Podcast Episode 357: How 1 Simple Sentence Will End Decision Fatigue for Moms Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

JoAnn (00:00.428)

And I think the magic of this telling our partners that we just want to make no decisions is it’s crystal and clear that this is the outcome we want. Want it done, no decisions, getting it done whatsoever. Just want to rest our brain.

Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast. I am your host JoAnn Crohn, joined here by the lovely Brie Tucker.

What’s up? Hello, Everybody. I’m still working on it. It comes and goes every once in a while.

Yeah, and Brie is working on all the things. So I can hear as your friend that that yo yo yo WhatsApp did not have your classic energy with it because you’re struggling with the back stuff and everything, all the stuff.

to say is that getting older SUCKS!

JoAnn (00:44.074)

Yeah. SUCKS! It sucks.

Brie

yes, future future Brie is telling all of our younger listeners, keep your back muscles strong. Keep them strong. That’s all I’m going to say. And poof, I am gone.

Train for the life you want to live. Exactly. Yes. Well, today’s episode, probably everyone listening relates to because have you ever uttered those magical words like, I don’t care. You decide. But when you really do care.

Brie (01:02.645)

Yes! yeah, yeah, yeah. I did that so much to Miguel yesterday. I think it was getting on his nerves. I was just like, I can’t make a nerve decision. And he’s like, I’ve been taking care of you. He didn’t say it, but in his head, I’m imagining in his head, he was thinking, I’ve been taking care of you for a week. I am done making decisions.

yeah, he must have some decision fatigue as well because today we’re gonna go into whether that like, don’t care you decide is the most genius thing or the most disastrous thing that you could do for your relationship. And it’s going to be such a fun episode because you have us, we have you. Also stay tuned to the end of the episode because we know as a no guilt mom, we hear this all the time from you how much trouble you have delegating things and maybe you don’t know like what to delegate or what to like give up. We have a list of 52 tasks you can delegate in your house using this method we’re talking about in the podcast today. So stay tuned till the end and let’s get on with the show.

INTRO MUSIC

JoAnn (02:58.232)

So the idea for this episode came about based on the discussion I was having with my mom. So shout out to my mom. She was talking about how right now she is recovering from knee replacement surgery, which by the way, if you know nothing about knee replacement surgery, apparently it is the most painful surgery ever to recover from. Like my mom heard this on her pre-op a day before going in and she’s like, yeah, like.

The nurse was talking, yeah, I got my shoulder replaced. got nothing’s as painful as knee replacement surgery. So this is what my mom is dealing with right now, recovery. And my dad’s taking care of her and he does a great job doing that. But also she just wishes he would be able to do stuff without her telling her what to do. She doesn’t want to have to take on all that mental load. She wants him to just see what needs to be done and does it.

And I was like, yeah, I totally know what that’s like. In fact, when I’m in that mood, I tell Josh, my husband, you know, I just want to make no decisions. You take care of it. And she’s like, I haven’t tried that. Just not making any decisions. then I talked to you about it, And I was like, have you ever told Miguel something like that? I just want to make no decisions.

Never once. That’s not how it comes out of my mouth. Now, have I tried to articulate that? I thought I had. But when you said it so simply of, just want to make no decisions, I’m like, wow, I’ve never tried that directive and approach. And it kind of made me feel a little silly for not. Because I’m like, that makes great sense. My answer would be something like, I don’t care. You decide. Yeah. Whatever you want is good. Just don’t do X, Y, like that kind of stuff. That’s about it.

JoAnn (04:49.272)

I think men get a little scared when they hear, don’t know, just you decide. Because I don’t know about you, Bri. I’ve done this. I’ve done this. I’ve been like, I don’t know, just you decide. And then like, he’ll do the thing. And I’ll be like, Yeah, And be little disappointed about how it all turned out.

Yeah, like I don’t think well, hopefully I’ve thought about the response, but I am certain because I mean, let’s just admit it. Like if anybody has ever met me in real life, you and I both, carry our feelings on our face. So I have no poker face. I cannot pretend like I’m totally happy with something when I’m not. I think it is a lot of pressure. I would say, especially when you are the one that they are trying to help.

