Podcast Episode 287: Mean People Suck! How to Deal Without Losing Your Cool Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

Brie Tucker: being curious, setting boundaries, they all kind of come back to realizing that hurt people hurt others a lot. I mean, that is a thing. That is a thing people tend to lash out when they’re hurt or they’re upset.

JoAnn Crohn: Welcome to the no guilt mom podcast. I’m your host, JoAnn Crohn joined here by the lovely Brie Tucker.

Brie Tucker: Why, hello, hello everybody. How are you? we have a friend today who is hanging out for the podcast recording. Everybody!

JoAnn Crohn: Maxie, hi, Maxie. Yeah, we, we stream these podcast episodes on Instagram every day, either it’s around noon or noon 30 Pacific time. So if you ever want to see the video, go on over to the Instagram noon 30. That’s what I like to call it. It’s noon 30 because it’s different than midnight 30. It’s noon

Brie Tucker: I’ve never heard anybody say midnight 30 though. Is that a thing?

JoAnn Crohn: No I made it up.

Brie Tucker: Oh, okay.

JoAnn Crohn: It should be a thing. It should be a thing. I’m going to start a trend. Everyone’s going to now call it noon 30 or midnight 30.

It’s how it goes.. And today. We are talking about how mean people suck.

Brie Tucker: Cause mean people do

JoAnn Crohn: There’s a segue. They do suck. They do. And it’s hard as an adult when you’re dealing with a mean person.

And it’s also hard when you’re trying to advise your kids when they’re dealing with mean people at school and people who say horrible things and all this stuff. So we’re giving you tips this episode on how to deal with it. Without losing your cool. And now let’s get on with the show.

So mean people. Bri. I have dealt with my fair share of mean people and the hardest mean people to deal with are the ones who are nice to your face and say stuff behind your back. I feel that’s really, I mean, it’s. Mean girl ask. I feel that’s really how women tend to operate less of the confrontational aggressive and more of the relational and like saying stuff.

Behind your back to get at you. I mean, I remember when I was a teacher, I, was called the upstairs boss behind my back. And it was started by one person in particular. And I never confronted this person. but I knew it was her because one of my teammates basically ratted her out and told me, that they were saying stuff behind my back. just making fun of me, making fun of how I wanted to like lead things and take charge and call me upstairs boss. And that sucks when you deal with that as an individual

Brie Tucker: especially when someone’s doing it just to be mean. Like they’re

JoAnn Crohn: just to be mean,

Brie Tucker: And I mean, we all know that, A lot of people have their, covert reasons for doing things like maybe they’re insecure, maybe they’re jealous of you, whatever it is, but when it comes down to it, they’re just being mean. They’re just being a jerk.

JoAnn Crohn: And sometimes it’s like, Yeah. I hear that and I’m like, I know it comes from a place of insecurity. I know it does. And

Brie Tucker: Doesn’t make it hurt less, though.

JoAnn Crohn: no, but nowadays I, I don’t blame myself. I don’t think it’s something wrong with me. I’m like, okay, they’re insecure, but I don’t have to deal with this anymore. I mean, one situation that happened years ago was with an old friend that was trying to reach out and make things better. And then I heard like, She was also telling stuff to her kids behind, my back about me.

Brie Tucker: and you’re like, that’s two

JoAnn Crohn: I was like, and that’s done and we’re done and I am not going to meet with you in person and I will be civil with you. And no, it’s just not going to happen. and sometimes you have to set those boundaries with people because Yes, it could come from a place of insecurity on their side But you also don’t have to put up with it.

Brie Tucker: Yeah, no, you don’t have to. and the thing is, is that, like you said, , it’s no matter who you are, no matter how old you are, you’re going to have to deal with mean people. They exist in the world. It is, a piece of, human nature and our goal behind this episode is to, like, share what we’ve been through dealing with this, what we did, and what our best advice can be for dealing with this. Just because. Some people just are not pleasant people to be around.

