Hate Traveling with Your Kids? Here’s How to Survive Holiday Travel this Year Transcript

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

JoAnn Crohn: Welcome to the no guilt mom podcast. I’m your host, JoAnn Crohn joined here by the lovely Brie Tucker.

Brie Tucker: Why? Hello. Hello, everybody. How are you?

JoAnn Crohn: So we get to talk about something relatively interesting, especially for the winter time, , prepare you for all those vacations coming up, but it’s vacationing with kids. So.

Brie Tucker: an extra like challenge level to your vacationing with kids.

JoAnn Crohn: I did. I took them on my own. I was the only adult there vacationing with my kids.

Brie Tucker: Yeah, that’s like new challenge unlocked. New fear unlocked.

JoAnn Crohn: New fear. Why? What, like, what do you see? I didn’t go into it with any fear. So I’m really interested.

Brie Tucker: Well, okay. First of all, you travel a lot with your kids. So, um, I do not because I do not enjoy traveling with my kids. They, complain a lot. and I just, I really struggle. So the idea of having to handle all of that conflict by myself with nobody to tap out to is. Far from a vacation in my head

JoAnn Crohn: Okay. So I hear you on the complain a lot. And I have to say that my kids have complained a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot. And going into this vacation, like I’ve already been setting boundaries with them about the complaining. , but I don’t want to tell you right now, Brie, because we’re going to go into it in the episode. Like I could really get into the whole story.

Brie Tucker: So basically if JoAnn telling you that she went on a trip with just her kids And that she can tell you how to not make it new fear unlocked new challenge unlocked Then you want to catch this episode because it’s going to be

JoAnn Crohn: totally want to, you want to catch this episode. so without further ado, let’s get on with the show.

So it’s so funny that you say new fear unlocked because with traveling, I get you, I hear the complaining and that’s been actually a very recent complaint, a frequent complaint of me and my husband traveling with our kids and going anywhere with them.

Just the complaining, especially going places like say me and my daughter go and get our nails done. And she’s in a bad mood the entire time and complaining like that’s not a fun experience at all.

Brie Tucker: no, it sucks all the enjoyment out of the activity and I’m not, I’m not saying it in a way of like blaming our kids. I just want to be clear about that. I still love doing stuff with my kids, but does it not frustrate the heck out of you guys out there and podcast land when you, you have something planned? and it seems like it’s going to be fun. It’s something that like everybody. wants to do on some level, and then just in comes the barrage of whining, complaining, this isn’t what I meant, and you’re just like, whatever.

JoAnn Crohn: Yes. It happens. It happens. And I’ve noticed it happening a lot with my kids. and so I looked at like, for example, the, the going to nails as like a little micro event of something that happens during vacation, and that I don’t like, so. I’ve been setting boundaries with my kids for probably the past six months to a year on that complaining aspect of things because there’s a lot in our daily life that they complain about that.

I do nice for them. And so I have a lot of opportunities to talk about this and to address it. And so. Going into this vacation, I’ve already had several conversations with both of them after like taking them to a jump park and having them just complain the entire time or taking my daughter to go get nails done, having her complain the whole time. There’s been several instances where after that, where I’ve calmed down, I’m like, Hey, it’s not fun for me to plan this fun activity and then hear all the complaints about it. And I just tell her that straight out and she’s like, well, or sometimes she puts up a fight and if she puts up the fight or he puts up a fight, I’m like, you know what? Let’s talk about this a little later.

Brie Tucker: what’s putting up a fight out of curiosity in that scenario?

JoAnn Crohn: Oh, well, I was hungry and I was just dealing like I was, we just need to get food and that’s why I was the way I was like, not saying any apologies, not any justification.

Brie Tucker: Yeah, not really owning up

JoAnn Crohn: Exactly. Not owning up to things. And they’re just teaching moments. They’re expected. So like if your kids are coming to you with these same exact attitudes, just expect them.

But it doesn’t mean like expecting them and, asking for something better is something very different. So I don’t say expect them and tolerate them. I just say like, don’t be surprised when they come up because they’re going to come up for many, many kids.

Brie Tucker: think that’s, oh, sorry, I know I keep jumping on this one. I think

JoAnn Crohn: No, please jump in.

Brie Tucker: I feel like that’s a really good point because I think a lot of us do. We walk in with expectations of how it should go and when it doesn’t go that way, we feel like there’s a fault or. Yeah, we feel like there’s a fault.

