Podcast Episode 308: How to Master Productivity (even though it was built for a man’s world) Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

JoAnn Welcome to the no guilt mom podcast. I’m your host JoAnn Crohn joined here by the lovely Brie Tucker.

Brie Tucker Why hello, hello everybody, how are you?

JoAnn Brie Tucker doing some Billy Joe Armstrong facial expressions. We just went to the Green Day concert last night in Phoenix. And I have to say if you have not seen Green Day performed live Billy Joe Armstrong, he is an expressive dude. Yeah.

Brie Tucker He brings it. I had a feeling it was gonna be a good concert because I’d seen like little clips of things and he definitely seems to engage people. And you’ve heard me talk about how like my dream was to go see him when I was 14, like when the Dookie album came out, like I wanted to go, I wanted to go so bad. I want to say it was Green Day and Offspring together. So I mean, yes, it was a 90s pairing. It was both of their first large albums. So it was like

JoAnn Yeah. that was a 90s pairing for sure.

Brie Tucker And I didn’t get to go because they were sold out by the time my parents got around trying to get tickets, because whatever. And then I was supposed to see them a few years ago at a music festival and one of my kids got sick and I had to leave, so I missed that one too. But I’m glad I saw him. Yeah, I’m glad I saw him last night because I think that the venue was good. And I think had I seen him at 14 and he was still that angsty 20 year old, right? I think it would have been a little bit different. I think it would have been a little bit different.

JoAnn But you finally saw him.

Yeah, now he’s just a fun kind of like you could tell he’s a dad and he’s like making all these funny expressions and just like happy. my gosh, that was hilarious. Yeah, he made her life. Yeah, she was so excited. But today we’re not talking anything about that. We’re abrupt change.

Brie Tucker Yeah! my god, and he brought a girl up on stage to sing. He made life. He made her life right there. So that was amazing.

Well, I can say it brings it brings in the coffee for today and the

JoAnn Well, what’s what’s so funny is like my dad used to tell me when I was a kid, you could change subjects so fast. Joanne, you give people whiplash and I’m like, I do I can change subjects like that just so fast. But today, if you have felt frustrated and think that you have no routine, that your productivity sucks that your horrible time management, my gosh, you need this episode really, really badly. Because we’re here to tell you that it is not you. It is not you.

And helping us do that is Kendra dashes our guest today. She’s a two time New York Times bestselling author and host of the lazy genius podcast. She helps people be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things they don’t.

Her mission is to help identify that the struggle of women and moms in particular to manage their time and lives is not because of anything they’re doing wrong. It’s because of the current productivity paradigm that teaches greatness as a goal and her newest book, The Plan just released. So we hope you enjoy our conversation with Kendra.

JoAnn This week has been insane and I’m really tired

Brie Tucker Look at the size of the coffee I have this morning, Joanne.

Kendra Adachi That is the required size of coffee though. I’m here for it. I fully support.

JoAnn That I do, I have my cold brew right here, but it’s not, yeah.

Brie Tucker So like this week, so let me, I have to give you a tiny bit of backstory on that, Kendra. Like, so we had a whirlwind trip to New York City that we went on for Instagram.

JoAnn Like we left Monday morning and we returned Tuesday night. We were at the Instagram. Yeah, we were at the Instagram teen accounts launch. Yeah. I know it was a little, it was a little crazy, a little crazy. then last night. then, so we got that like invite last week. And so it was very, very last minute. And we’re like, okay, we got to get back by Tuesday night because Wednesday night we had.

Kendra Adachi That is fast. That’s fast if you’re like East Coast, but doing that from Arizona, that’s a whole thing.

Brie Tucker We both had tickets. Yeah, we both had tickets to go to the Green Day Smashing Pumpkins concert. And so it was one of those things where we are friends in real life. We’ve known each other since our daughters were in kindergarten, and we only live 10 minutes apart from each other. But we totally, on our own, bought tickets. And it wasn’t until recently that it was like, I’m going to Green Day. I’m going to Green Day. It’s like, OK, cool.

JoAnn Why Brie has green hair.

Kendra Adachi Stop it.That’s so fun.

Brie Tucker The concert didn’t even get over. mean, they played two whole, Green Day played two whole albums. Joey, got home at midnight. I left like 10 minutes before her. yeah, hence the need for the large coffee today.

JoAnn  Yeah, it was a lot. It’s a lot. So, but we are gonna have so much fun because yeah, all the travel time and stuff meant that I got to read and enjoy your book during that entire time. And I absolutely loved it. And I want to get into it because all.

Kendra Adachi Y ‘all need coffee today. Yeah, y ‘all definitely need coffee today.

Hmm. I’m glad. Thanks.

JoAnn I have such a anger against time management gurus and stuff like that. Like I read you do as well. So I’m so excited to talk with you Kendra. First of all, want to talk a little bit about your childhood and how you were like with organizing during childhood because in the book you mentioned that you had these like alphabetized books of like your classmates in class. Like tell me all the things. How were you as a kid?

Kendra Adachi Yeah.my gosh. I still don’t understand why anyone was friends with me and why I had a notebook of my…

JoAnn Yuck!