JoAnn Crohn: No,

Brie Tucker: And you’re gonna have to

JoAnn Crohn: with you. It’s like one of my favorite things I say to myself is I’m like, if they were a happy person, they wouldn’t be doing these things because happy people don’t do that. They just don’t

Brie Tucker: Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I’m trying to think. Like, I, I had, so my mean people that still stick out in my head, I had somebody, well, I was, So like, we’ve talked about that, talked about this before, like I’ve been, I was bullied when I was younger and I mean, I think most of us could say we probably were, especially if you grew up in the eighties and nineties. Right? Like it was not a huge thing.. I take that back. Like it was a huge thing. It obvious here I am 45 and I’m still remembering it. So clearly it had some impact on me. Right?

JoAnn Crohn: Oh, it’s still so visceral for me. I want to like call out their first and last name on air right now, which I will not, I will not do, but like, that’s the emotional effect it has

Brie Tucker: Right. Right. So like I had, I had tons of people say in whatever crap to me growing up, the biggest one I remember, and I’ll say this just like for high school, there is this girl that like never liked me. And , when you go to school in Kansas city, I don’t know if it was the same for you, but like you end up with the same people like, right from like kindergarten on.

So This person was like the bane of my existence from probably like first grade on all the way through high school. She was a cheerleader. So she hung out with, like, my best friends all the time and she would say mean things to me in front of my face, like Oh, you smell. Oh, you’re ugly. Oh, whatever. Like, Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was that fantastic. And then she would do the thing where since , she was a cheerleader with my best friends, she would trash talk me at cheerleading practice. And my friends would have to be like, Hey, can you stop? Like, that’s not really nice.

They wanted to like her, but at the same time, she was so mean to me for no reason. Like, they’d be like, well, why don’t you like her? She’s like, I don’t know. She’s just annoying. And, yeah, like, to this, yeah, like, to this day, still drove me nuts, made me feel insecure, made me feel awful. And, yeah. Now I know as I’m older, and this person has reached out to me on Facebook we are Facebook and Instagram friends, I have since figured out that she just didn’t like me because I couldn’t be knocked down a peg. Like, Yeah, like I, I didn’t like her, but I still kept doing things. I still kept being loud, kept being a little bit oddball because that was just me. And, and most people liked me for it. And I think it drove her nuts. I really do. Like the more I’ve gotten to see her as an adult, I’m like, girl’s got some serious insecurities going on.

JoAnn Crohn: it’s usually the insecurities that get everybody. It’s funny. Cause now, like, I mean, I remember in middle school, I was so like after, uh, like a PE class um, like I finally found friends in middle school. I was seventh grader. I’m like, Oh my gosh, I’m at a new school and I have friends.

And then something happened. And I’m going to tell you what that is right after this. So in seventh grade, I was in P. E. Seventh period P. E. We had eight periods in the school day, and I remember the time one girl turned like every person in my class against me. Like, she worked very systematically to turn almost everybody. , I admittedly didn’t wear deodorant. Okay. I put that right out there.

I didn’t think I needed to wear deodorant. I wasn’t schooled on it. I wasn’t told by any adult that I needed to wear deodorant. Now, oh my gosh, I tell all my kids all the time, Hey, you might want to put some deodorant on like, cause I want to be the one to tell them. I don’t want them called up by their peers for that. And I do it very kindly. And I’m teaching them like,

Brie Tucker: You need to be self aware. Be self aware.

JoAnn Crohn: self aware. This girl took my new friend aside and she’s like, Hey, come here. And my friend who was walking next to me back to the locker room went back to them and they were whispering to each other and they’re looking at me and I heard, Oh, don’t be her friend

Brie Tucker: Oh,

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. And that was the last my new friend talked to me at all. I spent most of seventh and eighth grade with two friends who I love dearly. friends And then eighth grade got a little bit better. I got my confidence up a little bit there. I joined student government, which really helped, um, and I wore deodorant all the like after that one moment and like that, that time too. And I actually found out I smelled because two boys like lean their chairs back and they’re like, Hey, does JoAnn smell?

And that’s when I smelled, I’m like, oh my gosh. And I had deodorant in my backpack and I went and I put it on right there. And I’d never. Didn’t have a problem after that. I’m pretty sure. Cause I checked religiously. If I

Brie Tucker: I was gonna say, How did that conversation go with your parents when you’re like, Hey, I think I could like use some deodorant. and

JoAnn Crohn: they had they gave me deodorant. I just didn’t use

Brie Tucker: Oh, it’s like, Yeah, they didn’t give you the coaching that you kind of needed to go along with that.