So when you say expect that this stuff is going to happen we’ve been told And i’m gonna blame it on my 90s upbringing from our sitcoms of the kids that were just so well behaved that just Did whatever their parents they were so grateful they get to go and do stuff and blah blah blah or at least or maybe It’s that rosy colored memory you have of like well when I was a kid I was happy when my parents just even let us go get mcdonald’s And here I am getting you a whole set of nails and you’re just complaining that the nail tech pulled on your finger too hard, you know but I think that’s a really good point because I think a lot of us expect that at some point It’s not going to happen anymore. They’re going to be eternally grateful. Always in a good mood and that’s just not realistic.

JoAnn Crohn: It’s not.

Brie Tucker: know i’m not that fuzzy all the time

JoAnn Crohn: No, no. And I go into these situations with a slightly different mindset. I’m like, okay, they are learning how to handle and regulate their emotions. They are learning to figure out when they’re actually at their limit. So they don’t go into the situations where they start complaining or they start blaming everybody else for their misfortunes.

Like it’s a learning process. And these complaints they have are really them struggling rather than them trying to make our lives miserable. So that helps keep me calm if I

Brie Tucker: good point. It’s a good point to remember because yeah, I mean, if, if you’re traveling or you’re doing anything and you’re having a crabby day, like I’m having a crabby day today, I am, I, I’m having a crabby day, I’m struggling cause like my head hurts. I’m tired. I’m think I might be coming down with the cold that my daughter so, so nicely brought into the home with her on when she, she came home on Friday. But yeah, like we we realize that about ourselves and yet sometimes we we forget that about our kids that they’re

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah,

Brie Tucker: struggling Maybe yeah

JoAnn Crohn: so when I went on this vacation, I already was going into it with that mindset. I knew that there was going to be complaining. I knew that I had to really make sure that I took time to rest and relax myself. And I’ve also been having these conversations with my kids consistently about, you know, taking care of themselves emotionally and where, Hey, like, okay.

I was really upset about the complaining and then my daughter would be like, well, I was hungry or I was tired or I was upset. And then we talk about it, be like, okay, so like you were hungry. That’s totally okay being hungry. And it’s totally okay being grumpy as well, and being angry. And that is fine.

I just want to let you know how I felt as well during that time. And that’s it. I mean, there were no consequences. There’s nothing like that. It was just open communication about feelings and complaining. on both sides. So, so we get in pretty late. Uh, we went to San Francisco and the reason we decided to do this is because my husband was traveling for work in Singapore and India.

And the last time he took this big of a vacation, I went to Disneyland, but I took my mom with me so that I would have another adult there. and then after that Disneyland trip, I’m like, okay, I think I can do this on my own. I think I can. So we booked the tickets, we left really late on Thursday night, I let them skip Friday of school, and then, we got to our hotel like at 1230 at night in San Francisco, went right to bed and then woke up the next morning and it didn’t go perfectly.

on their end. And I mean, it didn’t go perfectly on my end either, but I did change some very specific things about how I’ve handled myself on vacation in the past with them that I think was super helpful and made all the difference. So you’re ready for this Brie.

Brie Tucker: Yes.

JoAnn Crohn: Okay. So here’s something that I think that we do a lot on vacation is we try to make everybody happy on vacation in terms of decisions. This shows up for me in terms of like, where should we eat? Like do you ever ask that question? Okay, guys, we’re hungry. Where should we eat? And one person has one idea. Another person has another idea. And then the siblings will be like, well, that’s not fair. We went to his idea last

Brie Tucker: Dread that like, I, we can hardly ever find anywhere that everybody in our, our family will eat because everybody is so one only wants pizza. The other only wants cheeseburgers. I think I’ve heard you say this about your kids and mine and mine,

JoAnn Crohn: Pizza and cheeseburgers. Mm

Brie Tucker: flopped. My, daughter will only eat: cheeseburgers and my son will only want pizza

JoAnn Crohn: Yes.

