Podcast Episode 294: Do Enneagrams Help You Parent Better? Harnessing Enneagram Insights for Resilience and Growth Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

Beth McCord: That is a key time for us to be curious about our kids, to draw them out, ask them questions and see where even what you think is a flaw could actually be one of their greatest assets, but immature in the moment. So we as parents, we have the harder work to do, but we can definitely shape our kids, even if we don’t know their type,

JoAnn Crohn: Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast. I’m your host, JoAnn Crohn joined here by the lovely Brie Tucker.

Brie Tucker: Why, hello, hello, everybody. How are you?

JoAnn Crohn: Today we have the wonderful Beth McCord talking about Enneagrams and I guys, I got to tell you, this is a powerful conversation. I mean, she made me cry multiple times, not in like a mean way, but in like, Oh, you hit the truth so hard. So hard. I can’t believe that, you know, that about me way. So it’s yeah. And Brie, you also found it very compelling.

Brie Tucker: I would say it was almost like a therapy session. And, like, a little bit with a psychic. I feel like it was like a therapy with a psychic, all rolled into one. And I mean, I already was excited Beth, when Beth’s team reached out to us to do this episode, because I was like, Oh, Enneagrams, this is going to be awesome. But her book and everything she said. Yes. It’s awesome. It’s awesome.

JoAnn Crohn: And now let me introduce you to a wonderful Beth McCord. She’s the founder of Your Enneagram Coach and is an Enneagram Speaker, coach, and teacher for over 20 years. Her podcast is over 3.3 million downloads. She’s passionate about coming alongside individuals and helping them rewrite their story, allowing them to see that lasting change, meaningful relationships, and a life of deep purpose is possible. And we hope you enjoy our conversation with Beth.

Welcome Beth to the podcast. We’re so happy to have you here. And you are our first guest on Enneagrams and we talk about it. Like I throw it in all the time. So this is like our first introduction to our audience, really officially about Enneagram. So welcome.

Beth McCord: Yeah. Thanks. That’s special. I’m so excited to be here.

JoAnn Crohn: It’s so interesting because I first found about Enneagrams through another podcaster, Amy Porterfield, who we were talking about earlier, who lives actually very close geographically to you and as a way just to figure out more about yourself. And I have to say like out of all the personality tests out there, Enneagram is the most universally.

Appreciated among entrepreneurs. I feel like every single person, I talked to who runs their own business, especially online, they’re like, Oh yeah, I’m an Enneagram. Like one, what are you? I’m a three, like everything. So can you give us a brief description on what Enneagrams are?

Beth McCord: Yeah. That’s a great, great question. So Enneagram, Ennea means nine and gram means a drawing or a diagram. And so when you see the Enneagram symbol, what you’ll see is a nine pointed geometric figure, which basically it looks like a nine pointed star and each point represents a basic personality type. Or another way of seeing it is that Each of these personality types have lenses on like, so like, let’s say sunglasses and each of them have a different color because each type is seen interpreting and reacting to the world through their lens and their lens or their personality type is hinged on their core motivations of that type.

There are four core motivations. So each person, each type has a core fear, what they’re trying to run away from or prevent happening. They have a core desire. They’re trying to obtain like, Oh man, if I had this life’s going to be perfect. They have a core weakness. This is their Achilles heel, their thorn in the side that keeps tripping them up all the time.

And they have a core longing, a message, their heart longs to hear. And so each personality, why you think, feel, and behave is based off of these core motivations. Now the word why is the biggest difference between this personality typology and others, because most of them are telling you what you do or your preferences.

This gets to why you think, feel, and behave. And that’s really awesome and creepy all at the same time, because once you find your type, you’re going to feel like someone’s read your internal diary even better than you could have written it yourself. and so on one side, it’s really exciting to get that clarity and on the other side, if you’re not careful, you can slip into kind of shame and condemnation because the Enneagram is a nonjudgmental friend.

It is going to tell you your glorious strengths and attributes and your deepest weaknesses. And what people usually do is they just kind of hone in on those weaknesses and like, Oh, I’m just such a terrible person or I’m the worst type. And it’s like, no. All the nine types are truly amazing in their own right.

