think we’re talking about, where like we have different brains than other people do. And so you need to make sure that you put yourself first. And she has a five step process that she goes through with us on this podcast episode.

Brie Tucker 

Mm-hmm.

JoAnn 

So we want to introduce you to Kathy Sullivan. She’s a board certified coach, founder and owner of Talent Principles, an executive coaching and organizational development consultancy. She’s the author of the book, Moms Eat First, and she’s the mom of two kids ages 19 and 10. She helps people gain clarity about what is important and establish a path to create the change they want for themselves. So we hope you enjoy our interview with Kathy.

PLAY INTRO MUSIC

JoAnn 

That’s not a pretty look. yeah, I had stuff during a live.

Brie Tucker 

did you? I didn’t even notice.

funny how that kind of goes with the mom’s eat last and you had stuff stuck in your teeth.

JoAnn 

No, it’s true. It’s true, Kathy. I’m sure you can identify with that being the one like you’re running around the house like crazy. And then you get in front of the camera to do your work. And you’re like, I am not ready to mentally do this at all. So Kathy, you’re the mom of two kids. They’re 19 and 10. And I I’ve really enjoyed reading your book, Moms Eat Fert.

Kathy 

I can. It happens to me.

JoAnn 

No, I wanted to say moms eat last and like that it totally messed it. So let me try that one again. I really enjoyed reading your book moms eat first. It’s really hard to say its title because I want to say moms eat last, it’s not it’s moms eat first. It’s so important. And I loved hearing your story about raising kids and being in California and then deciding a totally new direction for your life. my gosh. Tell me more about that.

Kathy 

Yeah.

Brie Tucker 

Right?

Kathy 

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so on a personal note, I’ve been divorced for a long time and have been the primary caregiver for my two kids for all of that time. As you mentioned, my daughter’s 19. She’s in her second year in college. My son is 10 and he’s in fifth grade. you know, I think really the catalyst for writing this book, I would say the ideas have been churning for quite a few years and then the pandemic really shifted it into overdrive for me.

and part of what happened was I knew my son had already been diagnosed with ADHD and, anxiety as well, but that was, think, really the first, really good insight I got into what he was struggling with in the classroom, because now I was noticing he was struggling to sit down. And I also was running my own business by that time and was trying to, you know,

do my client work while my two kids are trying to be homeschooled, trying to manage all of that on my own. And so all of the, think that was really just the catalyst for me. So on a personal note, that was kind of my experience, but also the work that I do as a consultant and executive coach has really given me some opportunities to gain some insights from other moms, primarily working women.

JoAnn 

That’s a lot.

Kathy 

And it was those things that I think really just, you know, allowed me to, or gave me the opportunity to realize that moms are always serving everyone else first.

JoAnn 

They totally are. Totally are. And you had a pretty well-paying established career, too, when you decided to go into coaching. And I love how in the book you really go through all your thinking about when you decided to give that up. And also, your cross-country move and convincing your ex to move with you as well, Kathy.

Brie Tucker 

Truth!

Kathy 

You

Brie Tucker 

to hear this. That’s some Jedi mind trickery going on there.

Kathy 

Yeah. Well, so some context is maybe important. and my ex and I have a very good relationship now, I should add. And, you know, as I think many women, I don’t want to say everyone experiences, and I will say for me, I think part of it was just how you’re raised, what you dream about when you get married. And, you know, what I realized is that

JoAnn 

Yes, please. How did you, how did that happen?

Brie Tucker 

Yeah. Yeah.

Kathy 

kind of everything was defaulting to he’s the primary breadwinner. He makes more money, therefore I should stay at home. you know, we had already divorced by this time when I got pregnant with my son. In the midst of all of that, my mom had been diagnosed with cancer. So she was back East. That is really the primary reason I decided to move right from California to Ohio. And, you know, by then I just

It was evident to me and I knew it was going to be evident to him that I had made a lot of sacrifices to support him and our family. And having that conversation was in short what I’ll say easier than I anticipated. But in part, it’s in hindsight, I also realized that I knew what he stood for. So I knew the values side of things. He was going to understand where I was coming from.