Brie Tucker: Sounds

JoAnn Crohn: came upon this at breakfast time, our very first meal in San Francisco together, where my daughter’s like, well, I don’t usually eat breakfast, so I don’t care what we eat. And my son’s like, well, I just want pancakes. And so we go to Boudin. Yeah, sounds easy. Sounds easy, right? We go to Boudin Bakery. We’re staying in Fisherman’s Wharf. It’s like, like less than a five minute walk. He’s already mad because there’s an IHOP right next door. And I’m like, not IHOP, not IHOP in San Francisco. We can go to IHOP anywhere. Let’s go to like the place that makes the sourdough bread. Yes. And so we get in, they both look at the menu and they’re like, we can’t eat anything here. I’m like, what?

Brie Tucker: Why? What was, what did the menu look like?

JoAnn Crohn: because the waffles, Brie, were sourdough waffles, so my son could not eat sourdough waffles because he does not like sourdough. Mind the fact that it was waffles. And my daughter was just like, No, they don’t have anything. I like, like both of them were just in moods already.

And so I’m like, look, I know you need food. And I know that this is an issue for especially my son. Like he needs to eat. If he does not eat, he is unreasonable. So I’m like, let’s just go to the bakery case, find something you like there. Let me get some coffee and we’ll figure it out from there. So they both got their pastries. They’re here like eating it right there at the table. I’m drinking my coffee. Yeah. Be grudgingly eating their delicious pastries in San Francisco. So, yeah.

Brie Tucker: like, trying to act like they’re mad while they’re loving this delicious food. No. Joking.

JoAnn Crohn: And I mean, you could, you could hear, you could hear the irritation in my voice. I was irritated. I, this is not to say you’re never going to be irritated toward vacation. All I was irritated. I knew I was irritated and I’m like, I need to make sure that I handle myself. In the best way I can at this moment, which really means finding something that I want to eat at.

So I did like my little Google search. Like I do, I love finding restaurants and I found this really cute place that served Brazilian crepes. It was called, Cafe de Casa. Really awesome. And my daughter was in the agreeable mood and she’s like, yeah, that sounds great, mom. And my son’s like, there’s nothing I want there. And I’m like, well, why don’t we just go try it? You have something in your stomach. And he got up from the table and he stomped and he’s like, no, I am not fine. We’re just going to go. And I’ll just be unhappy. And I’m like, I usually I would go and I would ignore it, but I’m like, I’m going to blow I’m going to blow if this is the behavior that I see the entire trip.

And so instead I sat at the table, I’m like. No, I’m not going to go like that. And I just stood there. And it wasn’t me telling him what to do, but I was saying what I was going to do based on what I saw. And Um, that was like, I think the turning point for me in terms of trips, like I can’t control them. I can’t control them at all.

I can just say what I’m willing to accept and what I’m not willing to accept. And so I sat there, I didn’t react. He came back to the table and he kind of slumped there and we stayed there for five minutes and I’m like, okay, let’s go try this place out and we get up and we leave and here’s the difference.

I just reacted like it was completely normal after that I didn’t act mad. I didn’t like stop talking to him. I was like, Hey, bud, you know, and I, and I hugged him and I put my arms around him. I didn’t try to engage him in conversation because I knew that would be make him mad, but I didn’t show any signs that I was mad.

I just pretended like it was just a normal thing. Me setting that boundary, and then we moved on with our day. And we got to the plate, the Cafe de Casa. He found a Nutella crepe, and he got the Nutella crepe. And as we were sitting at the table, about 20 minutes later, he’s like, this is so good.

It’s so good. And it was normal for that. And it was fine. And then I was like, Oh my gosh, I could set a boundary and pretend nothing happened. And they’re going to be fine. They’re going to work through their emotions and be okay. 30 minutes later. And that was the big thing. That was huge.

So setting the boundary and then pretending nothing is wrong, made all the difference. And I’m going to tell you the third tip that I used right after this break. So first we talked about making decisions based on what will make you happy. And I did that with choosing the cafe de casa. And that’s just one decision that I made, but there were. Several times this happened during the trip. So for instance, Brie, have you heard of Cat Cafes?

Brie Tucker: No, but I did see this on your Instagram, I was rather curious. Tell me more.

JoAnn Crohn: Yes. So my son is known of cat cafes for a very long time. They’re very popular in Japan and they have actually several here in the us. And what they are is you basically go in, you pay a fee. You get like a drink, a coffee or something, and you just get to play with cats. There is just a room of cats. And, , a lot of them are up for adoption. So it’s the way they get adopted as well as, you know, the fee helps pay for their care and everything. So it’s just a good thing all around, especially if you love cats, which my son loves cats, as does my daughter.

