Podcast Episode 327: Creating Abundance for Yourself Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

I think that there’s this crazy phenomenon where people feel as though they don’t have the right. We honestly eat the crumbs because we feel like there’s something aggressive about asking for a ton in our life. Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast. I am your host JoAnn Crohn joined here by delightful Brie Tucker. Why hello, hello, everybody. How are you?

We have the best episode for you today. I mean, you’re going to leave this episode feeling so much lighter and so have so much more insight into how to attract bigger things into your life. But before we get into it, Brie, I mean, we have to ask you guys, please share this episode with a friend. If you have a mom friend right now who is struggling, who is down, who’s just depressed and feels like the weight of the world is just on her shoulders, share this episode with her because it is really going to make a difference.

in her life, especially with the guests that we have today. mean, Brie, our guest is pretty amazing. She is fantastic. I was going to say the words that come to mind with today’s podcast episode are authentic, abundant, inspiration, vibes, vibin’ is big. She has got some positive vibes that just radiate to all of us. And she has tons of great stories, like hanging out in the music studio with Lady Gaga. In her lucky apartment. that got her married? How that is possible. I swear it was crazy. Yeah, it’s amazing. So our guest today is Kathy Heller. She’s a dynamic transformational coach, spiritual guide, meditation teacher and inspirational speaker. She’s also the host of the Abundant Ever After podcast and the author of the new book, which I totally recommend you should go and get right now Abundant Ever After. And with that, let’s get on with the show.

INTRO

You want mom life to be easier. That’s our goal too. Our mission is to raise more self-sufficient and independent kids, we’re going to have fun doing it. We’re going to help you delegate and step back. Each episode, we’ll tackle strategies for positive discipline, making our kids more responsible and making our lives better in the process. Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast.

Cathy to the podcast. It’s funny, just, got on and you’re like, my gosh, my husband scheduled the internet repair man and I’m down here in a new office. I have to say, I relate. I had the oven repair man show up three hours ahead of schedule. So he’s right upstairs right now working and he only speaks Russian and I don’t know if he understood when I said that it’s, have to be here till 12, 15. So we, it’s going to be a good one, Cathy. It’s going to be a good one.

Well, I love the name of your podcast and I feel like it gives so much permission for us to just be very messy because who isn’t messy? And so yeah, it’s perfect. It’s perfect that we have such normal real lives. Yeah. yeah. It’s messy. It’s real. It’s normal. I got your book very recently at the beginning of the week and I have to say I’ve been reading it every time at bedtime and it just puts me in such an uplifted and good mood. Good.

I absolutely love it. I absolutely love it. So I have a lot I want to ask you about it and I have a lot I want to talk about about it. So first of all, I have to say that your life story is absolutely fascinating. Like all of the things that you have first accomplished, but also just experienced and done and seen and all those things. And I don’t want to get into all of them. That’s why you got to get the book. Go get her book, Abundant Ever After.

But I do want to focus on your songwriting experience, that story that you told when you were in LA, you were driving down the freeway, you had just signed on to your record label and you got the call where they’re like, are you home yet? call me when you get home. Can you take us back to there and tell us about that? Yeah. And by the way, I love that every interview I do, people pull out different parts of the story because it makes it so fun. you know, for…

For all the spiritual, cool ideas that are in the book, what I think is really powerful is just like some of the most regular moments of my life. And that moment of driving on the 10 freeway in Los Angeles and getting a call from Ron Farrad in her scope and pulling off to the side of the freeway, in the moment it felt like a low point. And then it really in reflection was sort of like part of my like.

the montage reel of the movie of my life because yeah, I had gotten a record deal when I got to LA, which was my dream. And I was sitting with Lady Gaga, she was recording Paparazzi and I was at Sunset Sounds watching her record that. And I was like, so like I’ve arrived and then I got dropped from the label. So when he called me, very nonchalant, he’s like, just call me when you get home if you’re driving. I’m like, no, no, no, I’m gonna pull over. And then he’s like.