I also knew it was going to be a difficult negotiation because I was really taking his daughter right away. and he didn’t immediately follow. He, he, it was about a year later that they, decided to move to Ohio as well. and that was really important, you know, for our daughter. My son has a different dad. So, yeah, it was, it was quite a complex situation, but in the end, I feel, you know, very fortunate to have been able to do that.

JoAnn 

Yeah, it’s amazing when you talk about it because you, like so many women, like give up a lot to support your husband’s career. And I mean, I fell into that mindset too. I gave up my career because I was a teacher. I loved being a teacher, but I could not see being a teacher and paying for a thousand dollar a month daycare, which is what it is over out here in Phoenix. And

doing everything basically by my own because my husband’s job requires him to be there in the office from like 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. So you see like those work hours for guys and you feel like you have no choice in the matter because we can’t they can’t support you can’t support the family on a teacher salary and to like it just makes looks like it makes financial sense but

Kathy 

Yeah.

JoAnn 

I also love what you said, like you made the move and you did what was right for you. And then he eventually followed because I feel like so many moms don’t do that. So many of us never make the decision that is right for us. Have you seen that too, Cathy and your coaching clients and the women you work with?

Kathy 

Yeah, and a couple of things you just hit on, Joanne, really resonate because I think part of it, and I talk about this in the book a little bit, these are ingrained values and kind of social norms, traditions. It might be a combination of all of those things and tied with kind of our personality and how we operate that I think contribute to the what we do and the why we don’t do what we should do.

Brie Tucker 

Yeah.

Kathy 

But I definitely see that with some of my clients. And I think that some of this also carries over into the workplace. And even hearing you talk about many men, think there’s this idea that men are the providers. If they work a lot of hours, that’s like we have to accept that. And what I often encourage women and men to do is to ask. But we have to get clarity around what it is we want. And then we have to.

lean into the discomfort of having that hard conversation because many times we can get support or we can get some of what we’re asking for, but instead we kind of sit back and think about this is, it is what it is.

JoAnn 

It’s really hard to have those conversations because with me and my husband, I started having those conversations right away as soon as I was home. I’m like, this is unlike, we can’t go on like this. And it’s interesting because men also have the pressure from the workforce that if they have a boss that stays there for like 12 hours a day,

Brie Tucker 

Yeah.

Kathy 

Yes.

JoAnn 

that really doesn’t have a family life, that doesn’t even want to go home to their family. That boss has a very hard time having any compassion or understanding for the guy who wants to go home to his family and wants to make it easy. like for us, it went on for eight, nine years. And my husband now has taken over the department and we’re finally seeing the change because he’s the one in charge and making the changes for the family members.

So I just want to put that out there that like these conversations, they take huge amounts of time to make change and having the mental strength and the energy to go through those things when you’re balancing everything as a mom, it’s incredibly difficult. Like how did you do it in your own life, Kathy, when you were balancing all the things?

Brie Tucker 

Yeah.

JoAnn 

and still making these changes that were good for you.

Kathy 

Well, I think at the time, you know, part of it was just operating in figure it out mode, which is kind of how I have always navigated life. And, you know, for me, think part of it being type A and, you know, looking for challenges, it was a little bit like, okay, I’ve got a problem in front of me. I got to figure out how to solve it. Right. That’s just how I operate. But in hindsight, as a coach now, I certainly have developed a lot more self-awareness. I have more tools.

I’ve gained a lot more emotional intelligence. I’ve developed those capabilities, and that’s really helped me. So in hindsight, think tapping into what I’m feeling, I think my reaction to things in the past could have been better managed, whether that was with my ex at work, with my kids. So I think that awareness has been really helpful for me. And then again, the tools to kind of regulate that.

you know, as far as the hard conversations, think a lot of it is about preparation. We anticipate how people are gonna respond and that oftentimes, you know, causes us to avoid having the conversation. We’re afraid of how people are gonna respond. We’re afraid of hurting the relationship. So I think preparation is a big piece of it too.

