Podcast Episode 345: How to Talk the Talk and Walk the Walk When It Comes to Body Image Transcripts
Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.
I think it would be awesome if we could all be positive about our bodies all the time. But I think the pendulum has swung really far—from body negativity in the 90s and 2000s to this hyper body positivity. And honestly? That’s not always helpful either.
JoAnn Crohn (00:00.494)
Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast. I’m your host, JoAnn Crohn here by the lovely Brie Tucker. Why? Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello. How are you? you, Yeah, that intro’s not going to stick. It sounded cooler in my head. Oh, that happens to me a lot too, yes. Well, we are doing something that we haven’t done before here on the No Guilt Mom podcast. Our Happy Mom Summit is open for registration right now and so we’re sharing our favorite sessions from it. Some of our favorite, I feel like all of them are our favorite, but we really had to pick a few from the top of our head to share with you. Right, like so we’ve been doing this summit for four years. Every year it gets bigger and bigger. This year we have over 50 speakers. There was so much information. So much information, so much good stuff, such good stuff. And this one is no exception because
This is our friend, Dr. Whitney Casares. She has been part of our summit for the past two years, and she’s also been on this podcast as well. She is a pediatrician in the Portland area, and she has so much to share about mom mental health and taking care of kids, but also taking care of yourself as a mom. Like part of Dr. Whitney’s story is just listening to the people who told her what to do with her children instead of actually listening to the situation with her children. She wrote a book. Really? Yeah, she wrote a book. One of her children has special needs and had to go to occupational therapy. She was just told by the occupational therapist, there was a situation that happened that her daughter was telling the therapist about. The therapist comes out and she’s like, your daughter would like to say something to you. It was about how-like Dr. Whitney didn’t spend enough time with her. Yeah, I remember that episode and I remember that story. Yeah, and Dr. Whitney was like, excuse me? Well, because in that moment, she felt like a horrible mom. I it’s bad enough when you’re… And I will only be on the soapbox for a moment, guys, I promise. I mean, it’s bad enough when your kid says something that makes you just…feel awful, like they’ll say something like, I wish you just were around more. I wish you would just like be nicer. And I mean, it’s bad enough in the sense that it tends to rip us up, right? But let’s add in the extra factor of, now there’s another adult that is judging me as harsh as my kid. And you don’t know that story. But that’s the story that goes on in your head. it’s, yeah, that was not a fun moment. I think I’ve been
in moments like that several times with my kids. Yeah, it’s Where something is said and I’m like, want to die right here. It’s crazy though, like have another adult be brought it up to you. I did a lot of things wrong as a teacher, but that is something I wouldn’t do to a parent. I wouldn’t have their child confront the parent in front of me at all because you always have to think like you as a parent know more about the situation than anybody else.
always extra to the story. So it just made me mad on her behalf. But today, today Dr. Whitney is talking about body image and how we as moms can affect what our kids also think about their bodies. So with that, let’s get on with the show.
INTRO MUSIC
Do want your kids to have a positive body image? But when you’re really honest about it, your own body image could use a little boost. This session is going to help you improve how you feel about your body so that you can pass down those positive thoughts to your kids. Welcome Whitney. Thank you so much. Sometimes when I hear people read my bio or read what I’ve done in
I’ve done all the things. Yeah, I feel the same thing. Like you’re like, whoa, I sound really impressive there, but you are impressive. I love this topic too that you’re bringing to us this year because you’re like a frequent Happy Mom Summit guest and talking about body image is so important. It’s something that I personally relate to too because I grew up seeing my mom and my grandma
constantly dieting, like Weight Watchers was a pretty permanent figure in our house. So like, knowing that’s so common for so many people, like what are some of the origins of this body negativity for most modern moms and why is it so hard to love our bodies? Yeah, well, I think there are so many factors that play into this that make us insecure about our bodies. Number one, like you said, all of the stuff that we watched our parents do when we were younger, you know, the Slim Fast diet.
the cabbage soup diets, all of that stuff. But then probably even more importantly, it was all the messaging that we got from our parents and from our grandparents and from society as well. America’s top model. Now I look at clips from that and I’m like, oh my goodness. Even things they would say So toxic. Yeah, it’s like so toxic. Even if you look at things like America’s Got Talent that weren’t even beauty shows and they would talk about people needing to lose weight, it just was pervasive that it was okay to talk about weight and that it was okay to really want to be thin, that thin was the ideal.