Yeah, we don’t think that any of these songs are a number one single. Ron Fair had signed Vanessa Carlton. Make him a way downtown, walk him fast and home bound. So like that was the sort of songs that I was writing and none of those songs were gonna be top singles. Music had been changing. We’re leaving the Sheryl Crow, moving into like big, you know, pop songs and I didn’t have a pop song. So that was it, I got dropped. And then I wound up being told by my friends, Kath, grow up, be realistic.

go get a real job, just go make money. Making money becomes your role then, not passion, but money. I’m like, okay, well, how do you make the most amount of money? And my friend was like, you can either work in real estate or you can work in finance. Those are the ways to make the most amount of money. And so my life really usually works out through synchronicity. Like I’ll turn a thought into a thing usually within seconds. So the next day I’m standing in line and this guy has this conversation with me. And next thing I know, he’s like, you have a great personality. I run a commercial real estate firm in Brentwood. You should come work for me.

Perfect, real estate, ding, ding, ding, let’s go. And I worked for him for two years and he sold $100 million shopping centers. And so I bought my little CLK coupe Mercedes and I went to anthropology and I bought a couch and I was like, my God, I’m 25 and I’m making, you know, 200 grand a year. Cause I’m like, so made it. And then two years in, I was standing looking at myself in the elevator door and I was like, I don’t know who this girl is. Like she’s wearing a double-breasted suit. I don’t know who she is, like myself.

So I quit my job and then I realized very quickly, well, that wasn’t smart because my parents have been divorced since I was a kid. My mom’s a single mom. No one’s going to send me money. Like, what was I doing? And I thought about going get my job back. And then I was like, no, I didn’t come out to LA to not be myself. And I thought about if I was a guitar and instead of being a guitar, I was holding a potted plant inside the neck of the guitar. Like I wasn’t being myself. And so I decided to be determined.

And I remember Tony Robbins saying on one of his tapes that I had when I was 15 that would play in my old Volvo when I was learning to drive. And he used to say, ask a good question. Always ask a better question. And so I asked a new question, which was, is there any other way that I can make a living besides being a recording artist? Like as a songwriter, could I make any other path happen? And I had never asked that question, is there any other way to get paid to be a songwriter? So I Googled it and then all these articles came up about.

Regina Spector and Ingrid Michaelson and all these people that were licensing music to shows at the time like One Tree Hill and commercials. And I’m like, wait, I’ve never thought about licensing my music. So I started cold calling ad agencies and I started talking to music supervisors who chose music for Grey’s Anatomy. And I became good at literally selling them my songs. And so how I did that was I would ask them, what do you need? Like what story are you telling with this ad? What story are you telling with the scene in the movie or in the show?

And they’re like, wow, no one ever asks us that. Like people just send us their demo and they want us to put their songs into our show. But their song is about a girl that they just broke up with named Mallory or like trip they took to Tennessee and the show’s not set in Tennessee and there’s no character named Mallory. So it’s better when you ask us what we need. So I got really good at making relationships with people in the music world. And I wound up making a few hundred grand a year. I wound up making more money licensing my music than I had in.

And then from there, I was featured in Billboard and Variety, full page stories about how it was making half a million dollars a year licensing music. And I thought, they’re going to come running back to me. I was like, my record deal is going to be like so much better than it ever was. That’s incredible. Nope, that didn’t happen. They didn’t actually find that interesting. They’re like, yeah, no. Pop goes the dream. Pop goes the dream. But what did happen is that

So many writers reached out to me and said, how do you do that? And then a friend of mine said, for every song you’ve ever licensed, there’s a line around the block of people who want to license their own song and you should teach a class. And I’m like, teach a class? Does he not think I’m an artist? Like, why would I teach a class? So 10 years in to licensing music full time at the age of 35, from 25 to 35, I licensed my own songs. At 35, I taught a class.

It started in my living room, then it grew to a theater that I rented, then it became an online course and it was for songwriters. And that class made $2 million in the first year of it. And then from that, somebody in my class said, why don’t you start a podcast? And I thought, well, I’m not going to write it. I’m not going to make a podcast about the business of songwriting. That’s not why, that’s not interesting. So I created a podcast at the time it was called, don’t keep your day job. And it was about how do you get paid to be you.

and to live a life that feels purposeful. And the podcast did well. And eventually five years later, once we hit like 40 million downloads, I was like, you know what? I want to talk about something much deeper, which is how do I get into flow state and why have I been successful? What’s my meditation practice like? What’s my spiritual practice like? So I started to sort of pivot into that and people really enjoyed being able to tap into their own sense of higher consciousness. And that’s the whole story.