And so what we’re hoping, at least at your Enneagram coach is to help people. Yes, definitely see where you have your liabilities. If you don’t know them, you’re going to keep falling into them. So know what they are, but we want you to get to the healthiest place for your personality type, because it’s there that one you’ll experience great joy.

But you will also bless others. So in a nutshell, the Enneagram is about why you think, feel, and behave based off of your core motivations.

JoAnn Crohn: it’s so interesting to me when I was first getting started into Enneagrams and having really a trouble getting my type. I was told like, it’s the type where you’re going to read it. And you’re like, no, I don’t want to ever be that ever. And that’s the one that’s usually indicative of you. Would you say that’s the case? 

Beth McCord: yes and no, like for instance, I’m the peaceful accommodator, the type nine. And yes, when I see some of the un savory characteristics of that type. I’m kind of like, uh, I want to run away, but there are other types that I would for sure be like, no, I don’t want to be that because my type is really like at the less healthy levels is adverse to that types adverse less healthy attributes.

So for instance, like the type eight, they’re the passionate protectors. Now, I love type eights. We call them big diesel snow plows that you’re in a gram coach because they plow a path for others. But when they’re not so healthy, they can start nicking people on the side of the road, kind of going, okay, this is what I’m doing. if you’re in the way, you’re in the way I don’t, what am I supposed to say? And then when they’re really unhealthy, they can start plowing over you. And they’re like, Well, you know, sorry,

Brie Tucker: You didn’t move.

Beth McCord: yeah, I don’t care. Now someone like my personality, the peaceful accommodator can look at that and look down on that and of course the nines are like, I’m not judgmental.

I’m receptive, but honestly. We are, I mean, like, we’ll be like, well, that’s mean, rude, like inconsiderate, because to us, the highest value, our core motivations, we want peace and harmony. And for people to feel it, you have a place at the table that you’re important. And so someone who’s confrontational and strong and assertive, and who isn’t maybe sometimes as empathetic and kind, we can look down on as if they’re wrong and bad, but the eights, they can do it back to us.

Like, well, you’re kind of weak. You know, why don’t you stand up for yourself? Why don’t you say what you need? So Each of the personalities are going to see glory in the healthy parts of all the nine types, but they’re also going to be kind of annoyed or affected in some form or fashion with the other personalities that are in their less healthy state.

And that’s, what’s so beautiful about the Enneagram is it really gets down to, are you healthy average or unhealthy or, you know, somewhere in that spectrum, because it radically changes how you come across to others and how it affects you and your relationships.

Brie Tucker: Interesting.

JoAnn Crohn: and I think that’s the power too of the Enneagrams is seeing like, what are the unhealthy behaviors of this personality type? I took the Enneagram test on your site and I think I took it like an hour ago. I’m just off vacation from last week. I’m thinking I’m fun, loving and everything. So I got a different type than I usually do.

Get, I got the seven, which is like the fun loving one. And when I read the seven, I’m like, Oh, I don’t know if that’s, really like me. And so I went back to my tried and true one, the one clicking on that. And as soon as I read that core fear of being wrong, bad, evil, inappropriate, unredeemable, or corruptible, I was like, Oh, that’s me.

Beth McCord: Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: That is like my core fear that keeps me stuck all the time and putting like. Myself out there or saying something wrong or like saying something mean. It is my core trigger as a parent. my daughter said to me the other day Oh, well, you said that my 11 year old brother was a better driver than me.

And I’m like, I would never ever say that. And she’s like, no, you did mom. Just being told that, making an insinuation that I was like a bad person or said a bad thing triggered me so. Bad. And so, when you say that knowing these can really help you in parenting, I could see it. I could see how it identifies your triggers. What other ways do you see it helping in parenting, knowing your Enneagram?

Beth McCord: Yeah. So, you know, with my new book, Enneagram for Moms I wrote the book that you need, not the book you want. And what I mean by that is I started using the Enneagram back in 2001 when my kids were one and three years old. And I just wanted someone to give me the instruction manual for my son, Nate, and my daughter Libby, like, just tell me what their type is and I’m good to go, you know?