And we know that there are so many sources of like, it’s based in racism, it’s rooted in sexism, like so much of it is about trying to keep people in a box and have this really narrowly defined concept of beauty. And even in the medical field, like I have to take full responsibility. I probably didn’t do the right thing by some families early on in my career because we are so focused on body mass index and we have been so focused on.
weight itself as opposed to health, I think, as a medical community. But thankfully, things are really turning around. There’s been some recent information, recent books that are out there that are talking about how damaging it is for moms to be talking about their weight, for society to be talking about weight so much. And so I think we’re starting to see a change, but those messages that influence, it lives rent-free in my mind, just like I’m sure it does for many of the people that are here at summit.
my gosh, I like see clips of the 1990s MTV Spring Break and like Mandy Moore’s on there and I’m like Mandy Moore, you need to eat a meal. That was our ideal. It’s insane. Now there’s like this other point where it’s like, okay, yes to all the body positivity, but like, there’s a certain point like I feel like I got into it maybe a few months ago where
I gained some weight. All my clothes were feeling kind I wasn’t feeling great about my body or my health. Like pretty, like really like exhausted, honestly, most of the time. So like there’s so much talk about body positivity. Do you think like being positive about our bodies all the time is realistic and something that should be done? Right. So I think it would be awesome if we could all be positive about ourselves and our bodies all the time. But I think it’s the same thing as
how positive we are about ourselves in general, right? Like it’s pretty unrealistic that I’m gonna feel like I make every decision correctly in my life. Like I parent perfectly all the time. And probably it’s kind of dangerous if we’re constantly feeling like overly positive, having this like overly inflated sense of positivity about ourselves constantly. There’s always like a yin and yang. I think what’s happened is that the pendulum has swung really far.
from that body negativity that we all experienced in the 90s and in the early 2000s to this like hyper body positivity. But I think it doesn’t leave room for the real struggles that we have. So it’s like, if you have a negative thought, now all of a sudden you’re bad. And what I want people to know is that it’s totally normal to have negative thoughts. It makes sense that you have negative thoughts. And the more that we can actually just bring awareness to them and have compassion.
for ourselves about like, yes, I feel this way and it makes sense that I do and I’m not alone in it. I think actually the more we’re gonna be able to move to having authentic positivity around our bodies as opposed to just like, oh yes, yes, yes, I’m supposed to be positive. I just saw a post with Ilona, she’s the one who was the rugby player in the Olympics. I love her. Yes, she’s so amazing. Yes, I love her. And she was like, I’m gonna keep it real for you today, you guys, I’m not feeling that.
And one of the psychologists that put stuff in her comments was talking about the idea of body neutrality, that if you feel like it’s too much to try to be positive all the time, then just aiming for it being like not negative basically, like that’s a good enough middle ground step for ourselves. And I found so much comfort in that and like relief to feel like, yeah, I don’t have to feel positive all the time. I just have to catch myself when I’m feeling really negative and unkind to myself.
That’s a great tip because it doesn’t have to be positive all the time. You’re right. It’s like the Pollyanna syndrome that we get into and we’re like, and I think it’s also something that women specifically are kind of like put in this box where like you have to be happy all the time. And if you’re angry and if you’re sad or if you’re mad, something’s like inherently wrong with you and you need to turn it around. So like there’s so many layers of that.
What’s the fine line though between like body positivity and taking care of ourselves? Cause that’s really kind of a hard thing to distinguish between. We’ll be right back after a quick break. What’s the fine line though between like body positivity and taking care of ourselves? Cause that’s really kind of a hard thing to distinguish between. Yeah. So I’m really interested in this concept. I think particularly because I’m a pediatrician and I care for kids.