Brie Tucker 

Yeah.

JoAnn 

100%. Like I have conversations or I have things that in my life I find like upset me, but I can’t talk about it yet. I have to talk about it with like a neutral party because I don’t yet know how I feel about it or what exactly is the thing that’s triggering me about it. And many times I find it’s nothing the other person is doing whatsoever. It’s all like me and like my systems of being. It’s crazy like that.

Kathy 

Yeah.

JoAnn 

Now you have five principles that moms can use as a framework to prioritize themselves. And I want to get into those right after this break.

We’re back from break. So Cathy, in your book, Moms Eat First, you have five principles that moms can use as a framework to prioritize themselves. What are those principles? Just listing them off really quickly, and then we’ll dig more into each of them.

Kathy 

Well, the first principle is about reflection. its reflection is key to self-preservation. The second principle is about rediscovering what’s important. The third one is about resetting priorities. The fourth one is about reclaiming power, and that’s particularly when we experience adversity. And the fifth one is really around releasing what you can’t control.

So those, the five principles really revolve around what I refer to the five Rs.

JoAnn 

Others. The five Rs. So let’s start with that first one because we kind of touched on it a little bit, but that reflection piece like what what can moms do in terms of reflection?

Kathy 

Yes.

I think part of it is just kind of exploring patterns of behavior, right? That’s a little bit. And also understanding what we value. I think at the end of the day, we have to really understand what drives our behavior, what’s really key and core to who we are and what we want to continue to develop, if you will, and really focus on. And some of that I think is important just to understand how we align our decisions.

Sometimes we operate outside of our values. And sometimes we have to redefine those values, which are beliefs based on things we were raised to believe or we don’t believe is really serving us anymore.

Brie Tucker 

Yeah.

JoAnn 

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it’s funny too, and what causes our behavior. I was with my sister and my sister was having a conversation with her partner and they were talking about like, who’s gonna pick their son up from school. And in the middle of the conversation, her partner brought up something with, know, the school is kind of far away. It’d be really easier if he went to the neighborhood school at which my sister completely shut down and like was like, fine, I’ll just take him to school.

And I saw that and I’m like, my gosh, like she is repeating something that I saw happen in our house amongst my parents all the time. And it’s one of those things where when you realize you reflect on it and you’re repeating history, I think that’s the time that you can really make a change.

Kathy 

Mm-hmm.

Brie Tucker 

That’s where it’s interesting because like, I’m sure if you had said to your sister, you know, you’re acting just like mom or dad, she’d be like, no, I’m not. What you talking about? I know, right? Luckily my sisters and I, we do have that relationship. We’ll be like, whoa, hi, mom. Hey dad, how are you? But yeah, that’s crazy. Yeah.

JoAnn 

yeah, I can’t bring it up to her. There’s no way.

Yeah.

Kathy 

But it’s interesting you picked up on that, right? That observation, and it’s like you noticed that was a cue for you, right?

JoAnn 

It was, but I’ve done a lot of my own reflection. I’ve been through therapy a lot. know how behaviors repeat and I’ve gone from the point of like being reactive on those behaviors to like noticing what I want my response to be and then stopping myself and being like, is this really the best thing? Probably not. And able to like give myself kind of comfort like in there, but she’s not there yet.

Kathy 

Mm-hmm.

JoAnn 

And I got how I hope she’s not listening because I’m going to get serious trouble for this. We love you. We love you. And if you hear this, this is how I’m going to tell you. This I’m telling you there’s help. There’s help. Let’s move on to your second. It’s the discovering what’s important or what to focus on. Tell me more about that.

Brie Tucker 

If she is, we love you. We love you. I’m not going to throw out your name, but we love you.

Kathy 

Yeah. Yes. So rediscovering possibilities is essential to feeding your soul. And this is really about, you know, thinking about the things you want for yourself. Again, in the spirit of the book, in the sense of we often put the needs of others ahead of ourselves. And sometimes we have to do that, right, for our children and their safety. But it’s really about exploring what are the things you’ve always wanted for yourself outside of your role as a mom, outside of your career in dreamingwithout constraints.