And that’s just not how it works because the Enneagram is about again, the why the core motivations. I really, I don’t know your core motivations, you know, or your core motivations. I can. guess based off of, behaviors, but behaviors can actually be identical, but the why behind it can be radically different.

Brie Tucker: Right. Like a misbehavior can be a misbehavior. It’s, it looks the same, but why they’re doing it 100 percent different.

Beth McCord: Yeah. So like, let’s just say clean home. Let’s say all the moms are listening right now. We all want to perfectly clean home. Now that’s not true. Some don’t care, but let’s just pretend let’s go through the wheel. We call it the wheel, like going around the star, the nine pointed star, the type ones will want to clean home because it’s the right thing to do.

The twos because it’s a warm hug for threes. Well, what are other people going to say about, you know, the appearance of my home? So it’s about image. The fours, it’s about their aesthetics, their design, their creativity, uniqueness, the fives. It’s about getting to their resources. You know, like maybe their books or journals or other things that they want to learn from the six, they’re trying to prevent anything bad from happening.

So maybe illness or someone tripping or falling, but it’s also about duty and loyalty to their family. The seven, they don’t want a messy home, keeping them from the next fun thing. The eight there, you don’t want the messy home to control them. They’re going to control that home. And for me as a type nine, as a peaceful accommodator.

I just want to clean home so I can chill and relax and I don’t have the dishes or other things tapping me on the shoulder, constantly telling me to do it. And so as you can see, everyone can do or want the same thing, but why can be for very different reasons. And the reason I bring that up is that parents will want to type their kids and use the Enneagram to focus on their kids.

Behavior. When in actuality, we need the parents to look inward at themselves, do their own self work. When you do your own self work and understand what sets you off like you did, like, okay, I’m really being triggered and activated right now because she’s basically in my world. The way I hear interpret and, and see it is that she is telling me I’m being a bad, Or wrong mom.

JoAnn Crohn: Mm hmm.

Beth McCord: I bet if I sat down with your daughter and we had a long talk, you know, and like, she got really like comfortable with me and I said, do you think your mom is a bad person? Do you think what she did was like, you were saying she was being bad. I bet you, she would know, like, and she, yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: and we, and we did repair it afterwards. And she’s like, that is not what I meant at all. Because I’m very forthright with her. And I’m like, here’s what I was feeling in the story I was telling myself. And she’s like, I’m so sorry. Like, I didn’t mean it like that. I was making a joke.

Brie Tucker: going to say some of that is the joy of having a teenager. They are, they have sharp teeth.

JoAnn Crohn: we’re going to go into exactly how parents can dig more into themselves. You see that you need to grab right after this. So we were talking before about how the Enneagram really helps you decode yourself. It reminded me actually of another conversation we were having with Cara Natterson of the Puberty Podcast, where she was talking about this recent book called The Anxiety Generation by Jonathan Haidt, which is very, very popular right now.

And she said she saw the title and she’s like, Oh my gosh, finally, they got it right. They’re talking about Our generation, like the Gen Xs and the millennials who are here with all of this anxiety. And it’s this idea about looking at our own personalities as parents versus trying to diagnose our children, which really intrigues me.

And it’s actually what no guilt mom is all about too. So how else. Can we use the Enneagram to really dig deeper into ourselves and figure out how to have better relationships with our kids? Yeah.

Beth McCord: you were activated by something your daughter did and said in your type one, the principled reformer lens. That you were seeing through you saw, heard, felt, and interpreted it from the lens of a type one, which your fear is being bad, evil, corruptible, and wrong.

You desire to be virtuous, right? To be the good girl, to do everything as it should be. and then your core longing is to, hear. You are good. So you would love to hear from your kids. You’re such a good mom, you know?

JoAnn Crohn: can you also say like in, I don’t want that to be part of my personality either. Like, even though that’s my core longing, I also hate that that’s my core longing. Like, is that pretty typical? that kind of goes to the one because the one feels like that’s somehow wrong or bad.