Like they see that you are needing support and they’re trying to help support you so that the last they become like almost that fear of doing the wrong thing. Because yeah, because that would go against what they’re trying to do. And they don’t want to make us unhappy.

Yes, exactly.

JoAnn (05:45.644)

Yeah, and I think the magic of this telling our partners that we just want to make no decisions is it’s crystal and clear that this is the outcome we want. Want it done, no decisions, getting it done whatsoever. Just want to rest our brains. So think to yourself right now, listening to this, like, where are you today on a scale from I decide everything to the no decisions? Like, where are you in your decision fatigue spectrum? Just take like a mental note of that.

Say like if you need numbers and you need really defined criteria, one is I decide everything and a 10 is I don’t wanna make any decisions whatsoever, like tell me what to do. So keep that in mind and see like how this may help you because there’s a lot of science behind this decision fatigue that we all have. In a study on the impact of decision-making that was published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, researchers found that the more choices a person made,

the more likely, get this Brie, they were to give up, lose willpower and struggle with endurance. Yes!

Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I went a hundred percent, right? Like when you’ve had a long day and like people keep coming to you with problems. I’m like, nope, I’m done. I’m done for the day. You’re done. I like to consider myself like a nice little ostrich with my head in the sand. I am finished.

Yes, and I think that with like as moms, we’re really, really hard on ourselves in the areas of consistency and motivation. And if you think about it, since we’re making all these decisions for everybody else all the freaking day, no wonder we have problems with consistency and motivation in our own lives. Like who wants to work out after they’ve just had to like decide like snack choices for every single member of their family.

Brie (07:33.314)

Right. And especially, I think that we all feel it as the day goes on. Yes. As the day goes on and more and more decisions are needing to be made, even if they’re little things, they add up. They add up and that mental load just becomes so heavy to carry. Yeah.

And sometimes you don’t even realize the decisions you need to make. I was just thinking about this before we started recording, and I’m a little thirsty right now, but I’m also knew I was running late to meet with you. So there’s a decision right now. Do I go get water or do I stay here? And like all those little things that like compound throughout the day, they really add up and they tax our brains. I remember like there was this whole like,

being reported on years ago about how these high power CEOs decide to wear the same thing every single day. Do you remember seeing news about that? maybe it wasn’t high power CEOs. saw something about that with like a news anchor. So go on. I want to hear about this and then I’ll tell you.

Obama is one who like wore the same suit every single day. I know that Steve Jobs of Apple, he always wore like black turtleneck gray pants to reduce his decision fatigue. And part of me is like, can only men get away with that though?

Brie (08:54.11)

That, okay, okay. let me share that my story. So what I saw was it was a couple of different news stations that did this. They were, think, and it probably had to be about the same time as this went out because why else would they have done it at the same time? So they had a female anchor wear the same outfit for like a week. and I’m not sure she wore it for a week or just like wore it like two or three times during the week, but it was repeated.

And they were waiting to see what the viewers said back. And the male co-anchor did the same thing. Only complaints came in about the female. Of course they did. she wasn’t, right? So the answer to that from Bree’s armchair expert side of this is that yeah, only men can get away with it. Because women are like a lot more, we are judged a lot more. And I have even had a job where I worked at a hospital and we had

Yeah.

Brie (09:53.186)

I wasn’t like, I did child development, right? So I just had my quote unquote uniform, which was khakis of my polo. And I have to admit, did make a lot less stress every morning getting dressed, knowing that, okay, am I going to wear khaki pair number one, pair number two, or pair number three? Which one might feel like today? That was all I had to decide. All the rest was done for me.

Yeah, I know. It’s like a glorious, glorious thing. So if you are right now thinking, oh my gosh, I am so tired of all the decisions I have to make. I wish my partner would just take over more. We are going to tell you how to make this no decisions work for you right after this.