JoAnn 

Mm-hmm. So like, we do this very well in our, like, people in our balance program go through this with like the purpose, because the thing I hear from so many moms is that, you know, I really want to do this, but I need to wait until my kids are grown up. Like, it’s pretty common.

Kathy 

Yeah. It’s funny. just, well, yeah. And timing is of course important, but in the last week I’ve talked with two moms and they actually said, gosh, I don’t know what I want. Like they haven’t had the time to even sit back and think about what they want for themselves. So that’s again, comes back to the reflection piece. But I think when you can make that time and really think about in daydream about

Brie Tucker 

There’s always gonna be something. There’s always gonna be something you have to wait for. Trust me.

JoAnn 

Mm-hmm.

Kathy 

What do you want? Forget about the fact that you have kids and there’s other constraints. It’s really about just dreaming.

Brie Tucker 

Now I’m gonna say this piece here. don’t recommend this method, but I’m curious, Kathy, as a fellow divorcee here, do you feel like divorce could be a catalyst for figuring out those priorities of like, crap, who am I and what am I if I’m not a wife and a mom 24 seven? Right? Like it’ll throw you through the fires and you’ll be able to figure it out, but I wouldn’t recommend that path if you’re just looking for enlightenment.

Kathy 

for sure, for sure.

Well, I think immediately following, at least for me, you’re kind of in survival mode and just trying to do what you can to keep things together. But I think when you get to a point where you’re more settled, absolutely.

Brie Tucker

Yeah. Yeah.

JoAnn 

It’s hard. Like I think that if you don’t have the space to dream right now, looking back on it, it probably means that you need more support in your life. You need more people helping you out. You need more people coming through. We just talked with another podcast guest this morning who has a nanny and she was describing like what happens with the nanny where like she’s able to focus on her business. She has a business. So that’s, know, the funding there.

Kathy 

Yeah.

JoAnn 

for the nanny, because it’s very expensive to get childcare in this country. But I also see a lot of moms who have the means to get the help and then refuse to get the help because they think that they should be doing it all on their own. And that’s where we run into kind of the tricky issue of how do you create that space to find your dreams and what you care for when you’re so

Kathy Yeah.

JoAnn 

busy all the time with kids and their needs. Like it’s a real thing and it’s problem. I don’t know if there’s an out from, like do you see an out from it?

Kathy 

Yeah.

Brie Tucker 

or an easy.

Kathy 

And this is why I say timing, right, can be important. And I also recognize there’s a lot of women out there that don’t have the resources and all of that that I’ve been privileged to have. So some of it might be just a matter of, like I said, getting through a certain timeframe and where your kids are and the season of life that you’re in. But it is important because

I think when we are constantly serving people around us, that is what can contribute to overwhelm, right? Stress, depression, substance abuse, you know, the list goes on. So really important.

Brie Tucker 

Yep.

JoAnn 

Yeah, and like that feeling of anger and you just want to scream when you’re serving others. Like I had the moment this morning where I asked my son to start boiling water on the stove because he really likes poached eggs. And I’m like, I’m to go do my ab workout if you could just boil water on the stove. And he called down. He’s like, Mom, I spilled water. And I’m like, OK, well, I’m just I’m doing my workout. I’ll be right up. I come. It is like a lake in my kitchen, like a lake in my kitchen.

Kathy 

Yes.

Brie Tucker 

No!

JoAnn 

And he is like playing video games because he’s also like, he gets very easily overwhelmed. He has tantrums, like he’s trying skills to work through it. He was calm, you know, he did something to make him calm. Lake in my kitchen. And I’m here like trying to clean up the lake with the towel, trying to make breakfast for him because he was just, you know, in the hospital. We need to make sure that he has a proper diet. Trying to like, I wanted to fricking scream. Like I was so mad at everyone and everyone around me because it’s like,

Kathy 

Yeah.

JoAnn

Who was taking care of me in that moment? buddy. Buddy was there.