Beth McCord: When, and actually it’s not, it’s good. Like, you know, to, get an affirmation from someone or from a higher power that you are good is good. But the inner critic of the one, which is very strong, can turn that quickly into some sort of bad, selfish, something that’s not right. And so then you’ll feel like, Oh wait, I got to get rid of that somehow. And it’s

JoAnn Crohn: You hit me at my core, do you see I’m tearing up? You hit me. Like, yeah. Yeah.

Beth McCord: so your story with your daughter is a perfect example because no matter what age your daughter is. Okay. So let’s say she was three and she said that, let’s say she’s 13, 23, 33, 43.

It doesn’t matter if you don’t know your kid’s type. Let’s just use that example. Cause a lot of parents don’t, you can understand what activated you and why. So you can know, and this is, we talk about this at your new groom coaches being a rumble strip on the highway. So most of us are driving down and then we just kind of veer off course.

And we fall into a common pitfall and we kind of go, how did it get here again? Like, how can I learn my lesson? Well, it’s because we don’t. No, why we veered off. We don’t have those rumble strips to alert us and to wake us up. So for you, those core fears and core desires can alert you like, oh wait, okay. I feel activated inside right now.

I feel something. What’s going on? And so before you assume onto your daughter and let’s say react to her in the moment, you can have this moment of like, okay, I feel like she just said I’m a bad mom. I did something wrong. Now I wonder. could that be true or could that not be true? Okay. Well, it could be both.

Maybe I should ask a curious question. What we normally do is we assume onto other people, their thoughts, feelings, and behaviors thinking they were wearing the same lens that we do. And so you would have assumed she said that because You know, as a type one, I would have said that, and it would have meant this.

And therefore now I’m hurt. So by what you did by asking curious questions, you got to hear her heart and her motives and where she was coming from. And it changed the trajectory of that moment. But let’s say you couldn’t even get to that point. You can still self regulate yourself because we have to take good care of ourselves in order to take good care of others.

So for you to recognize and have self regulation. Self affirmation, which is hard for the type one because of the inner critic is so loud. But if you were to develop healthy practices of self awareness and self affirmations that are true, not like blown up or exaggerated, but just actually true, then you could come back to that place in that moment and go, no, wait, I am a good mom.

Sometimes, yes, I do things wrong, or sometimes it will land on someone in a way that I should apologize, but I didn’t mean for it to be that way. So I can sit here, even though I feel activated and I can self regulate myself before I enter into this relationship in the moment with conflict, you know, and kind of coming at the person.

So the more we can self regulate ourselves, we can then enter into that. Space that normally would blow up in some form or fashion in a way that’s actually beneficial for you, but also really beneficial for your kids. And then when you do that, they’re going to start to mirror how you’re self regulating. So then when they’re older, they’re going to do it themselves.

Brie Tucker: I have a question. Someone’s Enneagram type. Because like mine, I took mine and I’m a six and I 100 percent resonate with it. And I can even tell you like why I’m a six. But. Does it change in people’s lives? I would assume it changes because like looking back at that, like I 100 percent understand why security and guidance and support is important to me.

I had certain things happen in my life that I’m like that finally, yeah, it really makes sense. So would you have said like, do people change their types and how often? Does an average person change their types and does it once you’re in it like as an adult are you kind of like That’s it. That’s your type. It doesn’t really change

JoAnn Crohn: That’s a good question.

Beth McCord: that’s a really good question. So I, and a lot of Enneagram teachers believe you’re born with your type and you remain that right. Now here’s, what’s so cool about the Enneagram. So let’s say you’re born with your type six lenses on and in our logo, it’s. The orange color. Well, you’re not just a type six, meaning we actually do use all nine types to varying degrees, but your type six reigns supreme.

So your lens is an orange lens, but here’s, what’s really cool about the Enneagram, there’s so many layers and complexities, and what I try to do is make it easy Easy to understand. So you have two wings next to you. Okay. So on the Enneagram symbol next to you is the five and the seven, you use aspects of the five and the seven.