JoAnn Crohn: like this is important. You need to do this But I mean, how would they know it was probably a common sense thing? Like we do common sense as parents like how would they know they probably

Brie Tucker: Well, I know, but that’s why we’re here letting you guys know kids sometimes don’t know the simplest things. We think that they figure it out, but a lot of times it’s worth asking that question.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, I mean to my fifth graders when I was a teacher I would always tell them that story and how important it was to wear deodorant None of my students had that problem. We did not have a stinking classroom ever

Brie Tucker: fantastic. And a lot of people can thank you for that.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. Um, I see now how middle school was so hard got, you had to pick someone else for everybody to make fun of.

So they wouldn’t make fun of you. This girl who did it, like looking back, her face was covered with acne. I am sure she was insecure. I’m sure she was. And she was just trying to take the attention off of her. Uh, like subconsciously, but that’s what was going on at the time. but yeah, mean people, like it is so hard.

And usually when I’m dealing with somebody, that’s the first thing I go to. I’m like, we have some insecurity going on in this situation. So we have some tips we want to run through with you when you are encountered with a mean person. So that first tip,

Brie Tucker: The first tip, , this one, it’s a little bit of a Ted Lasso inspiration. It’s great advice, but every time I say the statement, I can’t stop thinking about Ted Lasso playing darts in the bar. So the first tip is be curious. so when someone’s being mean, like asking them like, okay, Hey, Why do you feel that way?

Or why do you feel like, you know, you need to say that, but be honestly curious. You can’t just be like asking them why and not listening at all or having your whole mind in your mind like, while you’re asking the question going, because they’re a jerk because they’re a. But face like, no, like it, it, no, you need to honestly be curious.

And sometimes I have seen that work where that immediately right there, someone asking them the question made them like, go back and be like, Oh crap. I just got called out on that. I didn’t mean to get called out on it. And then a lot of times I’ve seen an immediate apology come by like, Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean it that way. when darn well, they may have meant it that way, but getting called on it. Yeah, but being called on it is enough to stop them right there in their tracks.

JoAnn Crohn: yeah, that be curious really falls in line with you need more information, like just like we tell you with kids, like usually in all circumstances, you need more information and you need it directly from that person. I mean, there was a situation in a recent conference that I attended where, uh, somebody came up and was like, like, They’re saying some things about your presentation.

And I’m like, Oh, really, really? And I’m like, okay, well, thank you for telling me that. And I went directly to that person and like, I talked to her outside in the hallway and I’m like, Hey, Hey, I, I noticed that like you were chatting during that presentation and I just wanted to see if I could help you in any way, make anything make sense for you. Anything immediately. You could see the reaction and the cover up almost

Brie Tucker: The wheels spinning in their head of what

JoAnn Crohn: wheels made me be like, Oh no, no, it was all great. It was great. I’m like, but I, don’t know what happened. I can never say for sure what happened in my mind. I think that yes, things were said and there was some backpedaling going on, but I chose to go forward with being like, Hey, if you need anything at all.

Please come to me directly and please ask me the question. I am totally open up to any criticism or advice that you have. I want to get better. Please let me know. and that being curious helps a lot because also like people have issues and they have no idea how to address them. They don’t like they’ve never been taught good communication skills.

Like we’re really not taught those things. So if you don’t tell them that you’re open, it’s going to go on behind your back, especially if you’re a leader. Yeah.

Brie Tucker: , and tip number two is stay calm and listen quietly. again, Brie’s brain is so visual. Now I’m going back to like the, the, what was the one from like World War II, like stay calm and carry on, like stay calm and listen, but listen quietly. sometimes we talk about this a lot and, I think about you a lot, like when I’m trying to do this, just don’t fill the silence.

Just ask the question or once they said something really mean, sometimes just like stay in there Just stare at them. Quietly.

JoAnn Crohn: like, what’d you mean by that?

Brie Tucker: Yeah. It can some

JoAnn Crohn: That’s an interesting thing to

Brie Tucker: yeah. Sometimes the lack of a response of just somebody like standing there and staring at somebody can make them be like, Oh snap.