Kathy 

that story that resonates with me. I got to the point and I don’t do this consistently, but I call him back in now and I’m like, there’s the towel, you’re cleaning that up. And that’s the accountability piece, right? That I feel like I have taken on too much of that I shouldn’t have.

JoAnn 

Yeah, it’s interesting though, because when you have a kid who is on like neurodiverse, you are constantly weighing the, okay, is this the right, really the right time to do the accountability piece? Because if I have the accountability piece right now, he is going to throw a massive tantrum that I am then going to feel responsible for and have to control those emotions for. And so it’s like this constant weighing of things like being a mom is so damn hard. And so if you’re listening to this right now, yeah.

Brie Tucker 

You’re thinking through everything. I feel like our brains look like that scene from the Matrix. I think it was like the last one or whatever, where he goes into like the master guy’s room and there’s like a bazillion TVs with all the possible reactions. I feel like that is a mom’s brain 24 seven. We are like assessing every situation and every possible outcome and trying to find the best option.

JoAnn 

Yeah.

Brie Tucker 

for everybody, but just like Joanne and Kathy, like you two said, most of the time when we pick that outcome, our needs are chucked out the window. We’re just like, okay, what saves the numbers? What saves the most amount of people? Because they’re worth more than me. And I know that we don’t believe it, but at the same time, there’s a piece of us that does believe it.

JoAnn 

True.Very true.

It does. And I think that really goes in well to the third piece in your framework, discovering those priorities, which we are going to dig into right after this. So when we have all these things being thrown at us, Kathy, like how do we make priorities?

Kathy 

gosh, I think, first let me say, think sometimes, well, it’s important to recognize that our priorities are often commingled with other people’s priorities, right? Be it your spouse, your children, your work. But again, in the spirit of this book and what I’m trying to help create for women, which is really agency, it is about looking at…

based on what’s important to you and the change that you want for yourself, what are the top three things that you need to do to achieve that? So it’s dwindling down all of the things that you maybe feel you have to do to get there, but it’s really focusing on a couple of things and moving in that direction.

JoAnn 

Hmm. And having that agency. That’s so interesting. There was a recent interview with current vice president Kamala Harris, where she discussed a story with her mother. And she came to her mother and was like, you know what, was a fight. Like someone threatened me or someone did something to me at school. And this happened. And her mom looked at her and was like, what did you do? And it was all along those lines of not

making her at fault for it, but really showing her that, you know, this was a situation that you didn’t have a loss of control in. There are certain things that you could have controlled in this and giving her back that agency that you’re talking about right here. I feel like so many women give that up, their agency and their sense of control.

Kathy

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I, it’s funny. just, came from a school, the school this morning with the teachers, the principal to talk about my son’s plan. And I asked, I asked that he be in the room for that primary reason to ensure that he has a voice and can communicate what he needs to develop those capabilities. And yeah, I think for whatever reason, there’s probably a lot of things that contribute to, you know, people not

Brie Tucker 

Mm-hmm.

Kathy 

sharing what their needs are, I think it’s really important to identify what those priorities are and make them known.

Brie Tucker 

please tell me they had him there, that they were like, yeah, sure. Okay, great.

Kathy

Yes, yeah, I mean they were very supportive of that, yeah.

Brie Tucker 

Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, our whole job, teachers, parents, is to help raise children, to cultivate them, to be able to be happy, well-functioning members of society. And that does include, I don’t know, being able to articulate and say things for yourself instead of having mom and dad do it all. Like, I have two teenagers and it cracks me up the amount of work it takes just to get those guys to make a phone call.

JoAnn 

that’s excellent.

Kathy 

Yeah.

Brie Tucker 

Right?

JoAnn 

it’s hard. It’s hard. It’s so funny with like the whole like making teenagers accountable for things. Bri and I are both going to a concert tonight with our teens and I am taking one of my daughter and her friends and I just got a text message from one of her friend’s parents thinking that like her daughter’s friend took care of the restaurant reservation because we’re going out to dinner before. They did it.

