Podcast Episode 272: How Mom Guilt Is Hurting Us In Motherhood Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

Renee Reina: we’re all experiencing a lot of these things, no matter how much money we have, how many friends we have, it doesn’t matter. Like, mom guilt, feeling not good enough, comparing yourself to other people, feeling criticized, It’s universal. 

JoAnn Crohn: Welcome to the no guilt mom podcast. I am your host JoAnn Crohn joined here by the loosey goosey facey Brie Tucker. She was making faces at me while I was doing my intro. She’s like her, her fingers are hooked in her mouth and like the top. Yeah. Yeah, so

Brie Tucker: Okay, I think that we’re going to give everybody a gift, maybe that becomes like a short reel at some point, so people can see what you have to deal with on a regular basis. When you’re friends with Brie, it’s weirdness on a regular

JoAnn Crohn: crazy. It’s crazy and weirdness. We have a great episode for you today. It is with Renee Rina of The Mom Room. And if you follow Renee on Instagram, you know what a delight she is and how funny she is. Renee is the host creator of the mom room podcast, and she is changing the narrative around what it means to be a mom. She’s the mom to a five year old son. She lives in Canada. We are going heavy into the mom guilt today during the episode, where it comes from, how to look at it differently. We have tons of funny stories for you,

Brie Tucker: And how Reddit is just evil.

JoAnn Crohn: Yes, including how everybody hopped on something that Renee posted that was a joke between her and her husband and accused her of being a horrible wife. So we have that for you today. Enjoy the show and let’s get going.

 Renee, can you, pronounce your full name for me, just so we have it?

Renee Reina: So online, it’s Renee Reina. but like, that’s not actually my last name. People get confused. They think my last name is Reina, but it’s actually my middle name.

JoAnn Crohn: Oh!

Renee Reina: But I go by Renee Reina, so.

JoAnn Crohn: Renee Reina. Okay, so we’ll just, we’ll introduce you as Renee Reina then. Why did you decide to go by your middle name and not your last name?

Renee Reina: I don’t know. I thought it was weird to have my last name out there, but now, I think people like figured out like it’s on my profile now because you had to put whatever name is on your passport 

JoAnn Crohn: Uh huh, or your license. Yeah, uh, 

Renee Reina: like damn it well that defeats the purpose of going by my middle name 

JoAnn Crohn: I kind of get upset that like my married name is out there, I wish it was my maiden name, because I feel it’s more me than my married, I don’t know. I’m, I could be weird about that. I could be weird about that. Just cause I’ve had it for longer. Although at this point, probably not. It’s because

Renee Reina: I know I feel like if people if people want to find something out about you like they will. Oh totally.

JoAnn Crohn: Totally. They’ll go down the rabbit hole and it’ll be like, yeah, they could do it. Reddit in particular, they’re very good at that and being trouble. you say the, oh yeah, like you have had an experience with this Reddit train,

Renee Reina: No, I have friends that are on Reddit and they send me screenshots. I have like whole, what’s it, what do they call it? Like a, 

JoAnn Crohn: subreddits or like,

Renee Reina: Oh yeah.

Brie Tucker: That’s what they are. They’re subreddits.

Renee Reina: Yeah. And they like talk shit about every single thing that I post. I’m just like, Okay.

JoAnn Crohn: a hobby. Go get a hobby!

Renee Reina: feel for these people, like, to be honest. I’m just like, wow, I can’t imagine spending my life caring that much about what people are doing online. And then, like,

Brie Tucker: Right.

Renee Reina: they, they hate what I’m posting. Okay, so, oh, she’s always talking about her period or, pooping or whatever. So they screenshot what I post. And then they go and put it on Reddit. I’m like, if you hate it so much, like, why are you screenshotting it and then re putting it out there?

Brie Tucker: are you listening, still listening, and then promoting it

Renee Reina: I know. people that, hate watch you?