Now think of that as like salt and pepper. And your main type is a filet mignon and you’re cooking this beautiful steak, right? Well, when you use the seasonings properly, it draws out even better qualities of who you are, like you’re bringing in enhancing it. But if you over season, Mm. Yeah. That’s not gonna be fun for anyone.

Right? And so when you are healthy, you are going to use your wings, the attributes they have in healthy ways, which is gonna be amazing when you’re average. You’re gonna use your wings in average ways. And when you’re unhealthy, you’re gonna also use your wings attributes in unhealthy ways. So let’s just use you as an example.

So sixes can be anxious and want security and guidance. Well, you can bring in that seven, which. Makes you fun and, sarcastic and witty and playful, a great friend. But when you’re not as healthy with that seven, it could make you a little bit more scattered, a little bit more anxious, a little bit more on

Brie Tucker: Is she not describing me to a T right now JoAnn?

Beth McCord: and then we can nuance it with a five as well, but the whole point, and then you’re, you’re connected with two lines on the Enneagram and those two lines are connected to two types and you, the same thing, you use those in healthy, average and unhealthy ways. You don’t become these types. You remain your Personality type, but you access them like those flavorings and seasonings.

And again, in healthy, average unhealthy ways, depending on where you are currently at. So what that means is yes, you stay your same type and yes, you change in the sense of your orange lens can change. Let’s so, on our logo, the seven is a red. So let’s say you’re using more of the red in the moment.

Well, that orange is still the orange overtone. Lens, but it has more of this red tint to it. And then when you use your type five, which is more of a yellow color, that orange is also going to become a little bit more yellow. So does that make sense? Like, so you become a different shade of the orange color and that’s why, yeah. Enneagram because It encompasses the complexity of the human being, right? Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: get into more of how two Enneagram types interact with each other. And I think it’d be fun to use mine and Brie’s as an example. And we’ll tell you if it’s good right after this. Okay, so you talk about the dance and how two Enneagram types can interact with each other.

Now, parents can use this in their relationship with their kids. I’m really interested in how this pertains to, like, all relationships. Especially, like, what you read on is interactions between a one, myself, and a six, Brie. I think

Beth McCord: So a lot of people ask me and we, we started with that dance analogy and it’s an infinity loop and each loop is a person and inside the loop is their core motivations. Okay. And we used it with our becoming us book, which is a marriage book. Course, but it’s any two Enneagram types. It doesn’t matter who the two Enneagram types are, what the relationship status is. So we’ll use the two of you. So we’ve got JoAnn with the type one core fears and motivation. So again, we talked about the fear of being bad evil, wrong. And then the.

And then for Brie, you are the type six, you fear being abandoned without security guidance not having safety being targeted, but you desire to have security guidance and support. So what can happen when you guys are healthy? And so, oh, that was a question. People always ask, like, are there two, like really bad Enneagram types together, two really good, you know?

And I’m like, Well, this is literally the answer. I’m not just trying, you know, to be fluffy. Any two healthy Enneagram types together are truly amazing. It doesn’t matter if they’re the same Enneagram types, totally different opposites, you know, the opposites attract. And then any two that are average, not so great. And any two that are unhealthy are destructive.

Brie Tucker: So we can’t both fall apart at the same time, JoAnn. I think we already knew that, but

Beth McCord: Well, and really what makes a healthy relationship is one, at least one of the two working on themselves, but definitely we need both of them to work on themselves. Right? So when you have a type one who fears being wrong or bad or not having procedures done correctly, and then the type six, now there’s a lot of similarities in the two.

then when you take the infinity loop and you put a a line horizontally over it, then below that line is your heart motivations and what’s happening internally. And then above is the behavior. So we’ll start with JoAnn. So here’s the type one.

She fears things aren’t being done correctly or accurately. And so she’s feeling activated inside. So let’s just take this podcast. For example, maybe we’re not flowing quite the way we thought we should or would. And so then she’s. Starting to panic inside, like, okay, this isn’t the way it’s supposed to be.

It needs to be done just so. And so I’m starting to panic inside. You know, the inner critic is definitely telling me it should be like this and should be like that. then her behaviors can come out for type one at times a little bit more blunt or Kurt nitpicky.