Kendra Adachi classmates in alphabetical order, first and last name. Like I would do different like scenarios of like, okay, so who’s, let’s do a boy, let’s do a girl, who’s gonna line up with it? Basically everything was trying to manufacture like a future life scenario in some way. was kind of silly, but I, so I grew up, I would say the best way to describe how I grew up is I was just a good girl. I was such a good girl. I got, yeah, I got a mate.

JoAnn Yeah, same.

Brie Tucker Yeah, yeah, good girl club.

Kendra Adachi Yes, it was like the grades, every teacher loved me, every mom, as the older I got, every mom wanted me to date their son. I was always called on to like show new kids around school and I was voted most dependable of my high school class. I was valedictorian of my high school. Like I was just very, very good, very compliant at home. But my home…

Brie Tucker Okay, you beat me. You beat me. I was definitely not that good. It’s okay. You beat me. I’m not that good.

Kendra Adachi Say it again. Sorry, broke up soon.I was very, very good. But the biggest reason that I felt like I needed to do that, womp, womp, is my home. I grew up in an abusive home. And so that being able to be compliant and structured and control what I could control was how I stayed safe. It’s how I felt like I could be a person. didn’t want to draw attention to myself. It was all these things. So it was a weird thing, and it took a lot of therapy later to sort of

name, how complex and layered and pretty awful it is for a little girl growing up and becoming a teenager and all these things that this these choices that I made to be in control of my time and my stuff and everything was listed and everything was checked off and I was very productive. Those behaviors to me were protective choices linked to something deeply traumatic.

And yet on the outside, they were validated by every single person that I ever encountered. know, like every person in authority, every adult in my life was just like, Kendra, Kendra is so great. And inside I’m like, I guess I got to do this always now. Cool. It’s so exhausting.

JoAnn That’s exhausting. That’s so interesting because I have a friend who is an amazing interior designer. She was a lawyer and then she quit being a lawyer to run her own interior design business. And she said the same exact thing about why she likes to decorate and redecorate her home. Her house was chaotic. Her mom suffered from mental illness and that her room was her sense of control. So it’s so interesting hearing that.

from you about how like, kind of like organizing behaviors and that sense of control starts to manifest. And then I’m guessing that there was some point in your life where like this sense of control just kind of like disintegrated, maybe around parenthood. Yeah, always.

Kendra Adachi Yeah, I had children, yes, but it was children.

Brie Tucker We all think, we all think I are not, not we, yeah, I do. We have an episode where we talk about that, how like we’re all, we all think we got it down, right? And I even, worked in early childhood, zero to three home visitation. So I thought, I was like, I know the importance of schedules and routines. I’ve got this down. I can do it. Kids are like, yeah, yeah, hold my baby bottle. Here we go.

JoAnn Yeah, that’s what happened. So what happened for you Kendra when the kids came along?

Kendra Adachi That’s right. That’s right. That’s right. Yeah, I had. Yeah.

So I had my I had my son my first son when I was 27. So we waited a little while my husband’s seven years older than I am. Yeah. So I really I actually think I thought that I would be even better at it because I wasn’t a mom as early like there was something about it that’s like I’m I’m like so much more grown now and then I had my kid and Sam is a delight and it’s funny how I went you know I look back at videos of my kids when they were babies and even

JoAnn My first kid was 27 too. Yeah.

Kendra Adachi Even though they can’t really say anything or they’re just like mum, it’s like that’s who you are now. Like it’s wild how they just are who they are. And Sam was, and it currently is, like so energetic, so passionate, incredibly verbal. And he never slept. He never slept. And I was, my gosh, I just, I was like, I didn’t think I, yeah.

JoAnn -huh. Those boys with the sleep. My son killed me too.

Brie Tucker It took three years until we got to sleep through the night in our house.

JoAnn Mm

Kendra Adachi 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. was, he, we got to, it was 18 months and he had not, this is not hyperbole. Other than like less than five times, the child did not sleep for longer than 15 minutes at a time. Like he would, it was awful. It was awful. I hired a sleep specialist. I cried so much. It was just so deeply traumatic. And if you, and he, that started, he started to sleep longer around 18 months and.

Brie Tucker Yeah!

Kendra Adachi Six months later, I had my second kid. So I was pregnant too during that because I had two.

Brie Tucker Were you like, okay, I have to ask, did that traumatize you about having a second kid?

Kendra Adachi It did a little, it did a little, because I thought, man. But I grew up, I have siblings, my husband has siblings, and we went through a number of conversations for a while. It was not a given that we were gonna have kids at all. We really enjoyed being the two of us and had to kind of be like, this doesn’t have to be our choice. Like if we’re able to get pregnant.

Brie Tucker Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kendra Adachi that’s wonderful, but also like, do we even want to try? And so when we decided to try, that was one of the things that was, we really were hoping that we would have more than one kid, because we found a lot of value for our own lives and having siblings. So I was almost like, and it took us, it took us almost two years to get pregnant with Sam. So.

we started trying to get pregnant as early as possible thinking it would take a long time. And I got pregnant the first time we tried with Ben and I’m like, well, that that did not work out the way that I intended it to work out. yeah. my gosh. I had the I had the whole thing planned out. I did. And then my my daughter who you know, one day I will explain this to shoot. She was super duper an accident. Like

Did the universe not see my checklist and my timeline? I had a timeline.