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, yes, we got hit by a Reddit thread, actually, where we got, like, all of these, one star comments. they, misinterpreted something that we did. We, we,put out an episode on the day that the, our guest actually passed away. It’s a sad story, it was Dave Hollis, and it was just, coincidental.

It was coincidental and we’re like, Oh my gosh. Um, like he passed away and it was such a great episode. Like he was in such a great light, positive light that we’re like, Hey, let’s just put it out there. The Redditors jump on and we’re like, yeah, you’re doing this for fame and like all the money. And we’re like, yeah, this is so much money.

Brie Tucker: there’s not a lot of money in independent podcasting for

Renee Reina: Literally. 

Brie Tucker: of all, yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: come on our yacht? Yeah.

Brie Tucker: It fits in my bathtub.

Renee Reina: Yeah, exactly. That’s wild. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: hilarious. So, Rene, you, you have a Ph. D. What 

Renee Reina: Mm hmm. Psychology.

JoAnn Crohn: Psychology. And then, so, what were you, coming out of school and having a Ph. D., were you thinking of going into a career, as a therapist or an

Renee Reina: Oh, okay. I thought you were gonna say as a podcaster. I was

JoAnn Crohn: No!

Brie Tucker: You’re like, yes, that was always my dream. I

JoAnn Crohn: Oh, he’s a podcaster, Ph. D. podcast,

Renee Reina: Yeah. No, I envisioned myself being a professor, but like you always have these lovely visions when you’re younger. Like when I was a lot younger, like at the beginning of grad school, I was like gonna be Carrie Bradshaw in New York

JoAnn Crohn: all of us, yes, and the apartment to right, yes, mm

Renee Reina: I was like, I’m never getting married, I’m not having kids, I am Carrie Bradshaw, basically. And then when I got older, I was like, Okay, I’m gonna be a professor. Really wanted to do that, was doing all the things to make that happen. But then you start to realize, oh, I’m in a relationship with this guy who is gonna be a physician and in Canada the way it works is, it’s very hard to get a job as a specialist because there’s only so many allotted spots.

So, to be a professor you kind of have to be willing to move wherever you get a job like these jobs are very few And far between and the same goes for my husband So like what are the chances we’re both going to get these jobs in the exact same city? Like it’s just not going to happen. So then I started to be like Okay, I’ll probably work at a big research center in Toronto.

My psych stuff was a lot, very heavy into health research. So I was like, okay, I’ll work out of a research institute in Toronto. And then we had a a baby and we lived like 45 minutes outside of the city. My husband’s a physician. He’s on call all the time. I’m like, how the did I expect to commute downtown Toronto, the worst traffic in the world, and have a baby with a husband that has this kind of job?

And I still like, that’s in my mind what was going to happen. But then I graduated from my PhD. I had my son While I was in my PhD program. I was almost finished. I took a 12 month maternity leave started school back up after the 12 months when I graduated like I finished my PhD my dissertation and like days later is when the world shut down for 

JoAnn Crohn: gosh. 

Renee Reina: so It was like this weird, like it was meant to be, I’m lucky that it happened in that way, like obviously quarantine and the pandemic was terrible, but the silver lining is while I was in quarantine, is when I started.

Doing social media stuff and making TikToks and started the podcast and now that’s what I do full time Super flexible. I work for myself and I don’t have to worry about commuting downtown anymore So that’s like how that all happened. It’s funny how life just changes, right?

JoAnn Crohn: It just throws things at you, for sure, do you ever think that you will get back into that academic side and like research and use your Ph. D. in that way, or are you kind of like, I’m glad what happened happened,

Renee Reina: I’m very hap like I’m obsessed with what I do now. I can’t imagine no, going back into that. It’s one of those fields where it’s if you’re out for a while, like I finished in 2020, so it’s been four years, people are gonna be like, What, what have you been doing? You know, it’s all about, what research have you put out, uh, you know, what’s your CV look like?