Absolutely. I love your story because first of all, there are so many questions from looking at it from the outside. I have followed your journey. I listened to your podcast before. I believe we have a similar friend, Ruth Sukup. I love her. Yes, I love her too. Looking at it from the outside, you’re like, my gosh, how does Cathy do all these things? How does she get these opportunities?

How does she like put herself out there and ask for what she’s worth? And you have things that you go into in the book and we’re going to get into that right after this. Kathy, something that I loved in your book is like you were mentioning how you did all these workshops, especially like workshops on abundance and people would come to you and be like, but what’s the strategy? What can I use from there? And you’re always like, I, I don’t have something. This is just like a way of being. Can you explain to us more about

this way of being, particularly like one of the metaphors I really hooked onto was tuning your own radio dial. Yeah, I know. It’s such a beautiful metaphor. And so we often think that the question that we have to answer is what do need to do? And the question we actually need to answer is who do need to be? Because we don’t really perceive reality as it actually is, which is.

We’re in an infinite field of energy, right? And so atoms are made of energy. When I break this down for people, they often like shake their head, like they understand what I’m saying, but we forget it really easily. So the whole world is made of atoms, everything. The shirt I’m wearing, the bones in my body, the trees are in my backyard, and atoms are 99 % energetic.

and less than 1 % particle, which means that the world is a world of frequency. And our greatest contribution to the world is the frequency we bring into a room. And so the most impressive person is not the person who went to the best college, it’s the person who has the best energy. The best compliment you ever get is, God, you have good energy, because energy is literally what we’re constantly transacting with, what we’re constantly transmitting, whether we know it or not. And when you meet someone and you say, I really feel like we’re on the same wavelength, that’s literal.

That’s actual. You will be attracted to that which is on your same wavelength. So the strategy is not to think about what do you need to do and how do you need to move your body through time and space and what action you take. The strategy, the quantum leap is how do you tune your vibration so that you are actually moving the radio dial, so to speak, to put you on a totally different wavelength because that will be what completely changes the opportunities that come into your life.

it will change the way you show up and imprint into this infinite field of energy. So my rabbi in Israel, when I went to Jerusalem after college, I was there for three weeks and I kept extending my trip. stayed there for three years. And this gorgeous metaphor, which is his, he gets the credit, Rabbi David Aaron, he said, if you had a radio and you put the radio here and you turned it on, you would hear music. And then the question to ask yourself is where on earth was the music before you turned on the radio?

And the only answer is that it was already here, hidden in plain sight. So everything is already here. It’s already done. Every potential already exists right here in the quantum field. The thing that we have to do to receive it is to tune our vibration like a radio to hear that particular song. Because a radio can move the dial and hear hip hop music or oldies music or whatever it is. It’s the radio that’s controlling the broadcast. So the life that we believe that we’re observing

we’re not observing it, we’re creating it based upon how we’re tuned. And so when we remember that our job is to be in a state of wholeness and wellbeing and gratitude and awe and wonder and that becomes electricity, no opportunity will miss you. Like you will become so abundant on a material plane because you’re so abundant on a spiritual

I love thinking about it that way. I mean, again, this is why I was reading the book before I go to bed. It just put me in such a lighter mood because a lot of times, like, especially looking at your life, you see that you sold your songs to TV shows. You really put yourself out there. You had this success before, which would be determined success by most people in like commercial real estate. And you say like, when you’re working with women, there are so many things that really people kind of use as not, I don’t want to say excuses, but reasons for why they’re not.

getting to where they are. And those were like the two things you mentioned, which were things that are happening to you outside and things that you don’t have already. Can you talk more to that? Because I’m sure I didn’t get it right. First of all, I really like listening to you talk. was just thinking that, and I also really like your shirt. I was thinking both of those things. I think you do a really good job of sharing the things that you’re thinking. But the answer, I think that’s helpful. When I ask women what they want to manifest in their life, they’re like,

$5 million, a beautiful home, a better relationship, this and that. And all of those things are like, yes, hell yes. Like I say in the book, have the audacity to dream as big as you possibly can. And when I hear that list, I often say to them, I believe with how beautiful that list already is, you have way bigger dreams in them. What you really want more than a pile of things or more than approval from outside of you, because everything on that list is up external.