JoAnn Crohn: The quiet people reveal a lot about themselves too. If you’re quiet, like the, you will get talkers where you find out a lot of information just by staying silent. I mean, we all know somebody who could keep talking and talking at you kind of like Ken in the Barbie movie playing guitar at you.

Brie Tucker: ha

JoAnn Crohn: It’s like, there are those people who talk at you. And you’re just like, okay,

Brie Tucker: Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: okay. And you find out everything, every possible thing. And they usually can talk themselves out of ideas and things as well. So it’s really interesting strategy. You don’t have to defend yourself. You don’t have to be like the trickiest or the slyest or the cleverest and try to make up a point to say how wrong they are. I would say like eight to nine times out of 10 people will prove themselves wrong if you just let them

Brie Tucker: Yes. Yes. So those first two tips are, are really big ones. I mean, big chunks that will help you a lot with dealing with somebody who is mean or saying mean things. And we have three more tips for you right after this.

JoAnn Crohn: Okay, so we’ve given you two tips already for how to deal with mean people, and I want to put like a almost disclaimer in these tips. These are only tips for dealing with mean people who you still want to have a relationship with, or you’re still working with. Because You don’t have to deal with mean people if they mean nothing to you. If it’s like some rando who, like, you’re never gonna see like, just turn your head and walk away. Like, as comments on the internet, block commenter, delete, go your own Like, you do not need to listen to everybody. So, I just want to put that out there.

Brie Tucker: that’s a good one. That’s it. Well, actually, that’s a good one. And that leads you right into tip number three. Do you want to do tip three?

JoAnn Crohn: Oh, yeah, set the boundaries. Set the boundaries of the conversation, like before, how we said to stay quiet, there are sometimes like what they say will strike such an open nerve with you, where you cannot stay quiet. And that’s when you could set a boundary about when you’re going to talk about this, even saying like, Hey, what you said right there made me really upset. I need to cool down and I will not talk about this right

Brie Tucker: Yeah,

JoAnn Crohn: and then leave it at that. Adults this well well with. They might follow you out of the room, close the door in their face. They’re the crazy one, not you.

Brie Tucker: a couple of people in my life that consistently I have to say to them, I will be happy to talk to you about this later when we can have this conversation in a respectful tone, or I’m happy to have this conversation later when we can talk without using names. , and I think that that one is like a really good one that can be used for kids too.

When you’re really scared, someone’s calling you a doo doo head, whatever it is, right? , and you can be like, I think for kids it’s really, it helps a lot. But again, like I said, I just used that statement a week ago , via text. I will have this conversation when you are in a better place and you can speak respectfully.

JoAnn Crohn: And it’s done and with text it’s like you just stop responding and they can light your text up as much as possible They’re the crazy ones not you

Brie Tucker: setting, you’re setting what is actually like a very reasonable and healthy boundary. So like one, you’re calling them on their crap. So if they were to sit there and be like, well, I wasn’t, I wasn’t trying to call names. , I was being respectful. And then like, if you have, that’s fine.

The ability to continue on that conversation, because I understand sometimes some mean people are scary, depending upon where they’re at and in life. They might be scary to you. So then you can be like, no, you were not being respectful because you said I was having a temper tantrum. No, you’re not being respectful because, you. called me a name that was unnecessary, so no, no, you weren’t. It’s very black and white.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, it is and it’s also hard. I feel like boundaries like It’s easy to think of a boundary you want to set, it’s harder to enforce it. And I think the main thing that makes it so hard to enforce is that you don’t think you’re worthy of the boundary.

Brie Tucker: you’re scared of what’s

JoAnn Crohn: being a mean person.

Yeah, you’re scared of what’s going to happen. You’re scared of losing the relationship. You think that setting a boundary is going to make you lose a relationship. a lot of these can be tied into also a concept I learned recently called emotional fusion, where your emotions are so tied up in somebody else’s emotions that you think that their emotions are caused by you.

Or that relate to you or that if they’re happy, you’re happy. If there’s mad, you’re mad. Like that’s not healthy. That’s a form of codependence. And once you realize that you can start trying to like take yourself out of it, or at least like getting help to get out of that. Because what we look for is interdependence in relationships.