Kathy 

Yes, experience that too.

JoAnn 

They took care of the restaurant reservation. They’re like, my wife made it for five. Is that enough time? And I’m like, ooh, she didn’t do it. I would have made my daughter do this one. She delegated it. She delegated it to mom. She delegated it to mom. What do you suggest women do with their power? How can they, your fourth principle?

Kathy 

She delegated it, it sounds like.

Brie Tucker 

Yes

Kathy 

So principle four is, admit adversity. can reclaim power through choice. So this was important, I felt, because many times when we’re trying to create change for ourselves, when we experience obstacles or things that scare us, we minimize things. We lower our expectations or we give up. So what I really want to instill here is for people to think about when you are

JoAnn 

Mm-hmm.

Kathy 

uncomfortable, that’s usually an opportunity to really lean into that a little bit and practice what you’re trying to change. Right? So you talked about getting frustrated earlier, and certainly I experienced that a lot with my kids. And I think those are, again, the examples that I use a lot of, is this the mom I want to be? If I have a choice here, right, to either

calm down, talk to my son differently or yell at him. And if I want a strong relationship with him in time where he talks to me openly and is transparent, then I’m probably going to get that better by remaining calm and trying to talk more constructively with him.

JoAnn 

Yeah, that’s a great way to reclaim your power in this situation too. I mean, this morning with me, I was like, I’m going to scream, I’m going to lose it. I turned on my Spotify playlist and I did some deep breathing while I was doing it. And then I was okay when he came into the kitchen, but you’re totally right. Like there are choices in every situation and you can reclaim the power in the situation based on how you react and what you control.

Kathy

Yes. Yeah, and think also, you know, it might also be, you know, if you’re trying to, you know, adapt roles with your partner or someone at work, like we get into the moment of getting resistance from the person we’re trying to influence or have change with. And that’s sometimes when we give up, when it’s our opportunity to stand our ground, right?

especially if you have the type of personality that’s a people pleaser. Like we have to know who we are and what our tendencies are. And that’s where we’ve got to lean a little bit into our discomfort to sometimes get what we want and then deal with the ramifications. And it’s those that often prevent us from, you know, reclaiming our true power.

Brie Tucker

Yep.

JoAnn 

yeah, I know exactly what you’re talking about because I am a people pleaser to the core.

Kathy 

Bye.

Brie Tucker 

think that’s in the DNA of like most females. Some people have a 1%, other people have a 99.9%, you know, it just kind of depends.

Kathy 

You

JoAnn 

Yeah.

Yeah, because I mean, honestly, in that situation where somebody like tells me something back and it just happened this morning, actually, my son didn’t want to drive back to school. And so he was telling me all these things because he’s mountain biking and he uses the same bike. And he’s like, yeah, well, my friends on mountain biking were telling me that it’s not good to leave your bike out because it’ll rust and it’ll like my helmet will get destroyed, whatever. And I’m here thinking, my gosh, there’s resistance. I’ll just I’ll just drive them.

JoAnn 

And I’m like, no. First of all, rust doesn’t really exist in Arizona. It doesn’t. You need rain and water for that. It doesn’t happen.

Brie Tucker

Not during a school day, it sure doesn’t.

JoAnn

Not during a school day. But it’s interesting you say that because that was my first instinct. was like, I’ll just give up and it’s too much. yeah, which I think goes perfectly into your fifth one. These are so, so logically oriented, Kathy. It’s like you thought this out beforehand and really had to work out what is what your fifth one releasing what you can’t control.

Brie Tucker

They flow well.

Kathy 

So the last one is peace prevails when you release what you can’t control. Now, this is, you know, obvious. We have to think about what is within our span of control, but admittedly, I know for many years I was trying to control things that weren’t mine to control. And that includes, right? People’s responses, like you have to realize you can’t control. Now you can maybe change your approach to…

JoAnn 

Bree’s like, yes, yes.