So, Brie, let’s talk about how to this no decisions thing work. Because as you said, a lot of people, think they’re communicating that they don’t want to make the decisions like you illustrated, but it’s actually not the case because there’s all this fear and this judgment tied in with the, don’t know, you decide, especially to our partners, just based on past experience they’ve had with us. And I’m guilty as well, for sure. For sure, for sure.

Yeah, on my end. So the communication of it is key. So we want to give you just a really, really easy phrase. And that phrase is, I just want to make no decisions. That’s it. I don’t want to make any decisions. You could even change it like this if you don’t like the no’s. I just want to make no decision. You know, it’s not exactly correct grammar. Come on, let’s say that.

Brie (11:19.246)

Oh, well, it’s still it does make it easy. I want to make no decisions. I want to have no decisions. So what not to say, don’t say whatever you want. Just because like that is tied with a lot of past experience, judgment, and it’s unclear.

100 % agree because one of the many things I love about my husband is his very open communication. So as I told you just yesterday, I was doing this to him. I was like, Oh, look, we’re near downtown Chandler. Would you like to pick a place to go eat for lunch? And he’s like, or I said, would you like to eat over this way? And he said, yeah, sure. And then I was like, okay, well, you look it up on your phone and find us a place to go. And he’s like, what? And I’m like, yeah, wherever you want to go, because I felt like

I didn’t say it to him, but I felt like I had been dictating our whole morning. And one, I was done dictating because I was done making decisions. And two, I felt like I was also not giving him an opinion, right? So I felt like he deserved his turn on making decisions. But instead what I did was put a lot of weight on his shoulder. It took him so long to figure out where to eat. Had I just been like, I want to make no decisions. I think he would have been much easier with that.

Would you have rephrased it? Would you have rephrased it like that?

Brie (12:41.268)

Maybe like we had to keep going back and forth and back and forth and I finally had to say to him like, look, I’m not the one who’s really that hungry. I know it’s you. So wherever you want to eat is fine with me. I was like, yeah, but I hadn’t said that in the beginning, right? I just said like wherever you want to go. So then he’s like, what do you want to sit down or do you want to like get fast food? And it’s like all that. And I’m like, whatever, whatever. Like it, it wasn’t helpful. And that would annoy the crap out of me if someone did that. I was going to say.

JoAnn (13:08.878)

As soon as you were clear of exactly what you were trying to achieve, he’s like, oh, I got it. Yeah. I got it. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. So right now, listening, like I’m giving you a lot of self-reflection today on this. Before you use this, you really have to decide, do you really want to make no decisions or do you want things done your way without having to say it?

yes, because those are two very different things.

Those are two very, very different things. And sometimes just asking yourself the question may make you realize, okay, I really don’t need this done in a certain way. Like you with the lunch, like I don’t need this done in a certain way. You’re hungrier than I am, totally go for it. And that gave your husband complete permission to actually do it.

And we went somewhere I would have never picked. I would have never picked. went to a breakfast place and I’m not a big breakfast person, so I wouldn’t have picked it, but they had mimosas, so I was happy.

It’s all about the mimosa. there are some things though that’ll happen when you start to use the strategy because it’s good to know about these little roadblocks. We like to call them things that’ll pop up so you can mentally prepare yourself for them before they do. First, the criticism urge on what your partner picks will strike. It’ll strike real hard.

JoAnn (14:32.908)

because I could tell you something about Mother’s Day, for instance, and this is just an issue of communication, because I wanted my husband just to get me a gift for Mother’s Day. Basically, I just wanted him to look like he was thinking of me on Mother’s Day. That was my only qualification in my mind. That was not how I communicated it. He came home with a card bought from the grocery store with the receipt still in the bag, and

It went totally against my thought process. I was like, this was not forethought. This was not thinking of me. This was like last minute, shit. This is to go get something. Yeah. And so the next Mother’s Day, he went and he got me a card with like a gift card to Banana Republic. And I realized opening it, I’m like, this isn’t what I wanted either. Like I don’t want, this is where I might lose some people. So stay with me.

Last-minute obligation.