And what I see happening in this movement of body positivity is of course, in terms of the messaging we give kids, want it to be like not, you need to lose weight or calories or what’s your waist size or whatever. But I think sometimes then that bleeds into, okay, then our kids should just eat whatever they want. It’s fine for us to eat whatever we want. There’s a big movement in terms of kind of the intuitive eating for adults who have had.
issues with food and like eating disorders in the past. And I think that there’s a lot of positive research and great evidence-based research for adults to do that because you’re recovering from something. But for our kids, we really do have to teach them that taking care of your body means that you love it and that you make sure that it is well cared for for a lifetime. And that means things like getting enough rest, getting enough hydration, getting movement, and also
choosing foods that fuel our bodies. I’m kind of irritated with this idea that like all foods are inherently equal. Like, no, that’s just, that’s not reasonable. It’s misinformed. It’s not that there’s necessarily like all these bad foods, but some foods do have more nutritional value than others. And just like we would guide our kids in terms of quality screen use that we would use, we also have to guide our kids toward quality.
And it doesn’t mean again that we’re like, can only eat vegetables, you can only eat whatever. My kids eat cake, my kids eat ice cream, my kids eat candy. But I think we do have to still provide them some education about what are the nutritional qualities of different foods that they eat and what are the things that those foods are going to actually do for our bodies in terms of fuel. And same for movement. Absolutely. It’s so hard as like adult recovering from the 90s culture as like not labeling foods bad.
Because foods were labeled bad for us all the time. Like, no, no candy. That’s bad food. And getting out of that is a really, really hard thing to do. But you have five ways that we can start helping our kids have a more positive relationship with their bodies than we do because we all have been for the 90s. So the first one is you say, realize it starts with you. Tell me more about that.
Yeah, so number one, we know that the research says that what moms do with their kids, how they talk about their bodies, what messages that they’re spewing out there, that is like one of the number one determinants of how kids will feel about their body. So no pressure, but it does start with us. And again, like we were saying before, that doesn’t mean our relationship with food, our relationship with our bodies has to be perfect. In fact, far from it.
But it does mean that if we want authentically our kids to be in a better place than we are, we have to start to take stock. We have to start to work at least on our relationship with our bodies and with food and with movement. And so that can be as simple as I’m gonna start to do some mirror exercises, which are where you stand in front of the mirror and just give some kindness to one part of your body. It doesn’t have to be a traditional part like your arms or your belly or whatever. can be like, oh my gosh, my eyes, wow, they look.
them today. Like anything, right? My elbow’s so great. It’s so My elbow’s so great. Or like, hair is slaying today. Like anything, right? Anything that’s like a positive affirmation to yourself is a great way to start just working on that. And then again, bringing awareness to when we get negative thoughts. Like, ooh, I have a negative thought about my body. Okay, that makes sense that I have that relationship and that feeling about my body. I’m not alone in it.
okay, now what could I do to give myself a little bit more kindness? That’s called mindful self-compassion. And we do that in all kinds of other ways when we’re feeling down about ourselves, feeling guilty, all of that, but we can bring that to food too. absolutely. And like, it doesn’t have to be perfect either. I went through this whole process where I realized it started with me, like when my daughter was two and I saw a picture of myself in Minnesota at a lake.
And there was my daughter and there was me and I had this immediate negative reaction to myself and I was like, I look like so fat. And it was at that time where I’m like, I don’t want to pass this down. Yeah. And I went through my own eating journey and everything. I realized, actually she’s a teenager now. Really recently she pointed out a negative food behavior that I still have where I was like trying to measure all of my food because that’s we were taught. Yeah.
It doesn’t have to be a perfect thing. So I love that realize that it starts with you. Tell us about the second one about committing to this, it till you make it. Yeah. Okay. So first of all, small story on the original point of like, it starts with you. Last night, my kids were acting a fool. I was in the kitchen and I came out from the living room where my kids were, where they were arguing and whatever.