Kathy 

you know, minimize or lessen their response or reaction to things. But that’s part of it. But I also think that we have to recognize, you know, the beliefs. The letting go of things, I think, is it serves many, many different, or I guess addresses a variety of things. And so one of it is like what we physically can and can’t control, but it’s also part of our mindset.

and the false beliefs that we have that we also need to let go of. And the example I think I share in the book is, know, kind of letting go of the belief that I must touch everything. So this again comes back to control.

JoAnn

I must touch everything. It is a hard thing to deal with because,

Brie Tucker 

Well, and I think it’s, sorry. I just jumped right in there. Well, I was going to say like, you heard, okay, for people watching, they saw my reaction. I’m pretty sure everybody heard my reaction. I feel like that’s a huge struggle too, for being in a two, being in a two household family where, right? Like it’s, we try to, I call it environmental engineering. I try to create an environment

that will produce the best results with the least amount of problems that I possibly can. And letting go of the fact that there is nothing I can do because my co-parent and I do not have a very fantastic relationship. There is nothing I can do to control what happens or what choices that person makes that.

Kathy 

Yeah.

Brie Tucker 

directly impact me and my children. It’s hard. It’s hard to release what you can’t control. But on those rare occasions I can. pieces like overwhelming. It’s so nice.

Kathy 

Yeah.

But in the In the bigger picture, So a lot of, know, in the work that I do as a consultant and a coach, I’m often working with organizations, setting priorities. And when you think about it in the bigger scheme of things, we have to ask ourselves, how important is this really? Whatever it is I’m trying to control and does it align with my bigger goal? And that can be really hard, no doubt.

JoAnn 

You can be and releasing the things that you don’t want to, you don’t feel like you need to, because in your book, you talk about this good mom syndrome that you have to be like all the things that do it, like spend quality time with crafts, being involved, parent, all those, all those things that when someone actually agrees to take on something, like last night, my husband agreed to Halloween decorate with my daughter. I almost felt like I was not fulfilling my roles as a mom and that’s a really, really hard thing to work through mindset wise to know that like, hey, some of these problems that I’m causing with my overwhelm, I feel like I’m putting on myself based on thought patterns, like you said. Well, Kathy, it has been so wonderful talking with you and you listening. I hope that these principles can help guide you in a life of prioritizing yourself and definitely go pick up Kathy’s book, La Moms Eat First. And Kathy, we will talk to you later.

Kathy

Yeah.

Can I add one more thing? I did. You know, I, should I say that quickly or?

Brie Tucker 

Did you want to throw anything in, Cathy, real fast? Okay, go ahead.

JoAnn 

yeah!

Brie Tucker 

Well, JoAnn has to go is our only thing. So Joanne, you can go while she gives me the feed for what she needs to say.

Kathy 

she’s she, okay.

JoAnn 

out that’s why yeah. Okay cool, well was nice meeting you, Cathy.

Kathy 

Likewise, JoAnn, thank you for your time today.

JoAnn  

Bye.

Brie Tucker  

Okay, so yeah, did you wanna talk about the, what did you wanna add in?

Kathy  

I just, the portions of the proceeds from the book sales are going to go. So if you’re going to say that, okay.

Brie Tucker 

wanted to talk about that too. Yeah, well, let me just bring you up on that one and then I’ll wedge this in right before Joanne signed out. So Cathy, you have a really important organization that you are participating in and helping share the proceeds from your book about. Will you tell us a little bit about Moms First?

Kathy 

Yes. So, you know, the book, as you said, a portion of the proceeds I want to provide to an organization called Moms First. It’s a nonprofit, and they are really focused on more structural changes to help women thrive in communities and in workplaces. And there’s three primary things that they’re focused on, which is paid family leave, affordable childcare, and equity and pay for moms. So I wanted to share that. Yeah. Thank you for mentioning that.

Brie Tucker 

Yes. Yes!

That is so, so important these days, for sure, especially with everything going on with our political climate and the elections coming up. Definitely check out Moms First. Before we wrap up, can you tell us what’s coming up for you right now here in October that you’re excited about?