JoAnn (15:31.564)

I don’t want material things. Like I didn’t want like an expensive gift card. I just wanted like to know I was loved and that’s the only thing I wanted. And so like the criticism came with him then picking up that gift card for me. That urge struck me to criticize it. And I had to step back and I’m like, what do I really want in this scenario? So when the criticism starts to bite you about what your partner picks, it could be,

That’s not your jam.

JoAnn (16:00.128)

a lack of clarity on your part about what you really want. You might not know what you really want. It may not have been communicated and it’s not their fault, but just a little mental note to step back and think about it.

You know what, I’m going to add a little thing to that because you brought up Mother’s Day. think that, and we’re easing into April right now. So Mother’s Day is just around the corner next month. But I think too that there’s a third factor that might come in there. So we talked about whether or not you really don’t want to make any decisions or you want them to know what to do without asking you because you want them to do it the way you want them to do it. Or I think there’s a third one that pops in there sometimes. Sometimes it’s just that you don’t want anybody to argue with you.

And so sometimes, and what I mean by that is like for me, for Mother’s Day, when you’ve heard me say this a million times over, for Mother’s Day and my birthday, I always ask for the same thing. Nobody to argue with me. Don’t argue with me. Whatever I say goes that day. That’s all I care. And to me, that is almost like the, want you to know what we need to do without asking. Cause it’s like the decision fatigue sometimes to me comes from the fight. And the fight is

It’s a loaded word. just mean like the give and take back and forth to come up with the compromise between everybody. Sometimes that’s the part that just makes me go, nope, I’m done. I’m out.

JoAnn (17:20.135)

yeah, the conflict, the conflict that comes with it. That’s totally understood.

I want everyone to be happy.

Yeah, yeah, like it’s I just I feel loved when nobody says that idea sucks, mom, I get that with kids. Yeah, with kids. It’s so hard. They will guilt you so much. There was actually a no guilt mom on Instagram who commented on one of the videos about mom rage and like explaining mom rage and how like doing things for everybody else. And she’s like, Yeah, but then like, my kids guilt me after I explain it. And they just tell me like, I’m doing things wrong or losing control. And her kids are 16 and 19 and 21. And my whole response to that was like,

JoAnn (18:05.934)

Well, they may not get it. They really, really may not get it. Oh, yeah. And the best we can hope for is maybe as they grow older, they’ll start to get it and they’ll start to learn about it. But that’s why you have us. You need us. Like, we will back you up so much, like, tell you that your kids are just wrong. They’re wrong.

Since I turned 30, and I would say my kids started school, I have told my mom at least a couple times a year, I’m so sorry. I didn’t realize how hard it was. Like I was such a butt. And honestly, if you ask me, I was easiest of the three, but I digress. I still feel like, right? Like I feel like I knew what I was talking about. I knew what I was doing when I was in high school, I knew what I was doing when I was in college, I knew what I was doing when I graduated college. No, I didn’t. No, did not. I did not understand their perspective at all. that’s another little.

It’s something kids learn. Well, it’s like we can’t expect kids to be completely functional in area yet. And I have to remind myself all that. I’m like, whenever my kids argue with me, I’m like, okay, they don’t have a fully functional frontal lobe. There’s no fully functional frontal lobe. Okay, take a deep breath. All their brain’s not there. Okay, let it

We think that they have it because they can do so beautifully on some tasks You know the fact that I don’t have to be in charge of the hygiene for my kids anymore. I love that. Yes. I love that

JoAnn (19:34.306)

But your partner has it. And it’s one of those, I think, back and forth arguments sometimes we get into. And I hear this a lot from women. Like, I just wish I didn’t have a third child. And by third child, they’re talking about their husbands. Yes. Because I think that some men do take advantage of that, of not being held to the standard of having to make the choices themselves and make the decisions themselves. Not all men. Some men do. Yeah.

And I think that the only thing that we could do to help with that is just to be very clear in our communication, be kind, and work from there. Marital therapy is actually a really great thing. I’ve heard in many relationships who have benefited from that. Just being able to communicate clearly with each other opened so many doors. And it’s something that I think like in our parents’ generation.

Nope. they thought the marriage would be failing if they had to go to therapy.