It’s very much like that, so I can’t imagine doing anything with my degree in the traditional sense, but, writing a book? Sure. doing multiple different podcasts or, YouTube shows, whatever. I feel like this is more my, my vibe anyways. Yeah. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: it’s funny about like how many kids today like Bri and I both have teenagers and the amount of kids who like want to grow up and be YouTubers versus like our generation where we just fell into it. And like it didn’t exist when we were kids. We had no aspirations of being YouTubers. Being a podcaster, being a YouTuber, because it just didn’t exist.

Brie Tucker: well, it’s funny because like you say that and like we had Zachary Watson on recently, right? And he was like, this is what I wanted to do. I wanted to be a YouTuber and he’s Yeah, wanted to be on like social media and I think he’s probably the youngest I’ve met of that gen or the

Renee Reina: Do you know how old he is?

JoAnn Crohn: He’s like 34,

Brie Tucker: Yeah, so I want to say, yeah, I want to say it was when he was in college he decided that’s like kind of like the route he thought he wanted to go and then I mean he’s, he’s made it happen but like I said again for JoAnn said for us. We were all just kind of like, okay, because, again, AOL chat rooms were new for us, like, at least for me, so.

Renee Reina: know. I know. I loved making videos when I was younger. And I always say if I was born later in life, I would be a YouTube star, like I would be that, what’s his name, like Ryan’s

JoAnn Crohn: Oh, Ryan’s World, where he has like all this toy line and TV show

Brie Tucker: And he’s seven?

Renee Reina: yeah, that literally, that would be me, like I was so into making videos and stuff, but then, And then I was an athlete my whole life.

I was never, into school or an academic kind of person, but once I decided to not play volleyball anymore, I had a scholarship in the States, did that for a year, hated it, came back to Canada and was like, okay, I’m My university back home didn’t have a volleyball team. So I was like, okay, I guess I’m not playing volleyball anymore.

and really what are you going to do long term with volleyball? So I’m like, okay, I’ll do like the school thing. I’ll be, an academic person. And then once you get sucked into the academic world, it’s you can’t see out of it. You’re just like, gotta keep going, put my head down, keep going.

JoAnn Crohn: that’s kind of the mentality. 

Renee Reina: yeah, there was like no other option. It was like, I just have to keep like pumping out research. 

JoAnn Crohn: That does not sound like a good life. It doesn’t matter. Yeah, I would be like, that would be my hell. Pumping out research, I’d be like, oh my gosh. 

Renee Reina: like crunching numbers, going to class, like, 

JoAnn Crohn: oh. So now you talk all about mom life, and

Renee Reina: Mm 

JoAnn Crohn: mom guilt, and I want to get into that right after this. So, Renee, you, got into this surprisingly during the pandemic and now you talk about mom life and especially mom guilt. I know when I go on podcasts, I’m always stuck by this question, so I’m wondering what you have to say about it. how would you define mom guilt? Mom guilt.

Renee Reina: I always describe it as something that ruins moments that should be enjoyable in motherhood. there’s certain situations where I always use the example of, it’s a sunny Saturday afternoon, and when you live in Canada, You know, those days are like, ooh, we should be outside, you know, like the sunshine guilt.

And I remember thinking like, I’m exhausted. And it was a day in quarantine that this happened. And My son wanted to watch, he was obsessed with Toy Story at the time and I’m like, okay, we’re sitting inside in the afternoon watching Toy Story and I could crawl out of my skin. I’m like, we should be outside, we should be walking around, playing in the backyard, doing a sensory table, like something, something, something.

And that struck me as oh my god, I could be snuggling my cute little frickin baby and watching Toy Story happily with him. But instead I’m not even in the moment of like I’m not enjoying what’s happening right now even though this is such an enjoyable moment because I’m Thinking about what we should be doing or okay if we’re sitting here and we’re gonna watch this movie It’s gonna be like an hour and a half long then we’ll go outside and we’ll do this and to make up for the fact that we’re watching a movie and it’s sunny outside like Nuts.