It’s basically, I’m okay. You’re okay. We’re both good. We’re both good. Your emotions don’t dictate my emotions whatsoever. So boundaries going back to boundaries. We had a situation in our balance group about family boundaries about, uh, a dad, an older dad who disrespected his daughter’s home when he came into it. And she is so afraid of setting a boundary because she doesn’t want to lose her dad or the relationship with her

Brie Tucker: And it’s your dad! It’s a little scary!

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah.

It’s really scary. It is really, really scary. And I had a situation like this come up in my family where I had to have a conversation about a boundary I had to set.

And you know what? That family member did not take it well at all. It was us crying and a hang up on me. We didn’t talk for a week. Emotions had to cool down. And when emotions cool down, what I found out is that with I set that boundary, that family member heard something completely different than what I actually said. They heard that they were a bad person

Brie Tucker: Oh,

JoAnn Crohn: all of the shame came out. Everything. And that’s typically what’s happening when you set a boundary and they have an intense reaction, they are taking it in, they have that emotional fusion going on, thinking that they are the cause and the root of other people’s unhappiness. And so huge emotional explosion, of course, when you think that way. And there’s no preventing it. You just have to let the emotions die down before you actually can find out the real reason behind it. You can’t predict the future.

Brie Tucker: Yep.

JoAnn Crohn: all.

Brie Tucker: So, all right, this next tip. so like, just to be clear, when I was doing this, some of these were tips that like we already know that we’ve gotten from, like books we’ve read about communication, whatnot. This was one that kind of came from the internet, and I’m like, I’m gonna throw this one in because I think for the less serious mean people.

This one works well. So this is a good one to have in the back pocket. and we’ve all heard it. Like my grandma told me this one, my Nana, it was like, kill him with kindness. trying to use humor to defuse the situation or offering them compassion. one thing I’ve done when like, Family members that I feel pretty confident in my relationship with. So like, let’s say like my kids or something, if they’re being like really rude or mean or something, I would be like, Sounds like someone needs a hug.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah.

Brie Tucker: And I’m saying it to make them laugh at me. And then I, like, run over at them, like, trying to hug them and then they’re like, Oh, stop it, you’re a dork!

Ah ha! And then, like, they’re normally in a better mood. And I can tell you, like, yesterday, I was so cranky mean. I was a cranky mean person yesterday. I was just having my crabby pants on. And I was being snippy and mean, even to my daughter. She was like, Mom! You’re not being very nice for now. I’ll be like, yeah, you’re right. And then yeah, you’ll actually kind of turned it around to that. I was like, I need a hug. And I got a

JoAnn Crohn: It’s funny the kill them with kindness thing because I’m always reminded of the phrase bless your heart. When you hear bless your heart from the Southern person or from anybody, you know you’re in trouble. You’re in trouble. Like they are pissed off at you. When you hear bless your heart, you’re like, Oh, what did I do to upset you? Oh,

Brie Tucker: rare occasions where you get a bless your heart because you did do something so sweet. Oh, bless your heart. That’s so sweet. But it’s the tone. It’s the tone as, as opposed to the, uh, bless your heart. Like

JoAnn Crohn: Oh, bless your heart. And

Brie Tucker: that was something my, Nana would do as well. She was a Southerner and that’s what we would get. Bless your heart. And you’re like, Oh shit. What did I do? What did I say? So, yeah. So like sometimes disarming somebody with some humor or kindness is really helpful, again, depending

JoAnn Crohn: But the last

Brie Tucker: Yeah. the

JoAnn Crohn: last tip is really, it’s the one we all have trouble with. Don’t take it personally.

Brie Tucker: that one hurts.

JoAnn Crohn: real hard. It’s real hard. And I’ve gotten better at this over the years because once you have in your mind that people are mean from like the point of insecurity, you’re like, Oh, that person has some, some issues and some troubles going on there.

There’s a lot of mean stuff said by public figures one in particular. a lot of it is like, okay. Like, I know, I know where this is coming from. People aren’t just mean, probably had a horrible childhood, probably criticized their entire life. all of these things, Probably not, shouldn’t be in public, probably

Brie Tucker: be holding public office, you know?