Brie Tucker: my gosh. That would be so fun.

JoAnn Crohn: It was fun. There’s one here in Phoenix. We have to go. Cause I looked them up after we went. So my son, when we were like, okay, what should we do here in San Francisco? He’s like, I want to go to a cat cafe. Do they have cat cafes? And we looked it up and yes, they had cat cafes.

Brie Tucker: That’s so funny.

JoAnn Crohn: got in the Lyft. We went to this cat cafe. It was called the Kit T, T E A cafe.

Brie Tucker: Uh

JoAnn Crohn: You paid a fee. It was like, it was kind of expensive, but I’m like, okay, saving cats, saving cats. It was about 29 per person. And with that 29, you got a, like a canned beverage from their fridge, but they didn’t just have Coke and Sprite and everything. They had boba milk tea and like all of these

Brie Tucker: Oh, fun.

JoAnn Crohn: too. So it was fun. So we get there, we take off our shoes, we just have socks on, we get our, tea and we go in the room with all the cats. And it was delightful. Like, as soon as we sat down, a cat jumped up on my daughter’s lap and she’s like, Oh my gosh, look at this, how cute! He loves me. He loves me. And we’re petting, petting all the cats.

And like, we were there for an hour and just sitting on the floor. And this one cat, it’s a little gray cat. his name is Tinder and at first it was hiding in like this little tube. We were trying to get him out and then he came out and he was just so affectionate to all three of us and we loved him, especially my kids who were.

campaigning to adopt Tinder and bring him home, and they would not stop talking about Tinder. Like, we left the Cat Café, and the Cat Café actually had posters for Meowvie Night. So like movie night with cats the next night and they’re like, can we go to Meowvie night? Can we go to Meowvie night? And you know on vacation how your kids start asking you like over and over and over again, even when you say no, we can’t go to Meowvie night, but they keep going thinking you’ll break and it’ll drive you crazy.

Brie Tucker: oh, mine do that all the time, they do not wait for vacation for that. That is a, that is a year round sport in our household, but go

JoAnn Crohn: A year round sport. Yeah. So they were, they kept asking and I knew, I’m like, listen, it took 30 minutes in San Francisco traffic. One way to get to the kitty cafe. No, I’m not doing it again. And I was like, no, we’re, we’re not going to Miavi night to play with Tinder. No, we’re not adopting Tinder. And they would not accept the no until finally I’m like, Look, I do not want to be asked about Meowvie night anymore. It’s funny that I have to be stern when I say the word Meowvie night, but I do not want to be asked about Meowvie night anymore,

Brie Tucker: It’s hard to keep a straight face.

JoAnn Crohn: nor do I want being asked about Tinder. It is putting me in a bad mood. Please stop asking. And I was very. clear about what I wanted for that boundary. And, they stopped. My daughter actually tried asking again and all I had to do was look at her and she’s like, Hmm. Okay. And it was, I, it wasn’t about what they were doing.

Like if they asked, I’m just not going to respond to them. I’m not going to give them a response. So that is also important to put in and be like, I am not going to respond anymore. I’m not going to do it. So, it wasn’t something that they had to do. It was something that I did. I just didn’t respond. And that was great.

And then I pretended nothing was wrong after that. And they were over it again, half an hour I’m finding is the time limit that it takes them to get over things. So that was, It’s just a realization on my part.

Brie Tucker: that’s a huge thing right there. Like figuring out how long your kids need of space that helps you so much when you actually like, and it’s funny to say that cause it seems like it’s such a, well, yeah, of course I know how long it takes. Like, no, really in the moment.

When you’re frustrated Realizing, okay. I just got to like tough this out for 30 minutes. Give him his space and he’ll be better that’s that’s a big thing to remember there for sure.

JoAnn Crohn: And you don’t have to, to tell them like, cause there were certain times when my kids were. Upset that I I said, a boundary like that. And my initial inclination was to be like, we’re on vacation. Don’t be upset. Like you’re in San Francisco. Look around you be happy. that was what I wanted to do.

And I fought it so hard and I won and I didn’t say a thing. And they would come back to me about 30 minutes later. and so I know I promised the third tip at the end of the last break, but I feel like, I feel like y’all got a good story out there. So after this break, the third tip is coming for you and it’s a good one.