So that was when I really started talking about it because I was like, this sucks. Like this is actually like sucking the enjoyment out of things. That should be enjoyable. we’re not robbing a bank here. we’re watching Toy Story, and it’s sunny outside. 

JoAnn Crohn: I don’t think we would have the guilt when we’re robbing the bank. That’s the funny thing. Like, you know, we’d probably be like, yeah, we got it. We got all the money.

Renee Reina: I know.

JoAnn Crohn: So I think about that and mom guilt and I’m like, we would have so much enjoyment of robbing a bank. And then I think about like, why, where does this mom guilt come from? how do we have it and it like wrecks everything that we do? do you have any theories on that one?

Renee Reina: I feel like it comes from expectations, obviously. Like, my very first podcast episode that I ever put out was called Momposter Syndrome, and it was all things that lead to this feeling of Being an imposter in this role in our life. And it’s I feel like it’s like a perfect storm. there’s so many things that contribute to it.

There’s not just like one thing that makes us have these thoughts. It’s like society’s portrayal of motherhood, like what we grew up watching, maybe our own upbringing. Like my mom was a stay at home mom. She had her kids in her twenties, very different situation from the world that I live in right now.

But that’s what I knew, like she’s making homemade dinners every day, like doing all the things, like had three kids. My dad worked out of town for the majority of my childhood. Like he would come and go, he worked overseas. And I’m like, how did she do that? You know? And. so like, we’re comparing to our own upbringing, we’re comparing to what we see on social media. we know. One of the things that I was shocked about becoming a mom is the culture of it. it’s not. Nice, it’s like you feel like everybody has an opinion about something like it’s you feel like You know I would go to the mommy and me Playdates when Milo was a baby and I’m like taking out my formula and I’m like, oh I feel weird You know like even though 

JoAnn Crohn: whole nursing versus formula. Yeah,

Renee Reina: it’s just like you can’t win You can’t do anything, right? somebody’s gonna say that something else is better and 

JoAnn Crohn: mm hmm.

Renee Reina: it 

Brie Tucker: even better yet, those snide comments of, I don’t know how I did it when I didn’t have that knowledge or I didn’t have that such and such. And you’re like, yeah, thanks.

Renee Reina: Know all the people that are like, oh, like I’m not ever allowed to complain about anything because my husband’s a doctor I’m like, okay, so that that discounts any kind of you all of your experiences and your feelings. So, it’s So,

JoAnn Crohn: interesting because there’s always something like that. Like we just had our retreat last weekend and one of like our, our balance members was saying that she used to be told that she has no reason to complain because she’s pretty. Like she’s pretty. She has no problems. And she was like, what does that mean? Like, I don’t get

Renee Reina: so many people even and like I take it to the level of People will shit on something that like Chrissy Teigen does or like they’re criticizing her and in my mind. I’m like You I still feel for her, like, she’s still a mom that is dealing with all these things that do not discriminate between, anybody.

we’re all experiencing a lot of these things, no matter how much money we have, how many friends we have, it doesn’t matter. Like, all these, mom guilt, feeling not good enough, comparing yourself to other people, feeling criticized, It’s universal.

Brie Tucker: Yeah. Doesn’t care, doesn’t care how much money you make, where you live, none of that.

JoAnn Crohn: matter. Yeah. I’ve thought a lot about, like, the mom guilt and why, obviously, because we have no guilt mom. But, what, like, where it comes from and what, has created it, I totally agree about the expectations part. some of it is, I think like not just our expectations, but expectations that have gone down like throughout history.

There’s this amazing book and we’re having her on the podcast. Her name’s Elise Lunen. It’s called On Our Best Behavior and she dissects the seven deadly sins and how they have created this version of what it means to be a woman. And like she tracks like all of these guilty things that we have are basically like traced back to the seven deadly sins.