Right? Money, a relationship that’s all external. And I say what you really actually dream of is the lightness of your own being. Is the feeling of being in flow. Is the feeling of being connected to the divine. Is the feeling of being significant. Is the feeling of being in this like creative download flow state, like courageous, authentic express. They’re like, yeah. Because you could be sitting on the most beautiful beach, staying at the Ritz-Carlton. And if what’s in your head is you just had a fight with your mother-in-law or with your best friend, it doesn’t matter.

what’s outside of you. It matters where you are internally. And so I say that because we’re usually taking this plug, so to speak, and plugging into everything outside of us instead of into our own superpower. Like we all loved going to see Wicked recently because Elphaba realizes that there is no wizard of Oz. She is the wizard. And the point I’m making in this book is you are sitting on gold. You are a mystic. You have the capacity to tap into an endless well of equanimity and authenticity and flow. And there is no amount of stuff that will make you feel as good as living life charged, right? And then when you walk into the room, whether you’re at the DMV or you’re at somebody’s house for a dinner party, you bring the party. Like you project such beautiful energy and then everywhere you are, you feel like you’re in the right place at the right time because life is magnificent because the way you see the world is the way the world will become to you, right? And so,

we get to be these walking lightning rods of this electric sort of radiance. And that has opened every single door for me in my life. And I talk about that in certain stories in the book. One of the stories I use is I’m never, I’m always looking for how to get back into like just a feeling of wellbeing, right? My friend said to me that a pilot worries about takeoff and landing. And then during the flight, the instruments kind of fly themselves. So the only job the pilot has is to,

make sure the plane stays on the flight path and doesn’t drift. And I think that God takes care of takeoff and landing for us, right? We don’t know when we’re gonna be born. We don’t know when we’re gonna die. Our job on the flight path is to make sure we don’t go adrift from the flight path, like stay in alignment, right? That’s our only job. And if we stay in alignment, the flight takes care of itself. And so one of the stories I say in the book is that when I first started my podcast, I went to podcast movement and everybody had business cards and I didn’t have them and everybody’s like running around networking. And I said to my friend,

my God, I feel so stupid. Like I didn’t bring business cards and everybody’s trying to, you know, schmooze with everybody else. And I said, who do you think that they want to meet? And she said, well, they’re looking to collaborate with other podcasters to go on each other’s shows. And then everybody’s dream is to meet the person who runs Apple podcasts, because if Apple were to feature you, it’s like a big deal for your show. And I started to feel really anxious. And so I said, you know what? I’m going to leave the party and I’ll come back when the, event starts after the cocktail hour. So I, I leave.

And I go to a different hotel three blocks away and I sit down, I start feeling relaxed again. Nobody was schmoozing, nobody was on, nobody was trying to like get something from anyone. I just had an iced tea. I’m just having an iced tea in the lobby and this woman is playing piano in the lobby. And right away again, I’m like, what a beautiful moment. I’m at ease. Sure enough, this guy sits down next to me. He has the same badge I have. He was just at that same conference. He’s like, it was crazy in there. I’m like, I know it’s just not my scene.

And we start talking and then he was just so nice. My husband’s from Chicago. He’s from Chicago. We start talking with Midwest. Midwesterners tend to be really nice. I mean, he’s just really like grounded and everything. And then he handed me his card 45 minutes later and he’s like, I’m the head of Apple podcast. You’re the most like, you’re the most like lovely person I’ve met.

Yeah. Literally like every, like my husband and I met because I was looking at this beautiful apartment when I was 25. Yeah. And it was more than I thought I could afford. It was $18.50 a month. And I was like, my God, how am going to afford this? And this woman walked over to me. She was walking up the sidewalk and she’s like, are you going to rent that apartment? And I’m like, I’m thinking about it. And she was like in her sixties or seventies.