JoAnn No. Yeah.

Kendra Adachi My husband was scheduled, I’m not even kidding, my husband was scheduled to have a vasectomy. Like it was on the calendar for him to have a vasectomy. And I got pregnant and I was like, this, what is happening? So every kid, and that’s all we have. So every kid kind of taught me like this huge, huge lesson. Sam being my first kid, it makes sense. I thought,

JoAnn Hmm

Kendra Adachi This is kind of where the name, in many ways, the name of Lacey Genis came from, is when I had Sam, I’m like, I’m gonna be the best mother that’s ever existed. I have to, like, I’m gonna be perfect at this, and he is gonna be a perfectly compliant child, and he had, like, sensory issues, he wouldn’t breastfeed, he clearly wouldn’t sleep, they were all, I was like, I suck at this, like, I am so bad at this, but I gotta keep it together.

JoAnn  Mmm. All the things.

Kendra Adachi  And then I had been, and I had tried so hard to be what I thought I was supposed to be with Sam, that when I had been, I swung the other direction. And I was like, well, screw it. I don’t care about any of it. I’m just not, I’m not gonna be, I’m not gonna care. With Sam, I cared about everything. With Ben, I cared about nothing. And both of those were unfulfilling. Both of those were unsustainable and also unfulfilling. And that’s also when I started therapy. And so I kind of went through this process over

JoAnn  Mm

Kendra Adachi  those years of tiny, parenting where I realized how desperately I wanted to care because there were a lot of things I love about what I can bring to the world and the kind of mom and parent and friend and sister and daughter that I want to be. And choosing to care and to put effort into those things doesn’t make me a try hard. It doesn’t mean that I’m pretending like I’m better than you or that I have it all together.

I just started to see, and I was writing on the internet at the time, and so I was interacting with a lot of different people, moms in particular. I started to see this conflation of if your life is together, you’re pretending. And if your life is a mess, you are more real. And neither of those is true.

JoAnn

I do see this as well that like if your life like you see like all of these Instagram influencers and they have like the messy house and the messy hair and like people are like, my gosh, you’re so vulnerable. You’re so real. And it’s almost like having your life together is a like anomaly. And it’s like you have that one. I could see how it works both ways. Like you just saying that made me realize it.

Kendra Adachi  Yeah.Yeah.

JoAnn   Something that I want to talk to you about Kendra that you talk about in your book is about all of these productivity tips and gurus and actually like the whole term that you introduced me to the industry productivity industrial complex. And I want to get into it with you right after this. Okay, coming back in. So I.

Kendra Adachi Yeah.

JoAnn was reading your book on the plane. And I have to say like, the way I read books is I have the book in front of me and then I have my notes app open on my phone so that like every time I find something I want to remember, I’m like speaking into my notes app right here. And I was pausing so many times to like speak into my notes app during your book because the big thing that jumped out that hooked me right away is you said the current productivity advice doesn’t work for women.

It’s written by men for men, for men by men. And my gosh, at that point, like all of my like insecurities just like were released almost because here in the entrepreneurial world, I mean, there is so much productivity advice that is such BS.

Brie Tucker YESSSS

Kendra Adachi Yeah. Yeah.

JoAnn I mean, you mentioned some of it. What have you heard? Like the four hour work week where you’re supposed to work four hours and make like bazillion dollars. I mean, what else have you seen out there that does not work for women in terms of this advice?

Kendra Adachi Yeah, I think a couple of the things that are sort of pervasive in this productivity industrial complex, which essentially is that our culture has become so interwoven. The productivity industry has become so entangled with our culture, the industry. if you, in order for the industry to continue to make money,

Productivity has to be part of the cultural zeitgeist and doggone it if it is not. Like it is to the tune of billions of dollars. Like we just, that’s all we’re sort of doing is like, how can we master this and optimize this and make this thing better? And in many ways it’s the American dream. It is the potential. It’s like, what is your potential hustle for this thing? And hear me, hear me everyone listening. There is nothing wrong with any of the words I just said.

JoAnn Mm.

Kendra Adachi  Mastery, greatness, optimization, potential, none of those words are bad. But if you make that your goal, when it is not actually your goal, you will always be behind, you will always feel tired, you will always feel like you’re not doing enough, you’re not being enough for people. Like there is a constant deficit if that is your goal. And that is a goal that is much more accessible to the men in America than to the women in America.

JoAnn It is. There are so many times, honestly, where as an entrepreneur, I’ve been really, really hard on myself for not being productive enough. Like if I have not made like my scheduled time blocks, or if I have no interest that day in my scheduled time blocks, I’m like, well, this is why I’m not making like millions and employing so many is because I just can’t fit to it. I don’t have the willpower. I don’t have the time management strategies. Yeah. Yeah.

Brie Tucker Yes!

Kendra Adachi Yeah. It’s your fault. Yeah, it’s your fault. Right, right.

Brie Tucker can say like one of the biggest fallacies out there is that if I just find the right organizational system, I can do it all.

Kendra Adachi That’s right. That’s right. That’s the, listen, that’s the productivity industrial complex is it tricks you to think that you are one course, one book, one plan or one whatever away from it working, which guess what that means? We keep spending money. We keep spending time. We keep investing in all of these things. It keeps the industry going. And let’s look at, mean, if you think about all of the time management books and productivity books and all the resources that you have.