So like things like how our eating behavior and how much we weigh. Well, that’s traced back to gluttony and like our competition with other women. It’s like envy. It’s so, so good. And so interesting. And so I look at things like that, that have existed throughout history. And originally those sins were created by just one Pope in the Catholic church, one Pope who wanted to get control over. The whole public so that the church could get more money, so that they would donate more money. And it’s like looking at one little instance like this and how we take it as complete truth throughout all the years and especially the role of women, in families. So I just, I find it fascinating.

Renee Reina: Yeah, it is. It’s like these things are like deeply ingrained andas you become more aware of it, like now I catch myself and I’m like, okay, like one of the biggest things that I do is I, instead of for example, the watching Toy Story thing. Instead of, focusing on that exact situation, that moment, I, like, zoom out.

I’m like, okay, what have we done in the last month? Okay, we’re fine. Or like, we’re getting takeout again, or, we’re going through a drive thru. Instead of being like, ugh, I’m a piece of shit, I didn’t make dinner again, I’m the worst. I’m like, okay, what is our diet like? what have we been eating in the last month?

JoAnn Crohn: instead of just like, zooming in on the one tiny situation, let’s like, Take a, uh, like zoom out and take a bigger look at the whole picture, Yeah. And it’s a good thing. and it’s interesting that you bring up the dinner thing, because that’s something I wanted to ask you about. a lot of how we portray, be portrayed as women is we’re always happy. We’re always supportive. We’re always like, like there and nice. And there was a reel you posted about you eating, yes, you know it, because it went berserk on you.

Renee Reina: It’s still, it’s 

JoAnn Crohn: it’s still going

Renee Reina: It’s still going.

JoAnn Crohn: And this reel is, she is eating, okay, totally relatable by the way. As my teenager would say, I’d be like, so real. Eating macaroni and cheese out of the pot with the wooden spoon. And her husband’s coming up behind her being like, hey. Do you like my shoes? Are my

Renee Reina: Are these shoes cool? Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: cool? And he holds it up for the camera. And, and Renee’s I don’t know what’s cool on me. What do you expect me to know what’s cool on you? We’ve talked about this already.

Renee Reina: Yeah, so 

JoAnn Crohn: insane. so tell us about that one.

Renee Reina: So I just want to say, to put it into context, three days before, we’re sitting on the couch, and my husband shows me these shoes online, on his phone, and he’s do you think these are cool? I was like, I, I’m not in men’s fashion. I look at what I’m wearing, like, I don’t know.

so that happened. And then three days later, That happens and people are like, why are you filming yourself eating macaroni and cheese? I’m sorry, I create content for a living. I was gonna make a funny TikTok about eating macaroni out of the pot, okay? So I, that’s what I was doing and then he just so 

happened, to walk into me trying to make a funny video and then that happened and when we watched it back, we were like pissing our pants laughing and I was like, this is hilarious.

I’m gonna just post this. And then every once in a while I post a video and it just goes to the wrong end of the world and the wrong audience sees it and oh my god the comments I have been The last like three or four days I have just been screenshotting like the most ridiculous comments and I’m gonna do something with them I just haven’t figured it out yet, 

JoAnn Crohn: mean, what, what is the criticism? Cause the criticism I saw was like, you’re not nice to your husband or something like crap like that.

Renee Reina: like he should divorce me like I’m a narcissist. This is so toxic and like Unbelievable. And I’m like, how do you put so much weight into one tiny interaction? And honestly, like my husband and I like talking shit to each other and making fun of each other. that is our love language. I am. I would not want to have it any other way, to this day, he’s still, he’s leaving for a trip soon, and he like, is buying new things, and every time I see that he’s come home with something, I’m like, do you want me to tell you if that’s cool or not?

this, this will be a joke for us, for so long, and I just It blows my mind. I even get people like come to my page and then direct message me I’m like how like it’s a stranger on the internet like why are you going out of your way now to message them and be like I hate you like you’re a piece of shit like blah blah. I’m like, oh my god get a life.