And she’s like, well, every girl who rents that apartment gets married. And that’s why it keeps turning over. It’s been rented four years in a row and every girl moves out. She gets engaged. So she said, it has really good luck. You should move in. So I actually decided I would move in and it had two bedrooms and I decided I would give one bedroom to my sister because she was older and she wanted to get married. The woman who said that to me, who I had never met is my husband’s mother. I my God.

And I married her son that year. And the only reason we met is because she lived in the building next door and he would come visit her because she’s been a widow since 1987. And so he would visit her every single night, take in her mail and all this stuff. And so I saw him all the time until we became friends. And then my sister said, why don’t you guys date? And I’m like, what I’m saying is the best things that have ever happened to any of us, how you two met.

where you’re at in life, where you went to college, who became your best friend in seventh grade. None of that you tried to figure out. Every good thing that’s ever happened happens through synchronicity. And when you remember that, you stop overthinking and feeling lack and feeling like, where are you and where’s the thing you want? It’s so out of reach. You just have a blast wherever you are right now, enjoy your life and everything takes care of itself. Okay, okay. I have to ask, did your sister get married too? She never got married.

I don’t want to say want-want because that sounds like that was- I don’t want to say want-want, it was just something she wanted. First of all, we’re really close and she would say want-want herself. It’s so interesting because it’s literally what I talk about and she knows this. We create abundance from abundance. We don’t create from lack. When a person feels like they’re lacking wealth, they’ll just keep pushing it further away. When we feel abundant wherever we are, we attract it because it is us. It’s a like versus like thing.

because she’s always felt that she’s not whole until she gets married. That continues to evade her. If she gets to the place where she is RSVP to her own party and she’s walking through the world like that, it will come back to her and that is the love that she has to learn to give herself. See, is such a good, it’s so good because my next question for you, Kathy, is you say that women have a really, really hard time figuring out what they want.

and figuring out how to attract this abundance. And I want to know your suggestions for that and your insight on that right after this. So Cathy, in your book, you say that women have a really hard time dreaming bigger and being audacious and finding these big things. Like, tell us more about that. What’s your insight on that? Well, I think that there’s this crazy phenomenon where people feel as though they don’t have the right. Who am I to have all that? We honestly eat the crumbs because we feel like

There’s something aggressive about asking for a ton in our life. And it’s coming from this shame that is fake because the truth is that if a redwood tree had less water, not only would it die, it would affect the entire ecosystem and actually hurt the ecosystem. If the oyster beds dried up, you and I would die because there’d be red tide.

So everything is one. We talked about that before, even though we look separate, we’re all energetic, we’re all in the same infinite field. If there was a guy on the end of my street who had a meth lab in his house, eventually that wouldn’t be good for the whole neighborhood, right? No. And on the other side, if there was a woman at the end of the block who walked every morning and said hello to everybody and always have the best treats for Halloween, like that would also affect all of us.

If I painted my house and upgraded my house, I would make the value of my neighbor’s house just go up immediately because now they’re living next to a nicer house. Meaning to say, when we are thriving, we are actually pollinating the whole garden. So I think women don’t realize that and they feel as though their job is to be a martyr almost and prove that.

know, Mary Oliver says in Wild Geese, like, you don’t have to be good. You don’t have to walk on your knees for a thousand miles in the desert. I think we saw women, our mothers and grandmothers who didn’t feel it was their place to feel really full and to really receive. And so we don’t know what that feels like. And I think we’re starting to understand that, no, for the sake of our daughters, for the sake of this generation and the next generation.

It’s actually a blessing. Like when Reese Witherspoon sold Hello Sunshine, which is her company, for $1 billion, that is a invitation. She just created a path for so many other women, right? Oprah did that. Like anytime a woman actually receives, it’s not, look at me, it’s come with me. And so I think that there’s this feeling of being judged for being a disco ball. Like the more money you have, people will judge you. You won’t be relatable.

I think it’s the opposite. I think there will be some people who secretly judge you, but I think only because they’re triggered by it. And I think it’s because they have a story that they’re not allowed. So how dare you thrive? That trigger is actually a blessing too, because during COVID in 2021, my friend Heidi, she made this declaration on Instagram that she was gonna take a six month Instagram break. I watched her say that on Instagram. I was so triggered. I threw my phone across the room.