JoAnn Mm

Brie Tucker  Yep.

Kendra Adachi  probably consumed in your lifetime and you’re still struggling so much, okay? There is clearly a deeper problem than it being, yeah, you just aren’t disciplined enough. Sorry, Joanne. Like that’s, the problem is not you. Yeah.

JoAnn  There is such a deeper problem. No, and so many moms feel this way too. Like I do one -on -one coaching with moms and many come to me and they’re like, you know what? My routine is gone to hell. Like I can’t keep it together anymore. I’m directionless and they’re all blaming themselves for this. And so I want to break it down with you. Like first thing is how are these productivity systems made for men?

Kendra Adachi  Mm -hmm.

JoAnn  but they don’t necessarily work for women.

Kendra Adachi  Yeah. Well, one of the biggest things that is missing from the 93 % of time management books that are written by men, because it is 93%, that’s really high. That’s really, really, really high. Is that men, there are three significant things that men who are authors do not have as part of their life that deeply, deeply affect one’s time.

JoAnn I know, that was amazing, that statistic.

Kendra Adachi  The first one is men who write books probably do not have bosses. That’s the first thing. If you’re an author, you almost certainly do not have a boss. So you can control your own schedule. You can decide when you’re gonna check your email, when you’re gonna stop, you’re gonna take a day off. And I say that as someone who, am on my own boss. I don’t work on Fridays. I have the privilege and luxury of being able to make that choice because I do not have a boss. Most people have a boss. So you have to, and that’s the smallest one of the three. So they don’t have bosses.

JoAnn Mm, yeah. Yeah, that’s it.

Kendra Adachi The second one, the second one is men traditionally are not carrying the mental load of the home. They are not holding together the invisible ecosystem of what is happening. You could have the most, there was, saw a comedian, I wish I could remember who it was, that there was a comedian and he said, he was like, you know what, on my best day as a dad, my absolute best day, I’m still a pretty shitty mom. And I was like, that sounds about right. That sounds about right.

JoAnn No they’re not. That is right, yeah.

Kendra Adachi And so I think that there is a, we forget that even if you have a relationship, if you have a partner, we want to talk about single parenting, but if you have a partner who is, like really holds a pretty equal load with you, you’re still probably noticing all the things. You are holding together like the times that the kids have to do this and the forms and the.

Like you’re the CEO, moms are generally the CEO of their home, men are not. And that highly, highly, highly affects your time. And then the third one is dudes don’t have periods. They don’t have hormones that change all the time and they don’t have those. So if you do not have a boss, if you do not carry the mental load of the invisible ecosystem of your entire family and home and you don’t have a period.

JoAnn No. Yeah.They don’t.

Kendra Adachi Of course you can check your email only at three. Of course you can go workout after work. Of course you can have hobbies and relationships and like all of you can work four hours a week and you can make all this money because you don’t have these huge things that women have. You don’t have those things. Makes me crazy if you can’t tell.

JoAnn Of course.

Brie Tucker See? Unless you have the confidence to be able to judge people who can’t get their crap together.

JoAnnYeah, that’s always what happens, isn’t it?

Kendra AdachiYeah.

Brie Tucker Because, right, because there’s also that piece, I think, as women, we are also taught that it is somewhat our job to help, like you said, talking about the ecosystem within your home, it’s also our job to kind of help hold everybody’s emotional status together. So we don’t ever have the ability, or not that we don’t ever have the ability, because Joanne definitely correct me on this one, but I think that…

Kendra Adachi Yeah, that’s right. Yeah.

Brie Tucker It is much harder for us to say, well, that’s your problem. If you just write.

Kendra Adachi Yeah, it’s very challenging. Yeah, it’s very challenging.

JoAnn It is a lot harder to say that because also like, as you mentioned in your book, Kendra, we’ve been taught not to trust ourselves as women. Like when Brie said this thing, like, I’m sorry, that’s your problem.

Kendra Adachi Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Brie Tucker question at all.

JoAnn I mean, automatically, anytime I think about saying that, I’m like, but wait, if I had done this, this and this beforehand, that this wouldn’t even have happened. So it is my problem. And I’m so sorry, I failed you completely as a mother. But I mean, that’s the thought process that happens. It’s unbelievable. It’s unbelievable. noticing first that this productivity system is created for men by men and that we, course, need

Kendra Adachi Hmm.Mm -hmm. Right, sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

JoAnn different rules. I want to know now, well, what’s the solution? And we’re going to get into that right after this.

So we were talking before Kendra about how, you know, we as women, we haven’t been taught to trust ourselves. We haven’t been taught to really advocate for our own needs. And you have a system that you talk about in your book that helps you kind of make those priorities and everything. Can you tell us what plan the acronym you use stands for?

Kendra Adachi Yeah, I can. And I think it’s important before I explain the acronym to name that men are not the enemy here. They are swimming in the same waters we are. They have been taught, they have been sold short just like we have. And there are a lot of people, not just women, women do need different tools because we have different challenges. We have more to hold. But the…

I think it’s just really important for it to not become like a resentful us versus them feeling in our bodies as we’re moving this way because really the goal here, the thing that informs the plan acronym is a different goal.