JoAnn Crohn: it’s men. Is it men doing this you find? Or is it women

Renee Reina: some women too. but yeah, it’s it’s giving reddit. It’s giving

JoAnn Crohn: giving Reddit fives? There must be red. It must be on a Reddit somewhere. And 

Brie Tucker: Oh, there’s a lot of women hating Reddit. I’ll be honest, there’s a lot of women hating Reddit

JoAnn Crohn: I feel like though this is just like an example of how much criticism women take for like anything that they do and anything can be interpreted in that way. And we’re gonna get more into it right after this break. So. Women are basically judged for everything. So it’s like almost no wonder we have the mom guilt if we’re being constantly pointed out all of these ways that we are lacking and we are failing, especially as parents and as partners. Whereas I’m not seeing The guy’s getting this much hate about being dads or being husbands. do you guys see that?

Renee Reina: No. And I will say, I will say, and I’ve had this conversation with, I think it was Erica Jossa on my podcast, or on her podcast, I forget. But, she was explaining how, there’s a lot of mom creators who talk about all these topics, whether it be, like, mom guilt, default parenting, you know, all the things. And there’s like a handful of male creators that talk about these topics too.

JoAnn Crohn: hmm. We talked about this with Erica as well. Yes. Uh

Renee Reina: And it’s interesting because I will put out a piece of content and the response is like, why are you angry all the time? you’re so miserable. you’re so blah. And then someone like Zach will put it out and he gains a hundred thousand followers.

JoAnn Crohn: I know. It’s insane, isn’t it? 

Renee Reina: it’s literally

Brie Tucker: It’s hello double standard.

Renee Reina: Yeah, yeah,

Brie Tucker: So

JoAnn Crohn: It’s like you see it play out in real time when you compare women creators to male creators and male creators Who are like citing women’s work too. I mean Zach’s a good guy. Like he’s citing you Brodsky He’s saying all these things, but he’s saying the exact same things like Every all the women are saying and you’re

Renee Reina: yeah. And like, people will, people can digest the message when it’s a guy saying it, but when it’s a woman that’s online saying it and not being, like, saying it in more of a confident, manner instead of being like vulnerable and like oh poor me like people people can’t They can’t compute it. They’re just like why are you angry?

JoAnn Crohn: It’s crazy because like it’s like a bias that people have too. This was in. dr Kristen neff’s book, which was fierce self compassion the second one She was talking about how like in job interview situations like when men go to interview They can tell all of their requirements and say how they’re good at this and good at this but when women go to interview They do have to mention their requirements, but they also need one additional thing.

They need to say how they help other people in the office. And if they don’t say how they contribute to everyone else’s well being and how they’re helping everybody else, they’re judged more harshly than the males, even though they’re saying like, Just exactly the same thing and it’s because of this bias that exists so I’m like thinking about that in like terms of the mom influencers out there and I’m like is there a way to Not saying we should and I’m saying like this whole thing is completely dumb that we’re judged in this way but Is there a way where it’s we just throw in a little oh, and this helps everybody.

And like, how to like, use that little bit of research and human like, behavior to just get the message, make it more palatable for people. Even though it sucks.

Renee Reina: yeah, I I do notice like even for mom creators the ones that are very Like, portray, like, super vulnerable and like, you know, like, oh, having a hard time and blah, blah, blah. their accounts, through the roof. it’s wild to me, but that’s society, 

it’s it’s almost like it, we’ve talked before on the podcast here about this whole toxic gratitude thing, how you have to be grateful for everything. And I think that that’s part of what that backlash is, is like, Oh, well, if you’re being confident about what you’re saying, that is a struggle.

Brie Tucker: And you’re being confident about this isn’t fair. You’re not being grateful enough. 

Renee Reina: Hmm. Yeah, yeah. 