JoAnn Crohn: hmm. That’s me.

Beth McCord: And then that can land on the six as well. Wait, she’s telling me I’m doing

Brie Tucker: I’m calling you out. Yeah, we have this conversation all the

JoAnn Crohn: All the time.

Brie Tucker: Luckily we got to the point where I’ll be like and I feel like you’re calling me out and you’ll be like

JoAnn Crohn: And I’m like I’m sorry, I’m not.

Brie Tucker: trying

Beth McCord: Yeah. And so the six is feeling like the opposite of being guided and supported. It can feel You’re judging me or you’re telling me I’m bad or I’m wrong. you know, so they’re in that state. And so when she’s like that, her behaviors are going to be, well, it could, you know, sixes are a little bit complex and how they do things, but let’s say the six for in this manner is going to be maybe a little bit more pushed back, like, Hey what’s going on, Why are you saying I’m doing something wrong? I thought I was doing all of these things, right. I was being faithful, dutiful, responsible, you know, and now you’re saying I’m not. Well, then that can land onto the one as if, wait, she’s saying I’m being bad and wrong.

JoAnn Crohn: Yep.

Brie Tucker: Yep.

JoAnn Crohn: exactly my internal thought process. Yes. Yeah.

Beth McCord: And so then it’s going to activate you and then around and around we go, right?

JoAnn Crohn: hmm.

Brie Tucker: Yeah. Yeah.

Beth McCord: And that is the misaligned dance, but you can get to the aligned dance. And the aligned dance is where this is what we were saying earlier about your time with your daughter earlier, where when you recognize, so in this situation, When JoAnn, when, when you recognize, Oh, wait, hold on. I am feeling like we’re not on track with this. something’s off track. We’ve got to get back on track. I really got to hone it in and control this, but it comes across in like that teaching, maybe a little bit judgmental. Now ones are going to kind of hold back the judgment. So it’s going to come across a little bit more cold than sometimes warm because they’re trying not to show their anger, which they’re like, no, anger is bad.

So I don’t have any anger and yet they do. It’s resentment. So then these are going to come out sideways. And so Brie is going to feel that sideways frustration and anger and be like, wait, what’s going on? I’m feeling uncertain. Why can’t you just tell me what’s going on for real? But it’s hard for JoAnn to express the anger. Cause she thinks that’s wrong and bad when in actuality, if she would, if you’d like to join, if you’re just like, You know what, I am really frustrated and angry because, in my world, this has to go a certain way. And if it doesn’t, then I feel like I’m bad or wrong. And actually just talking about this helps me to decompress and like be real and vulnerable. And then break and be like, but you’re not wrong or bad. Sometimes things just need to be flexible. Sometimes things aren’t the way we thought they would go. And

Brie Tucker: It’s taken us years to get there, but I feel like you’re giving

JoAnn Crohn: are there.

Brie Tucker: of our best conversations. You’re describing them to a T right now, Beth.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, you are. Yeah. And look, you’re giving me therapy because I’m crying. I’m

Brie Tucker: we been able to, had we had this book years ago?

Beth McCord: Right? And here’s the thing. Have I talked to you guys ever

Brie Tucker: No, No, no,

JoAnn Crohn: No.

Beth McCord: I don’t know. I really don’t know anything about you. I don’t know how many kids you have. I don’t know. And that’s where the Enneagram is so powerful. When you truly understand what’s going on internally with each of the types and those core motivation levels.

And this is where we want to take off our lens and put someone else’s lens not to negate our side. Our side and our perspective is valid, but what is going on for them? So when each of you can kind of take off your lens and put the other lens on, you can go, and just being open and honest, like, Hey, I’m feeling like we’re doing something wrong or bad.

I know that’s just me being a type one. I have a lot of fears. I want some control and it’s probably going to come out sideways and it’s going to land on you. It’s like, I’m being judgmental or teaching or being nitpicky, but it’s really not what I’m trying to do. I’m just scared. I’m scared that this or this, or this isn’t happening.

And I just need to be able to vocalize that without it landing on you, Brie, as I’m saying that you’re wrong or that you’re in trouble or that we’re in trouble or that everything’s going to fall apart.