And then I realized it’s because I wanted to take a break. And I was like, how dare she take a break? I don’t feel like I can take a break. And then I called her and I was like, this is not about you. You can totally delete this message, but I was so triggered. I was so mad at you. It wasn’t you. It was like, you were going to give yourself this permission. And then I said to her, guess what? I am too. And so I took a six month break in 2021. My mother-in-law was dying. She died that year. So no, it was like lockdown. was home alone with the kids. I mean, she was dying. he part of him was dying. He was in the hospital. Nobody was helping me. And I was like, I’m out. I’m done with Instagram. But at first, she triggered me because she set a new possibility that I hadn’t given myself. So if you trigger somebody, or if you inspire someone, either way, you’re welcome. Like it is not a bad thing to not trigger people, especially women who’ve been playing small and deserve to ask for more in their life. my gosh. That has given me such insight into a situation that happened months ago with my sister-in-law. And I won’t say it here, but I mean, it just brings me such like a peace with it. Something else like I want to talk with you about before we end is that you talk about how this thing of being a martyr and people pleasing, how it’s actually codependency.

And I just want to say thinking of it that way, it affected me this morning and I want to hear your whole explanation on it too. But my son, like I make him eggs in the morning. He loves his poached eggs. He loves them so much. And this morning I just wanted blueberries and yogurt and muesli. And in the back of my mind I’m like, I have to tell him I’m not making eggs. And so he hugs me and I was like, yeah, it’s going to be cold cereal this morning. You you could fend for yourself. And he said,

And at that, what I wanted to do was say, I’ll still make you eggs. I’ll still do it. Right. But the codependency part of people pleasing, I’m like, holy crap, I think I am codependent on people pleasing because I just want to change what I want to do and my needs based on his singular reaction. And I stopped in my tracks and I’m like, yeah, okay. But you helped me in that. But tell us more about codependency of people pleasing. my God. I mean, we’re all so codependent, especially women.

And I can only speak to this because I’m such in recovery from it. Like I’m my number one own student of this. I’ve been making strides. I was the kid, by the way, who when I was growing up, my parents got divorced and I was the you’ll fix it kid. Like I was the happy one. I was the hero child. I was the one who’s like, you’ll be the one who goes in between your dad and me and keeps the peace. so.

I was like dying inside, but pretending that I was fine, because that was the role that I sort of cosigned. And so growing up, my husband even says, I’ll say to him, do you understand I’m drowning right now? I need help. He’s like, you made it look so easy. I didn’t even know you needed help. I’m like, yeah, yeah, no, I actually need help. And he’s like, okay, you need to not then say yes so often, because you make it look like it’s fine and it’s not fine. So I’ve had a long road with that, but.

My friend Mark Grove said two things to me that are so magnificent around codependency. Number one, he said that all day long, whether people know it or not, we’re being asked to choose between being authentic and belonging. And we often choose belonging. And when we do that, when we compromise what is our yes, so that somebody doesn’t have a reaction that we don’t like, it’s because we’re trying to control their reaction. And then we self-abandon. And when we self-abandon, we don’t belong to anyone because you no longer belong to yourself.

So you don’t belong to them because whoever they just decided to sign up for in that moment who they now belong to is not you. So no one belongs. And then the second thing he said to me recently was, I think this is a Liz Gilbert quote that he was quoting is like, liberation is not a one way street. So he said to me, because I was talking about, you know, a new sort of journey I’m having in my own marriage. And he’s like, well, when you tell someone the truth, you’re really saying, I trust you with the truth. And when you stop.

agreeing to certain things and you set boundaries and you change the standard in the relationship, who did they get to choose to become because you’re being honest? And how much more real emotional connection can there be? Because you’ve decided to stop being codependent. Because we, I mean, my husband and I have been married 15 years, we’ve been together 17 years. And in that time, we’ve probably had five marriages in our own marriage together, where we get to the end of a year and I’m like, okay, I’m…

this particular relationship has to die because I’m no longer available for this, this, and this. And his dad died in the eighties. And so for a long time, I would just not want him to be uncomfortable. So he’s a joke maker. He doesn’t want to feel. Until finally my dad died this summer. And then I said to him in August, I’m not available. I know it’s uncomfortable for you to have real feelings, but I’m not going to go any further in this marriage and let you just avoid feeling. And you’re going to have to figure that out.