JoAnn Mm -hmm.

Kendra Adachi And you can choose the goal of greatness and mastery and optimization. If that is the goal that resonates with you, you are allowed to choose that. If you’re an Olympian, you’re gonna choose that. If you’re a surgeon, you’re gonna choose that. Like there’s nothing wrong with that goal. That though is the, that sort of sold as like the mainline goal that’s supposed to be for most of us when really that’s the exception. I think greatness is the exceptional goal. The normal goal here that applies

JoAnn Mmm.

Kendra Adachi especially to women, but also to men, is integration. It is being who you are, where you are. It is being connected to yourself and to your life, and you are able to withstand whatever the circumstances are. That you are not at the whim of the circumstances in your life. That also releases you from the pressure to manufacture, manipulate, and control the circumstances of your life.

If the way that we live is disconnected in a very healthy way from what the circumstances are doing to us, it works both ways. They don’t knock us down, but they also were like, hey, we don’t have to worry about that so much. And that’s relevant to both men and women.

JoAnn Yes.Mm

Brie Tucker Hmm.

JoAnn feel like that releases a lot of stress. That releases a lot of stress from women as well because I often feel like I need to control situations more so than I should. Like even when we were in the car last night, we were driving to a concert and my husband was driving and I wanted to tell him, go in this lane over here. you’re gonna miss that up there. If you don’t like switch over, it’s gonna like all of those things and able to control a situation that I was not in charge of. I,

Kendra Adachi Yeah.

Brie Tucker It’s hard to switch it off, right?

JoAnn have to actually intentionally shut my mouth when I do that.

Kendra Adachi It is hard to switch it off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Brie Tucker But do you find like Joanne that it’s really hard to shut that train of thought off? is that what, do you try to shut off that train of thought or do you just try to shut your mouth and just be like, I’ll just let the thoughts go.

JoAnn I shut my mouth because I’m like, I mean, I’m huge in self compassion. So I’m like, listen, what I’m doing right now, I am in pain, I am hurting, things are not going the way that I want them to go. I’m gonna give myself comfort right now in this scenario. But yeah, I don’t think you could shut off the line of thinking. But in terms of like, yeah.

Brie Tucker Right? Yeah. Well, it’s hard, it’s hard. That’s why I was asking. Cause I mean, I think that some of us think that we just need to, it comes along that same line that we think that we just need to stop thinking that way. Well, if I would just stop worrying about everything or like my little saying that we have here at No Guilt Mom for me is if I would just stop worrying about step 20 and just worry about step one, I’d be okay. But.

Kendra AdachiHmm.

JoAnn Mm

Kendra Adachi Right.Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Brie Tucker That is a lot harder. Like everything that you talk about in your book, it’s so hard to rip through the years of being told that we’re responsible for everything. We must hold everything. So.

JoAnn Yeah.

Kendra Adachi Right. Well, and it’s such a nuanced thing that changes. is the reason why these things need to be spoken about for women specifically in a better way. Because there are days where, like, my logistical brain…

is such a benefit to my family. Like I’m so glad I have it because it means that we’re able to kind of thrive and roll and we’re just doing our thing. And so it’s not so much that it’s like, I don’t want us to, you know, kind of like demonize our ability to hold things together. Like that’s a really beautiful thing that you offer yourself and your family. But depending on your energy that day, you might have a lot less access.

JoAnn Mm

Kendra Adachi to that on a specific day. And so that’s why it’s this, there’s a separation of it doesn’t make you good or bad. It doesn’t make the day the best day ever. Or, you know, like we’re, we’ve mastered this and it’s the most optimized and we’ve done great. Check that box. It’s, there is a, there’s a humanist to it. There’s a humanity to us just being like, who am I today? What do I have available within me today that I can offer? What do I need to say no to? What should we let go for tomorrow? And you might not even have the energy. to even ask those questions. It could just be like, we’re just going to deal with whatever comes in front of our attention next, because I don’t have the energy to do anything else. Last night at the dinner table, everyone was asking me questions at the same time. Husband, my mother, and my three children, all of them. And I just was like, hey, you guys, my brain’s done. So you either need to talk to me one at a time, or can we save this for another time, where I can actually hear what you’re saying? Because I can’t. I can’t. I’m done.

And then we’re like, sorry, mom, sorry. And so just to honor who you are today, honor what you have available to you today. And if that is a high level of optimization and availability and logistical details and you’re like rocking and rolling, that does, that day, you are not a better mom that day than the day that you have to take a nap because you’re too tired or you’re cramping or you’re… 

You got hit with a wave of grief that you did not anticipate and you just don’t know how to get going today. Like, be kind either way. Both count. Both count. I still haven’t told you what the acronym is. I’m sorry.

JoAnn Yeah.

Brie Tucker Yeah.

JoAnn It’s okay, we’re gonna get to it. We’re gonna get to it because that brings to mind like this whole like thing of honoring your body, honoring where you are and resting. It is like such, I realized a source of guilt for me. Reading through your book, you described a scenario about how choosing sleep before togetherness, like you’re working all day. Like, do you prioritize getting sleep? or do you prioritize being together with your family? And I have to say, like, I’ve been in this scenario before where my family wanted to be in a game night and, they wanted to just, like, play a board game together. And I’m like, okay, I could do it for one game and then I can’t do it for any other games because I really need my sleep. When I stopped playing that game and I was like,

Brie Tucker So much good, yeah.