Brie Tucker: Yes. I can’t help it. Wow. that, is like, so like, it’s like a shower of truth and feelings

Beth McCord: yeah, because, she would be being honest with what’s going on, but she’s also being honest with how she feels about you. Like this isn’t because she would know, okay, you fear being in trouble or that this whole podcast thing is going to. Fall apart and she could say, I am not saying that, but I know that that would be a fear for you.

I just need to be able to vocalize my side and have us, like, work together on where our fears are so that we’re on the same page, but we know that we’re not trying to come at each other. With our personality lenses, but let’s, just talk about where we’re really at in six is one honesty.

And so do one. So you guys actually want the same thing, but you might accidentally be hearing it from that person’s lens. Does that make sense

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. Oh yeah, definitely. No, we’ve like, we’ve worked through a lot, a lot of it and had these conversations, but it’s taken us a

Brie Tucker: Yes. Yes. It’s taken us a long time to get there. And like, and I think part of the reason we were able to get there is because of the fact that we’ve been friends for so long. We can be that honest with each other. If it was an average coworker relationship, I would not feel safe enough to have that conversation the way we

JoAnn Crohn: we teach communication and self reflection, like we

Brie Tucker: focus for us both. I, I have a quick question though. Okay. So I made my husband take this too, so that I could kind of like see where he landed, but you talked about how, like our kids, we can view them a certain way. How do we figure out where our kids are coming from? Do we have them take the Enneagram test as well? Or, I mean, like, obviously you can’t have your six year old take it. You’re not going to

Beth McCord: Right. Yeah. so really for each person, whether it’s your husband or boss or whoever, yeah, you might have an inkling, like, I think they’re that, but you might be surprised. Like a lot of people don’t think I’m a nine cause I can be so outgoing and they’re like, Oh, you must be a whatever number. And I’m like, no, I’m, trust me.

I’m a nine. And so we don’t want to name other people. They’re tight for them. Even if you swear, like my husband thought he was a type eight for years and he’s a type six, like, cause he didn’t want to be like my mom, who’s a type six, which they’re very different. on the outward looking sixes.

So he didn’t even want to look at it, but for our kids, they don’t know themselves until probably like really why they do what they do until their teenage years, maybe even older. They think some of them don’t care. You know, they don’t want to have a conversation. but your kids were born with their personality.

And so even though God, you know, gave you this can of white paint. and you’re like, Oh, cool. I get to make whatever color I want. I want to make like me, I want to make little peaceful accommodators. These are like super kind, empathetic people. Well, yes, it’s good to impart my personality, the good things to them, but they have their own personality in there.

So, you know, when you go to like Sherman Williams and you say, Hey, I want whatever color, the color goes in multiple colors, right? Go into the paint can, but they settle at the bottom. And they have to shake it up, right. Or it just stays basically a can of white paint with a lot of color at the bottom.

when you’re giving your baby, it’s like that can of white paint with the color at the bottom. You don’t even know what their personality is. They don’t know what it is, but it’s there. It just is going to take time for them to experience life and have it shooken up and stirred and all the things.

But here’s what really happens is as you stir, you know, when you first start stirring, you might see a hint of orange and then all of a sudden there’s some blue and then it’s like, wait, what? What color is it? Well, remember I said that we use all nine Enneagram types to different degrees. So my mom was a six and my dad was a seven.

So I bet you there was a lot of six and seven that kept popping up. Cause I’m just trying to figure out this world and what’s safe and how do I, get through this world without either getting in trouble or, you know, whatever it is. But that color eventually comes to fruition, definitely in those teenage years.

And this is what’s really hard for parents because parents are usually like, you’ve never been like this before. You know, you were always such and such and such and such. And now you’re blah, blah, blah. And it’s like, yeah, because our personality is fed up living an inauthentic life. And I just want to be them.

And so that is a key time for us to be curious about our kids, to draw them out, ask them questions and see where even what you think is a flaw could actually be one of their greatest assets, but immature in the moment. So like as a type nine, if I had a type. Eight daughter who is strong and aggressive and a leader and says what she thinks I would characterize that as being bad, rude, and inconsiderate of others.