And then he started seeing a healer, which he never would have done. Never. And it remains to be seen. Like, can we continue to like be there for each other in a real way or not? Or what does it look like? But it requires actually, when you really know that there’s a highest and best in yourself and in someone else, you’ll tell them the truth. And then the relationship gets to evolve. It was my dad died in July and in April, three months before he died.

I finally had an honest conversation with him about my parents’ divorce, which I had always avoided. It was the best conversation we had ever had. I decided, my gosh, I’ll never do that again because he actually could handle it. I should have done that 25 years before. Okay. As a divorced mom, my mind is racing on all the things that you told your dad. I had a similar thing with not just a conversation with a parent that was way overdue.

and where I told them everything that was kind of bothering me and they handled it. They handled it and actually the relationship’s been a whole lot better in just the past three months. For anyone who’s listening to this, as we’re coming into the holidays and Christmas and Hanukkah and every other gathering, know, it’s like, imagine how much more free you could feel if you decided to be authentic. And you would just, you’d realize, my God, that was an option.

Like, yeah, you denied yourself that option, but maybe it is an option. And maybe people are actually grown up enough to handle it. And if they can’t handle it, maybe it wasn’t worth it anyway, because now they’re no longer there, which means that’s their choice too. That’s okay. You know, I’ll end by just saying it’s a fascinating discovery when you realize.

Not everyone needs to like you. And actually, it’s not a problem when people don’t like you. Like out of 8 billion people, some people like Indian food, some people like sushi. We’re not all supposed to like the same music. So the fact that we think we have to convince everyone that we’re their cup of tea, that is a problem. Right? We’re not everyone’s cup of tea. Okay, can I just say, how many of us give that advice to our kids? It’s okay.

You don’t need to be friends with everybody. Everybody doesn’t need to love you. We say that we give that space and that exposure to everybody that we love. yet so often, because Joy and I, I mean, we say this all the time, we don’t give ourselves even a slice of that compassion pie that we give to everybody else. It’s really true. And it’s really so awesome when you realize your light will irritate a lot of unhealed people.

and it’s not your job to fix them. Everything is in divine order. Yeah. Well, Kathy, tell us about your book and where people can get it. Well, people can get it anywhere you want to buy a book, Barnes & Noble, Target, Amazon. I’ll just say it like this. If you’re interested in learning how to manifest the most amazing life, I think the ideas in this book have spanned the test of time. There’s a lot of Jewish mysticism in the book.

And then also if you just want to sort of regulate your nervous system and learn some mindfulness, that’s been a big part of my journey. And that’s in the book. And then if you want to learn how to really open up the path to abundance and really stepping into living your most out loud life.

I think the book supports that as well. That is fantastic. And I have to come in on that and be like, yes, go get the book. Like there are so many things, usable things. I’m only halfway through and I am finishing it because it was, it’s just like, I’ve already pulled out so many and I’m using so much in my life. Even my coaching clients. I’m like, my gosh, there’s this book and here we’re going to practice one of the exercises in this book and it’s helping them as well. So Cathy, you have a huge impact with this writing. Thank you so much for joining us here.

I love this conversation. Thank you. So I said as soon as we got off with Kathy Brie that I’m going to give you this book, but I’m going to finish the entire book before I give it to you because I can’t put it down. It’s so good and I’m taking so much from it and using it daily in my life. I’m using it with coaching clients already, the exercises she recommends. It is that good of a book. Having known you for so many years, you are a bookaholic. I don’t know if you know you have a problem, Joanne. It’s a good problem to have.

But you love books so much so that it does blow my mind that at any one given time, you may have four books you’re reading at once. But for me to hear you say that you have a book that you can’t put down, that is a rarity. That’s funny because I think there’s now three books I’m reading right now. Probably. Yeah. It’s a lot. until next time, remember, best mom’s a happy mom. Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later.

Thanks for stopping by.