JoAnn can like I need to go to bed now my husband turned to me he’s like don’t you want to play with us don’t you want to be together with us I gave him hell for that afterwards like not there in that moment but I’m like I need to go to bed and then he’s like are you okay like coming in I’m like you just guilt tripped me right there do you notice that you did that and he did apologize for everything and saying it but there’s a lot of guilt associated

Kendra Adachi Yeah.Yeah.

JoAnn If you’re not aware of what you are thinking in your head and what is acceptable from other people, like that could take you down such a guilty road of like self -shaming and it’s so hard Kendra, so hard, but so needed too.

Brie Tucker Yep.

Kendra Adachi Yeah.

It’s, this is a great, this is a great segue into the, plan pyramid, which is the actual framework because the base of this pyramid, yes, the tetrahedron I know, but again, the plan tetrahedron does not roll off the tongue. Plan pyramid does a little bit where,

JoAnn Yes, the tetrahedron as you say. It does not roll off the tongue.

Kendra Adachi But the bottom, the base of it, the foundation of everything is what matters to you in this season that you are in. And when you are in a season, to reference that example that you said in the book, it’s like when there’s a lot of travel, which I’m about to enter into, like a month of, it’s 21 evenings that I’m not there to like put my daughter to bed. Not all of them are overnight, but over half of them are over like 32 days to 21 of those evenings. I’m essentially working or not home.

JoAnn Mm -hmm.

Brie Tucker Ugh. Ohhh! That’s a lot.

Kendra Adachi And it is a lot, it is a lot. And so that’s a season of life that I and my family will be in. And so what I will do and what I’ve already started doing in planting these seeds is naming to them, okay, so guys, what matters to me is that I do have to rest. Like I can’t stay up super late and watch the Marvel movie even though I wanna be with you. What this means is we have to prioritize our together time earlier in the day.

because mama’s got to go to sleep. And so naming those things out loud, like as a family, as a unit, and it’s not always oriented toward the mom either. Like everybody has different seasons of life. And so kind of making it part of your conversation of like, what matters for us right now in the season that we’re in as a family, let’s talk about it. So that’s the foundation of the pyramid. Then the three sides of the pyramid that lean into each other.

Brie Tucker Good point.

JoAnn I love that.

Kendra Adachi and make a point, right, are three letters of plan. Prepare, adjust, and notice. And then the point of the pyramid is live, L for live. It is the point, fizz, tangibly of the pyramid and also theoretically the point of all is that we’re living. And what is really important to notice about this pyramid, about these three sides of prepare, adjust, and notice is that the system, the productivity system that we have grown up in, it, really, really highlights preparation big time. That’s pretty much all it teaches us to do, is to prepare. And if, yeah, it is, that’s all it is. That’s all it is. It’s all preparation. And so in many ways, if you’re good at preparing, you know, if you have a natural bent to lists and checklists and logistics, then that can be really empowering.

JoAnn Yeah. Yeah. I was about to say that actually. It’s like one straight arrow. Prepare. Live. That’s what it is. Yeah.

Kendra Adachi But then you’re also like, but I am exhausted and I feel like I’m building this machine that’s not always working and I’m having to maintain the machine and the systems and maybe it’s wrong. And then you get your big black trash bag energy where you’re like, none of this is working. And you just start dumping things in a big black trash bag and taking it out of your house physically and metaphorically. It’s like, it’s all or nothing. Yeah, probably have, I know. It’s so relatable. It’s so relatable, but it’s all or nothing. If preparation is your only thing,

Brie Tucker been in my house? Have you been in my home?

JoAnn Yeah, probably.

Kendra Adachi It’s all or nothing. And for people who are not naturally inclined to prepare, if you are neurodivergent, if you do not have like a normative way of sort of working out your stuff, there are no resources for you. if there are, they’re very hard to find, but they’re all still focused on preparation. So that’s why, that’s why the equal balance preparation still gets a part of it. Cause you still need to prepare.

but in equal parts, you also notice what’s going on in your body, in your family, in your emotions, in your schedule. Is this system working because of this thing? Like, let’s notice, let’s pay attention to where we are and what is happening. And then you also adjust and you adjust in small ways. Adjustment is by nature small. You don’t make really big adjustments. A lot of times that’s like dismantling.

Brie Tucker Yeah. Yeah.

Kendra Adachi  and rebuilding. So that’s why by you adjust by starting small, you notice with kindness, you notice by being kind to yourself and where you are and you prepare by going in the right order, which is often you got to name what matters. You got to name what matters in your life. Because if you prepare with this big set it and forget it, I’m building this big machine idea that the productivity industry feeds us, especially if your goal is greatness.

then you’re always going to feel behind. So this framework, this pyramid to me, is just very holistic and compassionate and realistic. It’s realistic to go, yeah, I want to get just as skilled. I want to develop my skills of adjusting and being able to pivot just as much as I plan. I want to have eyes that are open to where I am now just as much as I have the ability to look into the future.

Let’s cultivate those skills equally. And it really creates a system, but really more a way of life that supports the kind of life that I think most of us want to live.