Brie

Right? I hear that like that has been said by both of my parents whenever I’ve ever said anything like, hey, we’ve got a lot going on in our family right now. Have you ever thought about going to a therapist to talk about all that stress that’s happening or the grief and everything? And they’re both like, nope, uh-uh, we’re fine. We’re fine. And I’m like, really? It seems like they think that it’s a sign of weakness or wrongdoing by reaching out to another.

JoAnn (21:06.326)

I know, and it’s not, can help so much. It can help clarify things so much. Therapists can point out things that you don’t even see are happening. So can coaches as well. They can point out a pattern of behavior that you’re having. And as soon as you see it in yourself, you’re like, this is under my control. I can go and work on this. And then that’s really empowering. So we talked about a few roadblocks. We talked about that criticism urge is gonna strike. And we also talked about how things won’t necessarily be how you like it. Right after this break, we are going to give you three things you could do with your partner to really put this no decisions into place as well as tell you how to get those 52 tasks that you can delegate to your partner. So stay tuned.

So Brie, let’s get into like the action point of it because here at No Guilt Mom, we are action takers. We love it when people take action because even if the action isn’t right, ends up being right, it gives you a lot of information as to what you can do next time. So as far as delegating things with your partner, the first thing to do with this no decisions thing is to really… decide which domains you’re having decisions in and which one your partner is having decisions in. So for example, the decisions in our house about what to eat, they’re mine because I care. I care about what to eat.

No, I like that that that’s a good point like there. Yeah, keep going and then I will say peace on this I mean, my husband likes to do the make them hot philosophy. That’s how he cooks. He’s like, I make it hot. So like when I was teaching a master class at night, I’m like, hey, I really need you to take over dinner, do whatever. just don’t want to make any decisions about it. He took some meat from the fridge, added some taco seasoning and warmed up a can of beans. And we mixed it with rice and we had like makeshift taco bowls. And it was totally fine. It was fine. I can eat that way, but I can’t eat that way all the time because I like my flavors and I like my veggies most of all.

It’s really hard just to make veggies hot and taste, make them taste good. Cause those freezer bags of veggies, they don’t do it.

Brie (23:20.106)

yeah, no, I can’t eat. The only person that gets freezer veggies at our household is the dog when we make it up.

Food. Well, yeah, they don’t have any flavor.

Like, yeah, yeah, I feel like that was like, my kids will tell you I suck. I am not the best cook. And I would tell you like, because I didn’t know how to cook vegetables at all. I thought you could just open a can, throw it in the microwave, you know, take the freezer bag out, put them in the microwave, throw a little bit of butter and salt and all life was good. I had no idea that vegetables could be crunchy.

They have a whole different flavor profile when they’re fresh. It’s amazing. It’s actually like my husband thought he hated broccoli for the longest time until he tasted fresh roasted broccoli. And then he’s like, oh, I think I like this.

So yeah.

Brie (24:05.87)

I’m not on the broccoli bandwagon yet, but I am on the Brussels sprouts bandwagon.

That’s a harder bandwagon I think you’re getting. Better. Yeah.

No! I know! Very surprised! Well, because I like them a certain way. Got balsamic and some of that bacon and life is like that.

I digress. Got it. Got it. I see how this happens. so that’s the first one. Create designated decision domains. So I said mine, which is a pretty typical one I feel like women take on. My husband’s are like, he does the trash stuff. He organizes like transportation stuff, cars, things like that. He manages all of our investment stuff like rental properties. He makes decisions there, although I am brought in on those money decisions too.

JoAnn (24:51.596)

because that is important in relationship. Always know where your money is going in a relationship. But make sure you have those designated decision domains so that you know when you need to take action and when you don’t need to take action. Now, just saying those out loud makes me feel a little eh, because ours are kind of divided on gender lines. Like, do you feel like yours, tasks in your house are divided along gender lines?