So the final tip and it was something that I really had to reconcile within myself was to not force myself into this quote unquote perfect vacation mode. So for instance, Usually on vacation, we’re like, we’re not going to eat at chain restaurants because we have all these wonderful food options. It’s San Francisco. Let’s not go there. And what do kids like to eat at restaurants.

Brie Tucker: Yeah, they want to go with what’s familiar. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: They want to go with what’s familiar. And so the first day I was there, I was really Hey. recognizing that I was fighting on them on this, like, this was a constant argument. It was IHOP versus, you know, Brazilian crepe cafe.

It was like fancy craft house, brewery connected to our hotel versus Applebee’s. And so realizing this, when we went to bed on Saturday night, I’m like, you know what, tomorrow we can wake up. We can go to IHOP and the biggest smile went over my son’s face. He’s like, Oh, he had never been to IHOP by the way

Brie Tucker: really? He’d never been to, well, so to him, that was his Brazilian crepe shop because that was brand new to him.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, that was brand new to him he’d never been to IHOP and so we went the next day to IHOP And I didn’t have to fight on one thing. I didn’t have to fight on food. It was their choice They liked it there. And honestly, after they, it was like, but like, like justice on my part after they finished eating, they’re like, you know, that wasn’t so good.

Brie Tucker: Yeah. And you’re like, I told you so, but you count, you held it in. You held in the, I told you so.

JoAnn Crohn: yeah, I’m like, okay. Okay. But like, I also let go on a lot of things. So like, I’m not a big touristy shop person. I don’t like stuff. You know that about me. I don’t like stuff. Well, we went to Pier 39, which is where the sea lions are, but it’s also a huge shopping pier with all of the San Francisco touristy stuff.

It was raining and it seemed like the easiest option. Go in the touristy shops, go for some shopping. And we did it, because my daughter loves shopping. and it was fun and they had fun with it. And I had fun with it, surprisingly. And then we did it again where we went to Madame Tussauds, which I was like, Oh, that’s a tourist trap.

Like I have all these ingrained things in me about like vacations, I guess. I just want to be unique and special. And I think I do this to myself, but we went to Madame Tussauds, which is all the wax figures of celebrities. It

Brie Tucker: Yeah, I’m like, you guys had fun. I saw that.

JoAnn Crohn: First of all, there was no one in there with us. Like, we were the only ones there. Because it was rainy day San Francisco, weekend before Thanksgiving. Like, tourism was down. Oh my gosh. We, posed with all the celebrities. We’re, like, making these great faces. , It was so fun. And then we went to Ghirardelli and I had an ice cream sundae at 4 p.

m. all to myself. Like all of these rules I set in place for myself. I was like, no, I’m just going to do what the kids would do. It was amazing. And it was great. And I think it, it just taught me the lesson that I tend to make stuff harder on myself than it needs to be.

Brie Tucker: Well, I think a lot of us do, right? Like we hold these standards up that we think either, either we hold them up because we think that we’re supposed to act like that or it worked one time. And so we’re like rating everything against that one time it worked.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah.

Brie Tucker: Yeah, that’s why I don’t move my cheese Brie.

So, you know, I have a tendency I have a hard time letting go of that one time standard of like no, no, no, it worked once it’s gonna work again

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. And it’s a hard thing to get past because also there is that, Oh my gosh, we’re only in this place for a short amount of time. We got to make the most of everything this place has to offer. We can’t go to In N Out. We can’t go to IHOP. Those are things we have at home and we shouldn’t go to things that we have at home.

So like that plays through my brain. And I think that really hurts me on vacations because it. makes it harder for the kids to enjoy it. Cause kids like familiarity, kids like routine and you break them too far out of their routine and they, they struggle, which is understandable.

Brie Tucker: Yeah, you know, it’s funny. I’m listening to the story and I’m like, all right. So like when I go on, I don’t travel as much as you, but when I do go on trips, it’s one of two trips. It’s either a trip with, with the kids and my husband, or it’s just me and my husband. And my husband is super chill.

Miguel, like anybody that’s ever met Miguel, he is like, The epitome of chill. And so when we go on trips, it is literally just, it’s like traveling with you and Shana. It’s like, we’re going to go here. Maybe you want to go now you want to go an hour. I’m hungry. Okay. Sounds good. Let’s just go. It’s very easy breezy. It’s chill. It’s so much fun, but I cannot be that same chill when I’ve got my kids for some reason, I run into that hole. I have to be mom and in control of everything and anticipate everybody’s needs and. No, we can’t go there. Why? Because Audrey might not like that food or we can’t go there. Why? Because Robert might not like the food there.