JoAnn  Absolutely. I agree with you 100%. I feel like, actually, like my skills are about noticing and adjusting more so than preparing like that is the preparation has actually been something that I’ve had to work on a lot to get that in order. But it’s this integrated way of living that I love how you describe it because there goes the stress there goes the self shame.

There goes everything else. you’re trying to instead have a really contented life that doesn’t exactly feed into buying the next system, this is a great way to look at it. With that, Kendra, what are you looking forward to? It’s coming up for you.

Kendra Adachi  Well, I know I am very much looking forward to it. So my book, my book, Plan, released on October 8th, which is so very exciting. And so I’m about to kind of go into this. Well, it’s the 21 days that I said of not being home, but I really am so excited to meet people in person and talk about this more and more.

But honestly, I think the thing that I’m the most excited about, because the book hasn’t been out for very long, is for people to actually read it. I really cannot wait for people to start reading it. Because it’s one thing to support me and like, that sounds like a good book, let’s get it. But to read it, because that means it’s going to impact your life. So I’m looking forward to a little bit down the road as people start to actually read and feel kind of that release and that deep breath and that freedom. But also, they’re given the skills to

JoAnn  Mm -hmm.

Kendra Adachi  They’re practical things. It’s not just like one big pep talk that’s like, you got it, girl, and then leaves you with no tools. Like, there’s tools there too. So I’m just, I am so excited for this wave. I don’t know how big the wave is gonna be, but I am so excited for this wave of women to finally be like, feet on the ground, baby. This is who I am. This is the life that I love. And I feel like if we have a world full of women who feel that way about their lives, watch out.

JoAnn  It’s, it’ll change. know.

Kendra Adachi It’s a beautiful, beautiful thing.

JoAnn  That is my dream as well, women to step into that confidence because we are a powerful force when we stop shaming ourselves. Like we can use all the energy to move forward. Unbelievable. Well, Kendra, it has been wonderful talking to you. Go and get Kendra’s book, The Plan, which is out now. And we’ll talk to you later.

Kendra Adachi  That’s right, man. That’s right. That’s right. Thanks for having me guys.

Brie Tucker So when I was reading the plan, in the very, it wasn’t even in chapter one yet. It was still in the foreword. She had this line that made me like drop everything and go, my God, she’s so correctly articulated something that I feel in my bones. So I’m just gonna read it really quick. So she says, in general, a man’s life is oriented around him and a woman’s life is oriented around everything but her. All while,

our bodies rhythms are annoyingly inconvenient. And I just feel like that was like such an eye opening moment of like talking about, and we talk about that a lot in the interview, how organization, the way it is like mainstreamed, it is based around a man’s life that is able to drop everything else and just focus on them and the tasks at hand. And women in general.

JoAnn Mm -hmm.

Brie Tucker And we’re not saying this is true for everybody, but in general, women are expected to focus on the things that we need to get done, all while also taking care of everybody else around us. it is so unfair. And that’s why, like, you know, I think that we keep, we have that lie in our head that if I just find the right organizational system, I’ll be able to get my shiz done. And it’s not that, it’s not that.

JoAnn It’s true. It’s not that. And it’s why I like leaving my home so much because like when I go on trips and everything, like it’s not just that like it’s expected of outside people because by outside people, like I don’t think that my husband expects me to take care of him nor do my kids like some of it. They expect me to drop everything, but I think I expect that of myself. And so when I leave,

Brie Tucker Right? It. Yeah.

JoAnn And when I’m out of that environment, I don’t have those expectations on myself anymore. And I’m a whole lot more relaxed. And it’s sad to think that way. Like I feel guilty even thinking that way, being like, why can’t I get it together enough that I don’t have those expectations and I can relax around my family? But it doesn’t work that way.

Brie Tucker So like there are seasons in life. And I think that was another great thing that Kendra brought up. Like her family’s getting ready to go into a season where she’s gonna be traveling a lot. And so she was having that conversation with her family and her kids because she has an array of ages at home with her three kiddos. But I think that we all have seasons. There’s, mean, like when your kid’s really little, that season is they need a parent. And we’re here to tell you, mom, it doesn’t have to be you 24 seven.

It really doesn’t. Like the sooner you start like helping people, possibly your parenting partner, but whomever else realize that they are capable, that it doesn’t have to be you, the easier it’ll be as they get older. that’s it. But you know, again, it’s still tough. It’s still tough at all different ages. It’s still tough at all different ages. And like right now we were talking to you before we started recording about how being the chauffeur, right?

Like how that is a busy stage too, where you’re like taking everybody to practices and here and there. And I was feeling that one hard and was so happy when both of my kids finally got a license and I was no longer the chauffeur. I was very happy to pass that off to them. Like you guys, I think you get, right? Like I think you get angrier when it’s close to being done. What do you think?

JoAnn yeah, I get mad about shivering. I get mad right now about shivering because…Well, it means that like I am expected to drop everything and that’s been a boundary that I’ve been putting in place a lot more often. Like my daughter’s like, can you do 430 today? I’m like, no, I can’t. I can’t do it. And she’s like, and so she thought a little bit. And then this morning she’s like, can you do four? I’m like, I can do four. Thank you. Thank you for taking me into account as well. But she’s also relying on friends and everything too, to take her places.