Brie Tucker: What? in like your case, like you were saying, Oh, your husband’s a doctor and you’re not grateful for the fact that, that he’s a doctor? oh my gosh, then you’re just not

Renee Reina: because people can’t comprehend that two things can be true at the

JoAnn Crohn: Mm hmm. Yes. Mm

Renee Reina: two things can be true and people on the internet cannot, that’s not something that they, want to acknowledge. It’s no, this is right. This is wrong. It’s the same with parenting topics, breastfeeding, formula feeding, sleep training, like all the things that are these like big hot topic parenting topics.

Brie Tucker: Mm hmm.

Renee Reina: It’s Both things can be true. this could be good for one person, this could be good for the other. can everybody just shut up about it? but no, there’s two camps of parents and like, one has to prove that this is the best, and the other one has to prove that this is the best. And it’s all because everybody’s insecure and has no idea what the they’re doing, and they just want to prove that what they’re doing is the absolute best. So they put other people down to increase their own self esteem for a moment and it’s creates this like culture that nobody wants to be a part of

Brie Tucker: Exactly. Exactly. And we don’t want, and honestly, you think about it now, and you’ve got your kids, and you’re like, I don’t want them to have to deal with this either. I don’t want them to have to feel like everything that they do is wrong

Renee Reina: Mm

Brie Tucker: when they get older. So we do what we do, but right? Like the three of us, we do what we do to try to help kind of like break that down a little bit of okay, it doesn’t have to be all team A or team B. It can 

JoAnn Crohn: think, too, when you’re talking about mom guilt, you really have to acknowledge that two things could be true. Yeah, you could be there sitting, snuggling your toddler and watching Paw Patrol, and you could also want to be going outside and thinking that that’s the best thing for your kid. Both things can’t happen at the same time.

So there’s always trade offs and there’s choices to make and they could be equally good and it’s a complicated issue to get around because it’s not how all of us were were raised I mean we were told right from wrong and having this gray area is very confusing for most people if they’re not exposed to it on a regular basis, but Yeah, I have to say that with my mom guilt all the time, and when I get around other women, I don’t see women like so much judging other people, but I see women really hard on themselves and they’re like, yeah, I’m not such a good mom or like I’m a horrible mom and it’s, yeah, I know, and

Yeah. JoAnn hears me like complain about it all the time.but it’s this thing about thinking one has to be true and the other’s false and it’s, it’s not like, right, you said, Renee, two things could be true at the exact same time. To end it on a good note, like what’s coming up for you that you’re really excited about

Renee Reina: Oh my god, I saw this question and I was like, first and foremost, summer, summer. I usually take a little bit of a, yeah, a break in the summer. Like I try and pre record things. I’m thinking about doing all just solo episodes this summer so that I don’t have to schedule anything. my husband and I booked a trip, just us, to Cancun

JoAnn Crohn: I’m going to Cancun. When are you gonna Cancun.

Renee Reina: in July? The first week of July.

JoAnn Crohn: that’s fine. I’m going in June. Are you doing an all inclusive?

Renee Reina: Oh, yeah, adults only.

JoAnn Crohn: Ooh. Is it a secret?

Renee Reina: No, LeBlanc. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: travel agent, so we hear about all the, all inclusives in Cancun and 

Brie Tucker: But all inclusive is the way to do

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, all inclusive. Yeah.

Brie Tucker: it.

JoAnn Crohn: That’s 

Brie Tucker: But nothing! 

Renee Reina: Yep, so I’m excited about that. Well, I also, I hired interior designers, this team, they’re local. These, it’s these three women to completely redesign. I have a studio in my basement.

Brie Tucker: Right. I’ve heard you talking about 

Renee Reina: I’m very excited. So I just signed the contract with them today. And so that’ll happen. And then probably in a lot, like relaunch the podcast in September, somehow I’m going to like change up the format, do something. Cause it’s been four years and I’m just like, I gotta do something different.

JoAnn Crohn: Gotta mix it up. 

Brie Tucker: Isn’t it crazy? Do, do either of you ever sometimes, go back to the, like, okay, and then the pandemic happened? And it seems like that happened, like you’re talking about last year. But like you just said, that’s four years ago.