I’d say no, but it wasn’t my first marriage. But we actually made a conscious decision to kind of do it that way. I just got resentful after a while when I felt like mine kept loading up and his did not. And if you’re wondering what I’m talking about, we have that episode with Mary Catherine Starr and her Mom Life comics. And she talks about that and it does it in a really great way about how it could sneakily have it happen. And this set up right now with our home,

Well, actually, I guess so. You know, my husband does make all the decisions about what’s outside of the house. like we live in a townhouse, we don’t have a yard, but we have a patio. He makes all the decisions about where that goes. He decides on if he wants to buy like new electronics for the house. I don’t but I feel like it drops.

That’s what I was gonna say. comes down to who gives a crap more. I don’t. I don’t give a crap about that I don’t either.

We had to get a new router and I was about to order the cheapest thing from Amazon and he’s like no Let me do this

Brie

That would be Miguel too. would say the same thing. He’d like, yeah, yeah. And I would get something way bigger than I needed, but it would last and it would do everything that was thought of that I wouldn’t have realized I possibly needed.

So maybe. So that’s the first one. Create those designated decision domains. The second one is just setting those basic parameters for like what you expect if you’re going to get if you’re going to say no decision. So for example, last night I would much prefer not to make any decisions over dinner and just let everyone door dash it. I mean, that’s where my mental state was. My husband did not. And so I decided I was like, OK, cool. Well, you can make dinner.

and then I’m gonna go get some Froyo. That was like my… Yeah, it’s like you could totally make the decision on dinner and then I will go make Froyo and I’ll go get Froyo. And that was my basic parameter on that one.

Because that’s what I wanted for dinner. I mean, I think that’s a good point. It really is. So yeah.

So you don’t have to get too complex with it. could be whatever you want. And then the last one, which I am still working on, Vri, as I know you are, is learning to speak up when to let go. When do you speak up and when do you let go? A lot of the decisions I make, I usually choose to let them go when they’re like decisions that I have told him he could make. I just bite my tongue and move on.

It takes practice. It takes practice to get there. think because like when you’re new and you’re shiny in a relationship, you do a lot and you, we give a lot of leeway to our partners because we, they’re new, they’re shiny, they’re amazing. It’s so cool. Everything’s so awesome. And so like, who cares if he made the mistake? It’s only once. Now come back like, you know, years and years and years later, and that mistake has been made 5,692 times.

And that patience of yours of like, you’re so cute and adorable. It’s like, I want to just crush your skull. Why can’t you stop doing that?

So I did.

It does take a lot more of breathing. then like, and if you do need, like you said, if you feel like you cannot keep this in, it’s going to make you explode, then just make sure that you’re saying it in a way that doesn’t sound like they have screwed up. Because like you said, you had left the decision to them.

Also, it may be an indicator that you care about this more than they do, and it may need something that needs to be on your decision.

OK, that was on my job right there. I would not have really thought of that, but you’re right. Sometimes we think we don’t care about it, but then we have to ask ourselves, why is this bothering me so much? turns out I do care more than I thought.

I’m sure that Josh would get really, really mad at me if he said, I don’t want any decisions on the technology front. And then I picked everything. And he’d be like, no, you need to do this right here. I need you to do that right. I’m sure it would be the same. So it’s just being clear on what you really, really care about. I cannot wait to hear your experiences with telling your partner you want to make no decisions. And if you need some ideas on what areas to do this in, we have.

52 ideas for you, 52. And here’s how you’re gonna get them. You’re gonna go over to Instagram, go to NoGuiltMom. It’s at NoGuiltMom. And then you’re going to DM me the word deck. D as in dog, E, C as in Charlie, K as in Karen. And it refers to, think of 52 things, 52 cards in a deck. That’s how you remember that one.

JoAnn (29:50.126)

So DM DEC, and that’ll start the little chat bot going, and you’ll get that list of 52 things that you can delegate to your partner.

We just helped like by getting that deck, you’re going to figure out a way to make less decisions without making the decision on what to get rid of. It’s right there.

It’s gonna be great. It’s gonna be great. tell us how it goes for you. Just respond to me back in the Instagram. Comment on Instagram. Go message us there. And until next time, remember the best mom’s a happy mom. Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later.

Brie

Thanks for stopping by.