But that actually is one of the greatest strengths of an eight when they use it in a healthy way. For example, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. We need eights to plow a path for others. So as a parent, it’s my opportunity and privilege to find what are their traits and how can I help them to recognize, Hey, how you’re using that trait right now is ineffective and actually harmful, but in and of itself can be great when it’s used in this way.

And in this timing, for instance, you’re talking back to your mom. You’re yelling at her, not the best idea, but when you are in a boardroom, when you’re an adult and things go awry and you need to say the hard thing and stand up for the injustices, that’s pretty remarkable. So we as parents, we have the harder work to do, but we can definitely shape our kids, even if we don’t know their type, but definitely from teenage on is when you can start to kind of ask the questions and investigate.

JoAnn Crohn: That is interesting. This has been fascinating, Beth. Like I’ve learned so much more about the Enneagram from this conversation. And I want to know like, what is exciting for you coming up in your life?

Beth McCord: Yeah. Well, we just released the book in the summer. So, the any room for moms is kind of, you know, just what I’ve been spearheading. You know, we have lots of books out there. We have even journals for each of the nine types to learn about themselves. But this book, I think for moms, it’s a book that I Wrote to my younger self that I wish I had had.

And so I know it’s going to be a real blessing to all moms. And here’s the thing it’s for all moms of all stages. My kids are adults and I have a grandson and I use the Instagram all the time with my kids. It’s so important because I could totally say something and it land on them wrong. And I can have those conversations with them and repair quickly because I know where they’re coming from. And so this is definitely for. All moms of all stages. So this is what I’m really excited about.

JoAnn Crohn: Awesome. I’m excited to look into it more to see like what kind of more questions I can ask my daughter since she’s

Beth McCord: Yeah. And in the back of the book, there’s a whole section on the kids core motivations, and it’s written in a way that you can kind of dialogue with them, but also what they’ll look like in their type when they’re healthy, average and unhealthy. So we’ll give you kind of heads up.

JoAnn Crohn: Cool. that. is awesome.

Brie Tucker: Yay!

JoAnn Crohn: sure it’s available on Amazon, right? Beth,

Beth McCord: Yeah, that’s it. It’s

JoAnn Crohn: you buy books, anywhere you buy books, we’ll have a link to the Amazon right at the bottom of the show notes, and thank you so much, Beth, for joining us today.

Beth McCord: Thank you for having me.

JoAnn Crohn: That conversation with Beth was so like, I’m still wiping away my tears and it’s like, we got off with her about ten minutes ago, but, oh, it hit, it hit hard.

Brie Tucker: it’s crazy. So like we were talking about that, like, and you’ll hear me. I’m like, Oh my God. It’s like, you’re in our conversations. Like the exact words that we use. And it’s taken us years to figure out how to do that. And you talk about it when the interview, like, I feel like the reason we figured out how to do it was because one being good friends for so long, we know that neither of us has ill will.

So we have an open mind in the conversation too. We study communication so much with what we do here at No Guilt Mom. And we’re both introspective people to begin with, but also know that it’s something that you have to do being a parent and being a better communicator.

JoAnn Crohn: Oh, yeah.

Brie Tucker: But it would have been nice to have that shortcut years ago.

JoAnn Crohn: it would have been nice, but would we have believed it? That’s the thing It’s like would we have believed it? I don’t know if we would have it’s like when you were having the conversation with your husband Just now and he’s like, yeah, horoscopes. They’re accurate. I mean Like disbelief until you actually you go through it. You’re like, oh my gosh, you totally got me

Brie Tucker: Yeah. Yeah. Like totally, totally. That’s so me.

JoAnn Crohn: hearing him. He’s like like a psychic

Brie Tucker: Yes.

JoAnn Crohn: be my husband to it’d be my husband to it’s it’s hilarious Well, we hope you got a lot out of this and you are interested in finding your own Enneagram and how it relates to your personality and until next time remember The best mom is a happy mom. Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later

Brie Tucker: Thanks for stopping by.