Like, I don’t, it’s just, you’re right. Like we have this perfect, we want it. And that’s where I guess I’m coming back to. Like, I have a good vacation with my husband and I want to, Try to recreate it, but I try to recreate it by like strangle holding it to this Little tiny expectation I have and I don’t want to let it move stay in that little spot

JoAnn Crohn: It’s really hard when we’re trying to people please because I was talking with my husband over the phone. I’m like, yeah, this has been great. the same things have happened, but we’ve gotten past them and it’s okay. And he’s like, oh, maybe I’m the problem. And I’m like, I wouldn’t say that. And I mentioned it to my daughter and she’s like, well, sometimes he is the problem, but no, we miss him. We miss him. Um,

Brie Tucker: It’s a matter of you teaching him these tricks. He needs to learn these tricks too, right?

JoAnn Crohn: It’s kind of like that. And it’s also, I noticed that when he’s around, I also tried to take care of him too. And so it’s adding one more thing into the mix. So it’s like balancing what the kids want with what I know he wants, which is an adult.

It’d just be like, Oh, it’s chill. And I’m, I’m fine with anything, Which you mentioned, like when we travel together, that’s how it is. We’re fine with anything, but with kids, it’s just not like that. They’re not fine with anything. And so it makes us have to switch into that mode where we go along with them just as much as we expect them to go along with us.

I think that’s the thing. Like we expect kids just to be chill and roll and go with the flow and that’s not how they are. They’re a lot more rigid than that.

Brie Tucker: Sometimes you got the exception and you got the kid that’s chill and go with the flow, but that’s the exception. That’s not the norm. so what I’m hearing are that the three things that can really, really help you not dread traveling with your kids was the first thing you said was making decisions based on what will make you happy

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. And making sure that you’re good with your no as well. Being like, no, we’re going here. And, being okay if everybody’s not joyous to go there,

Brie Tucker: and giving them their space to work through that joyousness or that

JoAnn Crohn: and giving them the space. Yeah. And we have lots of conversations, too, as a family about, hey, like, one of us really wants to go there, we should go there for them, and then they go there for us, too, on vacation, and it’s all good, and it’s about making the compromises on vacation. So it’s an important skill that they’re learning

Brie Tucker: Right. And then another one that I really, uh, the second tip that you said that was amazing was like talking about setting the boundary and then letting it go. you’re talking about like pretending nothing is wrong, but essentially what you’re doing is like, you’re just letting it go. Don’t, fester on it.

Don’t keep being upset.

JoAnn Crohn: Because I think a lot of us feel like setting a boundary is wrong, and that’s why we feel guilty about it. And it’s only wrong if we act like it’s wrong after we do it. So if you act like everything’s okay, pretty soon your brain starts believing that everything’s okay with me setting a boundary. It’s hard to get into that. at first you kind of just have to act it out and the feeling comes after.

Brie Tucker: I love that. I love that. And then also the last one, which again, I know I am hugely guilty of is forcing yourself into this perfect vacation mode, wanting everything to go perfect. So you try to control everything. You try to dissipate everybody’s needs to make sure everyone’s happy. And Murphy’s law will always come to get you on that.

JoAnn Crohn: It will always make you unhappy. Yeah. I think the best thing is to just make sure that you know what you want, and knowing what you want. Is not doing stuff that makes everyone happy. That’s impossible. don’t even put that on the like radar, because I know talking to a lot of moms, they’re like, I just want to do whatever makes everyone else happy. No,

Brie Tucker: no because then you’ll spend the whole time at IHOP or at the Meow Cafe.

JoAnn Crohn: Yes. And that wouldn’t even make everyone else happy because if we did that, my daughter would be unhappy and like, it’s just impossible. So just know the specific things. If you were there by yourself without your kids, where do you want to go? And that’s what you put on your itinerary so that you have something in the mix as well as your family.

Brie Tucker: Because you are worth it and you deserve to be happy as well.

JoAnn Crohn: Exactly. So remember the best mom is a happy mom. Take care of you and we’ll talk to you later.

Brie Tucker: Thanks for stopping by.