Renee Reina: long 

Brie Tucker: crap! 

JoAnn Crohn: It’s gone by fast.

Renee Reina: Two episodes every single week for four years. I’ve never taken a break.

Brie Tucker: Oh my god. Girl, you do a break. Yeah, you’re due.

JoAnn Crohn: time to take a break. Well, Renee, it has been great talking with you. Please go listen to Renee’s podcast, The Mom Room. Anywhere else that you want people to go to find you, Renee?

Renee Reina: Oh my gosh. The mom room Instagram account is just like bumping. So it’s the mom room podcast on Instagram. Come enjoy. Like it’s all kinds of stuff on there.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. Well, it has been wonderful and we’ll talk to you soon. Bye. Bye.

Renee Reina: Thank you.

JoAnn Crohn: So I love talking about mom guilt, especially where it comes from. And what Renee said about like, you have to have two things in your mind at one time, and both can be true. And that’s something that a lot of people, especially on the internet, do not take. into account.

Brie Tucker: it’s crazy how divided I feel like our society is these days.it’s, I, I don’t, I don’t understand why people have to die on a hill every damn day. It’s exhausting.

JoAnn Crohn: well, yeah, and I also kind of want to blame social media algorithms for that because to keep you on platforms longer, they show you more about what you agree with, not what you don’t agree with. And so people are only exposed to these ideas that they agree with. And so they think it must be true for everywhere. And then when they see one person who does not fit in that category, it’s No, you’re wrong because I have all this proof of everything I’ve seen that is right. That’s like my theory on it. 

Brie Tucker: I think it’s a very good theory. Like, I mean, even though I know about algorithms and everything on social media, I hadn’t really thought of it that way. And you know what? That, that probably is, like, why we are so immensely separated. Good. These days, like so polarized and our opinions about things I just, I don’t know.

JoAnn Crohn: I mean, I have people in my life that are like that too, that are very, very much on their stance and they don’t understand how anybody can have a different opinion of it. And it’s are you serious? Do you not talk to anybody in the world? think it’s always.

Brie Tucker: different opinions.

JoAnn Crohn: interesting to hear people’s stories. And if you can get the story without people getting emotionally involved, like you suddenly have compassion for people. I think about this all the time on the subject of abortion, like usually how people feel about abortion, they have a personal story tied to it and a reason that they believe that way.

And once you can hear that story, you can feel compassion for that person, even though you decide not to agree with them. It’s like It’s, it’s being, like, it’s not being empathetic, it’s just being a curious person. I got that a lot. I was, I was good friends with somebody who was politically very different from me.

And yet I knew how, why she felt the way she felt about so many issues. And it was all personal experience. So I think that’s the key. I mean just be curious just find out other people’s stories And I think that’s a better world when we find that.

Brie Tucker: Every time you say be curious, I’m thinking of the Ted Lasso scene where he’s playing darts. Did you ever watch Ted Lasso?

JoAnn Crohn: Oh, yeah all ted lassos. Yes Be 

Brie Tucker: where he’s playing darts, and he’s playing against Rebecca’s husband, and he talks about the how he, growing up his dad drove by this like mural that said be curious, not judgmental and had people asked him questions like, did you ever play darts, Ted?

Yes. Every Sunday with my dad and I always think that whenever anybody says be curious. And I think that is like the best advice in the world. whenever you’re faced with somebody that has a completely different opinion from you, Be curious.

JoAnn Crohn: curious That includes kids like a lot of times like kids want something and we’re like no And instead of saying no if we dig down and be curious We can actually find a solution that makes them happy and makes us happy uh, you know which we teach how to do in balance. That’s like our phase three common happy parenting. it’s all about being curious. So as we leave you today, be curious today. Try to get to the bottom of things. And, we’ll see you next time. So remember, the best mom is a happy mom. Talk to you later.

Brie Tucker: Thanks for stopping by.