Brie Tucker Yeah!

JoAnn And it gets better. gets better. It’s a work in progress. You don’t know what you need to put in process. You don’t know what you need to put in place until it happens to you and you get upset with it. And that anger is actually just a signal that, something here needs to change.

Brie Tucker You know what? I wonder in our case, since our kids are a little bit older, if we could try some reverse psychology on them. Like saying to them like, well, you’re so dependent on me. And they’ll be like, what? No, I’m not. I could do something. Really? Really? Yeah. You can’t even like, you know, manage to get home from practice without me. I could call a friend. I could do that. okay. Let’s just see that happen.

JoAnn My daughter would turn that into, she would call me on my passive aggressiveness right away while not one. Because like.

Brie Tucker I know, I know, was like, I was like, from a psychological standpoint, though, that’s not the nicest thing to do.

JoAnn No, little passive aggressive in there. Yeah, that would say.

Brie Tucker Really? Free, passive, aggressive?

JoAnn Yeah, but it happens. happens because I mean also like passive aggressiveness is how we were taught to deal with our situations by our parents. I mean like I never saw my mom deal with anything head on. It was always in a series of like, my gosh, I have to do this now or like just being so tired and wishing that people would help out more and stuff like that. It was never a hey, this is what I need. Please do it. And so but that’s what she was taught too and before her it’s not her fault.

Brie Tucker slamming things around. Right?

JoAnn It’s just now going into like this new way, like hoping to teach our kids that, you can actually go and ask for what you want. I was having a discussion yesterday with my daughter where she is not wanting to do something in one of the clubs she’s in. She’s like, I did not sign up for this. I did not agree to this. Like to do this thing, and this is all the information I can give to do this thing would cause her what she is tuned to public humiliation and losing all of her friends is how she sees it.

Brie Tucker Okay.

JoAnn And everybody in this club was basically yelling at her and these two other girls who were standing their ground about doing this thing. And she’s, and at first I brush her off because that’s my next, yeah, I feel like she’s being dramatic. And luckily my daughter like challenges me in so many ways. She’s like, mom, you are not listening to anything I am saying right now. You are so quick to dismiss me. I’m like, okay, I’m listening. I’m listening.

Brie Tuckerbecause you feel like she’s being melodramatic a little.

JoAnnAnd as she talked, I realized how much anxiety this was causing her. And the fact that nobody was listening to her was causing her even more anxiety. And she explained the situation. She’s like, I do not mean to be difficult. I really don’t think like they even like…

Brie Tucker Yeah.

JoAnn are aware of where I am coming from. They are so like set on their ways in this situation that they are not considering like my viewpoint whatsoever. And I’m like, you know, you’re absolutely right on that one. I could see exactly why you are doing like what you’re doing. And she said, and I’m tired of them yelling at me for it. Like, I just don’t want to be shamed about it anymore. And that’s when I turned her and I’m like, you know what?

Brie Tucker Good point. Yeah.

Yeah.

JoAnn Your only responsibility is to name your boundary and hold it. That’s all you can do. What other people are doing, what they’re yelling, that’s bad on them. That’s on them. You can’t control it. You can’t do anything about it. And she’s like, yeah, yeah, it is.

Brie TuckerYeah. You know what kills me is knowing your daughter so well. She is always the first to like, yeah, let’s try it. Like she, she like you has this very peppy, just energy about her. she’s all, and she’s honestly like, knowing her personality, if she was holding up a boundary, I’d be like, whoa.

JoAnn Mm

Brie Tucker So that’s crazy.

JoAnn Because she knows it’s she does it. People are going to post it on their Instagram and Snapchat and making fun of her. And she does not want that out in the world for this thing that she doesn’t want to put herself out there for that one. And my inclination at first to be like, don’t care what other people think. But I’m like, hold up. This is causing her a ton of anxiety, a ton of anxiety.

Brie TuckerBut if she, exactly, exactly. And that’s really good to be introspective about that side of it. Like if it is then, and it’s not like that girl’s only in one club either. She’s in a lot of stuff.

JoAnnAnd there’s baby steps.

Yeah, because the whole argument against it is they’re like, yeah, well, you’re in this to push your comfort zone. And I’m like, hold up. So when you talk about comfort zones, you have to take little baby steps. And what this sounds like is this is way too big of a step for you right now for your comfort zone. And that’s valid. And I want you to stand up for that. I don’t ever want you to feel like you have to do something for someone else to make them happy. Forget that. Yeah.

Brie Tucker Yeah. Yeah.

Like that’s where you start to get into those slippery situations where you find yourself looking around going How did I get here and how the hell am I gonna get out of it because I am just not feeling okay? So I love that. I love that go girl. You go girl you go girl Man, okay. Well all the more reason so like if you guys Felt any inspiration in this episode, which if you didn’t

JoAnn Yeah, exactly. Yep. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Brie Tucker not quite sure how that didn’t happen, but you have to go and get this book, The Plan. It is amazing. We have a link in our show notes for it. It is a phenomenal book. will absolutely love it. You’ll find so much support and help in it. It is great. I loved it. Kendra is so fun.

JoAnn She is. And remember, the best mom is a happy mom. Take care of you. I’ll talk to you later.

Brie Tucker Thanks for stopping by.