Kathy 

Yeah.gosh, I’ve got a little bit of travel coming up. You know, I think some of the way in which I’m taking care of myself is learning and development. So I’ve got a trip to New York coming up on my own and just, I think, more self-development. Yeah.

Brie Tucker 

Yeah, I think that’s awesome. I think all of us having that growth, just, it sometimes can be uncomfortable in the moment, but it feels fantastic once you’re through it. Well, thank you so much for taking your time to meet with us today, Kathy. It was fantastic. And yes, please everybody go out and get Kathy’s book, Moms Eat First. It’s fantastic. There’s a link in the show notes. And Kathy, I look forward to getting to work with you more in the future.

Kathy 

Yes.

Thanks for your time, Bri and Joanne today.

JoAnn 

I love talking with Kathy because she has such like easy to follow concrete steps, which actually kind of mirror what we do in our balance communities.

Brie Tucker

going to say like in talking to her with her five principles reflection, rediscovering priorities, power, releasing what you can’t control. I, I, yeah, I was like, this sounds very familiar. I think I like her advice is what I would say.

JoAnn 

It is. It is what we find. Yeah, it’s interesting because it is the way to get out of putting yourself last all the time. It’s like you really have to have insight into first the behaviors that you have that are actually harming what you want in life. Like I think about this a lot because I’m actually going to go back into therapy. Like next week I have an appointment because I’m seeing I have some behaviors of mine.

that are preventing me from moving forward. Most more, I have some imposter syndrome going on so much to the fact that I feel like I’m going to get arrested and incarcerated and people are gonna find me out anytime that I am not qualified to do this, even though I’ve been coaching women for 10 years, like and writing about this topic and writing, I wrote two books that help families like have been a teacher, have my master’s degree.

Brie Tucker 

Imposter syndrome is real, girl. Woo!

JoAnn

in education, like everything. And when you have all those thoughts and you have those beliefs, they come out in your actions. And that is something that we can control. We can control our actions. Can’t always control our thoughts. They pop in anytime they want, but you can start controlling what you do with those thoughts. And sometimes what I do is a lot of self-sabotaging. And what I didn’t understand self-sabotaging before, but,

Brie Tucker

Truth.

JoAnn 

reading this new book that I’m reading called Impostor Syndrome. And we can put a link in the comments because I don’t remember the title right now. But like I will avoid the things that I don’t think I will immediately excel at. Like I will push them away so hard and avoid doing them or I will not give myself enough time to complete them. Therefore sabotaging my performance on them. Things like.

huge projects or things like ideas I have and I don’t give myself enough time to actually implement the ideas because I have to do it right away. Because if I give myself the time, then what if I wasted that time? And then what if I fail? And I’m like, this is, this is a big pile of crap I need to deal with. So, so therapy it is.

Brie Tucker 

coaching difficult when you’re dealing with a serious dose of imposter syndrome. I certainly would say that for sure. and.

JoAnn 

I coach really well other people, but it’s not my own life that I’m like, like you see it. And I think I see this, especially when I’m coaching other people is I’m like, am I actually able to say that I’m able to do to myself what I can see so clearly in their path? And I’m like, I’m not. And I think everyone needs a coach. Even coaches need a coach. They need a coach. And so.

Brie Tucker 

Yeah, they say that too about therapy. Everybody could benefit from therapy and therapists should check in and have therapy sessions every so often to just make sure they’re doing okay. So yeah, yeah, that’s definitely a thing.

JoAnn 

Yeah. So the reflection is huge.

Brie Tucker 

Yeah, yeah. so I’m gonna, I’m gonna say that I absolutely loved our conversation with Cathy, absolutely loved her book. So definitely go out and check out her book, Moms Eat First, Five Principles to Prioritize Yourself and Create the Change You Crave, because it is super helpful. And like we talked about, all the proceeds go to the nonprofit Moms First. So it’s a win-win, it’s a win-win.

JoAnn 

That’s a pretty cool thing. Okay. Until next time, remember the best mom’s a happy mom. Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later.

Brie Tucker 

Thanks for stopping by.