JoAnn Crohn: shouldn’t have a leadership role, until they could get like some things taken care of, maybe some really heavy therapy to figure out what the issues are. but also can have compassion for that person too, you know?

Brie Tucker: Yes. Because again, like we talked about earlier, being curious, setting boundaries, they all kind of come back to realizing that hurt people hurt others.

A lot. I mean, that is a thing. That is a thing people tend to lash out when they’re hurt or they’re upset. So a lot of times when they’re being mean, and this is an important thing, I think that our kids have to hear, because I think as adults we’ve kind of figured that out.

Either someone has point blank told us, or we’ve just kind of figured it out over time. Right. But I think for kids, like they don’t know that, like letting them know that, like, if someone’s being really mean, I just want you to know that chances are there’s something else going on. Yeah, I think only a

JoAnn Crohn: I have never seen a

Brie Tucker: mean to be mean. I don’t, I’ve never wanted to run into somebody where they were being mean just to be mean.

JoAnn Crohn: even then, guess what, they’re a psychopath. That’s what’s going on. That’s

Brie Tucker: you kind of glazed over that

JoAnn Crohn: There,

Brie Tucker: There, there’s a, there’s a serious mental illness happening in that scenario.

JoAnn Crohn: brain structures going on that like, yeah, I heard that that was the difference actually between a psychopath and a sociopath. The psychopath like could actually be proven biologically that there is something different about their brains. And the sociopath is Almost a learned behavioral thing or

Brie Tucker: I think I remember that. Was that on an armchair? Yeah, that was an armchair expert episode. I think I remember that one. I think I do.

JoAnn Crohn: Shout out to armchair expert. We love

Brie Tucker: yes, yes. so yeah, so just remember that, trying not to let it define you, like, again, like, obviously you and I shared stories of where we had mean people in our lives that it really latched on to us.

heavily. And here we are many, many years later, still hurt about the conversations that were had. And it’s a heavy load. nobody wants to carry that around. So like the sooner you can learn that it isn’t about you and that it’s about something else and you can let that load off it’s so much better for you.

JoAnn Crohn: And I want to add a little bonus tip for parents for how to really help your kids through this as well. and when you’re dealing with mean people, it is hard, but One thing that parents could do is they can accept accountability for their own actions when they were mean themselves, because I think that’s like, not the closure that we get when we deal with those mean situations.

Like me in middle school, like that person never accepted accountability. They never told me that, Hey, I’m so sorry for doing that to you. If I had that closure, it probably wouldn’t hurt as much. I probably wouldn’t, like, if I saw her in public, we’d want to be like, you did this to me in middle school. Like, that’s kind of what I

Brie Tucker: You suck. You suck.

JoAnn Crohn: what I want to do. And, um, like just accepting accountability for your own actions, I think shows kids. That they’re deserving of that they are not at blame for everything that happens. And when we make mistakes as parents and going back and being like, you know what, I really want to apologize for that.

I had not eaten yet and I did not need to say that. And I am so sorry. I shouldn’t have done that. That alone takes so much of the pressure off and shows kids that that is what they’re deserving of in a healthy relationship. People who take accountability.

Brie Tucker: only deserving of accountability, but they don’t have to be perfect

JoAnn Crohn: Mm hmm.

Brie Tucker: loved.

And I, and I think that’s like, again, like, that’s a big thing with a lot of these insecurities people have. They think that they have to be perfect and better than everybody else, so they have to knock other people down pegs.

So that they can be where they think they have to be so that they can be loved so I think that that’s excellent. That’s a huge, that’s like number one, taking accountability, showing your kids that, teaching them that, that is a huge important thing right there. But I, I think we gave everybody the, the secret sauce, the, the recipe for dealing with those mean people.

JoAnn Crohn: all in all, mean people have their own problems going on. That’s why they’re mean. That’s why they’re mean. So, don’t let those mean people get you down.

Brie Tucker: know.

JoAnn Crohn: awesome. You’re amazing. Remember, the best mom’s a happy mom. Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later.

Brie Tucker: Thanks for stopping by.