And I looked and there’s a piece of cornbread that was sitting there. And my very first thought in my mind was like, you’re mine. You know what I mean? Like, like I want to devour the cornbread in a way to see myself. So even that is a step in the right direction of changing your relationship with food is like recognizing, ooh, that’s something that I do when I feel stressed is that I want to drink more or I want to eat more in a way to soothe myself. And it would have been fine if I ate the cornbread, but
it was a good opportunity to just stop and pause and be like, whoa, that’s my gut reaction is to do that. Okay, is that the actual step that I wanna take or do I wanna do something different for myself that’s gonna be maybe a little more healthy in the long run? I love that, I love the soothing because like food is like so much more than just getting calories for so many people. It is that emotional reaction and self soothing needs. like how can-
How could we then go into fake it to you bake it when we were like drawn to the cornbread? Yeah, so here’s what I mean, right? Actually, this is a great thing from the cornbread. So that was a story that I went then and told my husband later. I like, I could not believe what I just did. My goodness. But I would not tell that story to my kids. I am not going to be sharing with my kids like, you know what mom does sometimes when she feels really down about herself, she like cuts her calories and like starts to get like restrictive about things like.
our kids don’t need to know the inner workings of our minds and how negative we can get to ourselves. It’s fine for us to tell our kids about this is the message the world sometimes sends, my gosh, in the 90s you would not believe how terrible it would be. It’s kind of like teaching our kids about 1950s racism, right? Like it’s good for our kids to understand kind of what we’ve come from, but they don’t need to have a.
full window into the chaos that’s in our minds and the food chatter that’s in our minds as moms, if we want them to have it be different. So when my daughter has come home and said, know, know, a at school called me jelly belly. You know, and my initial thought is like, ooh, I would feel bad if someone said that. I hate it. You know, the message that I gave to my daughter was, okay, well, how did that make you feel? She’s like, it’s fine. I mean, I love my belly. It’s like a little bit rounder than other kids, but it’s all good. So then I had to reframe.
JoAnn Crohn (18:04.874)
what I think of my own mind to what’s going to be helpful to her. So something more like, okay, well, that’s amazing. If for some reason that starts to feel bad to you, then tell people not to say that to you, you know? Like to have a whole conversation with her that’s based off messaging that’s actually gonna be helpful to her as opposed to the way that we’ve been ingrained for a long time. Yeah.
I actually love how times are changing in regards of body type and body image. My 15-year-old daughter has such a different body image of herself. She still has those things where she wants to be smaller. I think that’s still baked into our media, that’s baked into everything online. But she has these positive role models now, like Alona and all of these strong women.
who she can model from. And like when we model that positive behavior too, it only gets better. It only gets better for them. Number three you have about making these healthy habits about fun. Like how do we do that? Okay, so many of us because of the condition that we’ve had look at exercise as a punishment. I we might like to go on a nice walk with our friends or go on a hike or something, but like.
far wide we’re like, I ate that, so now I need to go burn it off, right, with doing exercise. And thinking about, and even like the metrics that are associated with exercise classes and stuff, like how many calories you burn to whatever. So really trying to change what we do with our family, even if we’re still working on our own stuff, to make movement really about having a good time, about how we feel. So is there something that makes us feel stronger? Does being part of a soft?
team make us feel like we are more connected with other people? Does dancing to our favorite song make us feel more alive? you know, riding our bike as fast as we can, does that make our heart beat really fast and we feel like we get those good endorphins? So trying to think about movement, especially as a way to kind of celebrate all the different emotions. And then with food, trying to make it about two things. One, about celebration.
So what are the ways that we can really celebrate life together? What are recipes that are maybe traditions in our family that we can cook together that make us feel like we really are a strong family unit? And then also what are the foods that fuel us? So what does the tomato that I’m growing in my garden, what does that do for my kids’ eyes? How does that help them in terms of having a healthy heart and so on? So really trying to change our narrative for ourselves, but even more so for our.
kids to think about what is this food or what is this movement going to do for me in a way that feels really fun, feels really active, feels really engaging. We’ll be right back after a quick break. So really trying to change our narrative for ourselves, but even more so for our kids to think about what is this food or what is this movement going to do for me in a way that feels really fun, feels really active, feels really engaging.
Absolutely. And I have to say like the colors in foods too are something that you could really like, I don’t want to say capitalize on, but you really use to your benefit. Like we in our refrigerator have these like plastic clear containers that we put like the strawberries and the blueberries and like cut up bell peppers right in front. And it looks so appealing that you’re like, I’m not just doing this because it’s healthy. I’m doing this because, it looks good. And that’s going to be a great option. Tell us about
Number four, normalizing body diversity. Yes. So this is all about giving your kids exposure to people who do not look like themselves. Different body shapes, different body colors, different hair types, different hair colors, because this isn’t just about like small or big. This is also about just the fact that people genetically are wired to look in different ways.
And then also the environment impacts that as well. So teaching our kids about the idea of genes plus environment. My daughter’s booty looks similar to mine because she’s my kid, right? My daughter’s breasts are probably gonna be small and mighty because she’s my kid. This is just the way that we’re all designed and things happen from a genetic reason. So trying to give our kids exposure.
And then if we are watching something that is like on YouTube or is on a movie and it looks like, ooh, all these people look like they’re exactly the same, pointing that out to our kids to be like, ooh, do you feel like this is a good representation of what you actually see in your school or actually see in real life? That helps our kids to start having critical thinking around like, hmm, is this kind of like fake and something that people are trying to get us to ascribe to? Or is it really what matches reality?
Yeah, like, and it’s interesting to see that there is a wider range now of body diversity being presented. Like I know you’re you’re a Swiftie, right? You’re as well as I am. Yes, Taylor Swift’s dancers represent such like a wide range of body diversity that like having kids see that is an amazing, amazing thing. Like my daughter was just pointing out one of her favorite dancers is Cam, the guy and
he does not fit into any of the body molds and he is like one of the most expressive, amazing people. seeing those representations is great. absolutely. Number five, focus more on how your body feels than how it looks. dig into that one, Whitney. Yes. Okay. So this one is about this idea of, you know, my body is an instrument, not an ornament. So of course- I like that phrase. Yes.
course, it makes sense. Our physical selves are a part of us. So I think it’s silly to have this idea that we’re never gonna care about, know, if our hair looks like it’s out of whack or whatever. Like, we are gonna care about those things, but I want us to try to be able to give the message to our kids that what their body is able to do for them and how they feel in their own body matters so much more than how they look on the outside.
This also includes things like their emotions. So, you know, am I feeling anxious? Am I feeling angry? Am I feeling sad? Because we know that those are then gonna drive those coping mechanisms that I still have in my head for the cornbread. I want it to be that then my kiddo could be like, ooh, immediately I’m anxious or I’m sad or I’m frustrated. Okay, what are all the tools in my tool belt that I could use? And sometimes it might be, you know, it would be great to go like get ice cream with mom.
JoAnn Crohn (24:54.776)
feels good, or it might be, I want to go take a walk, or it might be, I want to listen to my favorite Taylor Swift song. What’s the thing that’s actually going to be the most healthy and the most helpful in this moment? Because a lot of us learned to eat our feelings as we were growing up, and that’s we don’t want for our kids. like me, totally, right? So I want our kids to have a different relationship with food where it’s not the only tool in their tool belt, and it’s not their go-to.
every single time. Yeah, it’s so difficult too because I think it also requires some introspection, which we also were not told to pay attention to when we were kids and identifying the emotions that we’re feeling. Whitney, what is one action step that you want people watching this presentation right now to take? Yeah, so I want them to understand first and foremost that loving your body doesn’t
mean it’s like a free for all, a well, I have to be body positive all the time or else I am like not a good person or I’m not on the right body positivity train. This is a journey. The first step is just to start becoming more aware of what our thoughts are and where those thoughts came from so that then we can start to take some action as to being more kind to our bodies and recognizing all of those messages that come floating into our heads.
that’s so good. So like, how do we model that? How do we like recognize that for our kids? What’s like one little thing people can do like right now after getting off of this? Yes. So I think the biggest thing is you can even, you can tell your friends that are around you, Hey, if you start hearing me say something negative or you start hearing me comparing myself to somebody else, would you catch me? Would you start like helping me by saying, Hey, nobody talks to my friend that way. And all do the same for you.
Is there an accountability person that you could just have them be your little mirror for you? And I bet you the more that someone else starts saying it to you, you’ll start to become more aware in your own head. yes. I find that so helpful. I have been the accountability partner to friends and friends have done that to me and it’s such a good thing to do. So make sure to find a friend to do that as soon as you get off of this. But don’t leave yet.
Tell us about the five ways to help your kids love their bodies when you’re still trying not to hate your own. Yes, exactly. So it goes through each of the points that we just talked about, but it goes in great detail as to exercises that you can do on your own. And then also exercises you can do with your kids. And I mean, exercises as in like activities you can do. So that mirror activity, I show you exactly how to do that.
talk about finding the accountability partner. We talk about what are the media images going through with your kids and different questions you can ask together. So a lot of great details so that you feel like you have really specific action steps that you can take on each of those steps toward finding more body positivity for yourself and more for your kids. I love it.
So Whitney, thank you so much for sharing all this information about body image and loving your body, loving your body for, I’m going to start using that phrase, your body’s an instrument, not an ornament, because I love it so, so much. And Whitney, we will talk to you later. Sounds great. Thanks for having me. So I loved Dr. Whitney’s advice about normalizing body diversity and like different body types. I always stuck with the
the rule of thumb when my kids were little of like, you we don’t say fat, we describing people, we try not to comment on their body type. But now I see how that just makes it so that my kids didn’t have the vocabulary, didn’t know what to say. And so now like, yeah, I feel like I did them a disservice because I am so good at that with emotions.
but I missed the mark on the body image. And it’s not like, you know, the end of the world, but I wish I could go back and change a few things. Well, I think that like we were raised in such a toxic environment in the nineties where body image was like not good. And I mean, we’re both still like having the effects from that.
seeing as how like diet cultures all the rage and like women just want to like get on all these different diet programs to lose weight instead of like accepting their bodies the way they are accepting how they feel about their bodies. Like our society could be so much better to women in their bodies. So much better. my God. Yes. Like don’t even don’t even get us started on the body changes from
having kids and then just when you’re getting older and your body decides that, you know, hey, we’re not going to work the way we used to. We like there’s multiple with any.
It’s family systems theory. You have multiple personalities in you. That’s it. There we go. There we go. Well, if you enjoyed our interview with Dr. Whitney, which I mean, how could you not, you’re going to love our Happy Mom Summit. It’s absolutely free to attend. But if you want all the sessions right now, we have it available for you in the VIP pass, which you’ll learn about right after you register for your free ticket. So how do we register for the free ticket, Joanne? that’s a great question.
Go to happymomsummit.com and grab your free ticket there. Yeah. And then join us March 3rd through 7th where we just have a big party. We talk about all the things and you’re gonna make some new friends as well. Our summit community is one of the best summit communities around. yeah, you’re gonna make friends. You’re going to learn amazing information. You’re going to win prizes and wait, what else?
You never have to leave the comfort of your bed. You can just hang out in your jammies, drink your favorite coffee, because I’m staring at my ice latte that I’m dying to finish right now. And if you’re a listener to the podcast, you’ve heard us mention our Balance program all the time. So just know that VIP Pass has a free full month in Balance. It’s you’ve always been curious and want to try it out, it’s right there for you. Yep. So until next time, remember, the best mom’s a happy mom. Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later.
Thanks for stopping by.
Brie Tucker
COO/ Podcast Producer at No Guilt Mom
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