Podcast Episode 266: Put Perfectionism in the Past Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

Bianca Hughes: perfectionism is more about trying to live up to the beliefs and expectations of somebody else. Look ultimately, cause we’re wired to connect,and as humans, We are really trying to avoid this sense of disconnection, this feeling of rejection and this failure. Those are the ultimate roots and that’s what all this perfectionism is a lot of avoidance of those things. 

JoAnn Crohn: Welcome to the no guilt mom podcast. I am your host JoAnn Crohn joined here by the lovely Brie Tucker.

Brie Tucker: Why, hello, hello, everybody. How are you?

JoAnn Crohn: Guys, we have some podcast shout outs to do today. If you don’t get the no guilt mom weekly yet, we have a sign up for you right in this episode. And we have a little reward program for our no guilt mom weekly people.

When you share it once and you bring someone else into the no guilt mom community, you get a shout out on the podcast. So we’re going to do these shout outs. the first one is to Christina in San Antonio, Texas. thank you for being a no guilt mom and Kristen from Cannon city, Colorado, Fremont County, two people who have shared no guilt mom and brought others in to just, know that we’re not alone and know that we have people there who will support us and help us get out of this together. guilt cycle.

Brie Tucker: Thank you for sharing the love and the message. That is a fantastic part there. We love that

JoAnn Crohn: And in line with that, today we’re talking about perfectionism. So if you feel like you deal with some perfectionist tendencies, as both me and Bri, you too, right?

Brie Tucker: Oh yeah. Oh, there’s so, there’s so many sheds. And as a matter of fact, I, on the outro of this episode, I’m going to be sharing some of my, stories of Where I came up with some of my perfectionism.

JoAnn Crohn: Yes. Yes, please. And in this episode, look forward to hearing about Bianca’s Buddhist retreat where she had to be silent for seven days, which we were like, Whoa. 

Brie Tucker: like a fear that I felt a chill go down my spine on that one. I’m like, I could never, I could never,

JoAnn Crohn: And you’ll hear about why I had an immediate picture of mandy moore in 1999’s mtv spring break so we can’t wait to introduce you to bianca hughes She’s the owner of authentically bu counseling and wellness studio a mental health therapist and a senior Speaker, she actually recently spoke at both of our summits, mom ignited and the happy mom summit.

She guides women to let go of perfectionism and gives themselves permission to connect to their true selves and live authentically. And we hope you enjoy our interview with Bianca. 

Welcome Bianca to the podcast. Uh, yeah, this is your first time on the podcast, even though you’ve been in both of our summits. So

Bianca Hughes: it is. I’m super excited. This is the first time I’ve actually talked to the both of you together.

JoAnn Crohn: it is. It

Bianca Hughes: So I’m excited.

Brie Tucker: crazy how that can be because JoAnn and I don’t live far from each other. Like I, we originally met back in the day cause our daughters went to school together and we were both doing like kindergarten art masterpiece together. But and then I moved, so then I moved a whole, like going from what?

Three minutes to your house to 20 minutes from your house. And then JoAnn moved and now she lives like seven minutes from me. So. We’re super close, but we don’t get to do this like in person thing. I’m actually in the upstairs of her house right now

JoAnn Crohn: Yep. She’s in my guest room. Cause she has no internet at her house. Yes.

Brie Tucker: So, the internet decided to play peekaboo for the last two days. And I’m like, no, no, no,

JoAnn Crohn: little Easter egg for our No Guilt Mom podcast listeners, because there’s another interview we just did where we talk about this too, so you can see the timeline of how we record our interviews,

Bianca Hughes: yeah. There’s always something, always something with some technological in it. It’s always something.

JoAnn Crohn: Always, which really, really like is a great segue into what we’re talking about with you, which is perfectionism, because you can’t control the things around you. You can’t like, control technology, of course. So like, how did you get into really focusing on helping women with perfectionism and getting over that?

Bianca Hughes: Um, the honest story,

JoAnn Crohn: Yes. I want to hear the honest

Brie Tucker: 100 percent honest story. They’re the best ones. Yeah.

Bianca Hughes: you know, I’m like, okay, I really want to get into a niche and I was like, hi, I’ve always wanted to work with men cause I’d done a lot of work with women and a lot of, in a lot of different ways. So,I felt like for me personally, and just spiritually that God was like, Well, do you know, work with the perfectionism like women like you and I’m like, I don’t want to do that.

I don’t want to work with men. I don’t, I don’t want to do, I don’t want to look at myself in the mirror sometimes. I don’t want to be reminded of where I come from. I don’t want to do that. And so I had a bit of a tantrum. I’m like, no, no. And then I’m like, okay, well maybe because I realized. They were the ones who I enjoyed talking to the most.

I really connected, it was really easy. So, after a bit of a tantrum, I like to say, I just just surrendered and it was like, well, who better not to help them? why not help them? If it’s also something that I have dealt with and as on my journey, I see it’s still something that you have to work through. So it helped in that aspect. So.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, I feel like it’s so hard when you go to helping people, cause you see it like as this altruistic thing. You’re like, I want to go work in here and this just doesn’t affect me whatsoever. And you think you’re doing this wonderful, cause I, I’m speaking from experience. You’re thinking you’re doing this wonderful thing, but then, You’re drawn back to your own struggles that you really have to fight through.

And that’s typically where you can do your best work because I see it like on my end, I know the thought process that goes behind like anxiety and mom guilt. And I can really like know it because I experienced it and I experienced it on a daily basis. And I’m guessing that you feel the same way about perfectionism.

Bianca Hughes: Absolutely. Absolutely. When it kicks in, when it’s like, all right, this is what you’re dealing with, at this time. And you’re like, Ooh, why hasn’t it gone nowhere? But, but you forget that you’ve learned, you can recognize it quicker. It doesn’t last as long. It’s not as intense. So you’re like, Oh, okay. after you have a little bit of a tantrum and frustration, you’re like, Oh, okay. I remember what to do now. So yeah. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: Where has perfectionism shown up, recently in your life?

Bianca Hughes: Cool. That was a good question. Ooh! Where has perfectionism shown up? Oh, okay, well that’s easy, shall I say. In overall, in general, I just come back from a three month sabbatical. So, you know, this thing of like my word for this year is going with the flow. Well, if you go with the flow, you got to look at all the resistance.

And I think the biggest place that there were so many different places I had resistance, but the one in particular I’ll share is when I went to a Buddhism silent retreat for seven nights. So it was a lot of meditation. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: Seven nights of silence, you’re saying. Seven. Yeah.

Brie Tucker: you know that. I’d be like seven D seconds in. I’d be like, okay, it’s awkward here. Who wants to

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. Yeah.

Brie Tucker: Go on, sorry. 

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. So by the time I, I did that, when you’re doing the meditation, you’re paying a lot of attention to your thoughts and your feelings. And the number one thought was Control. Really? Like how, what control was

Bianca Hughes: Wishing, wishing that things hadn’t happened. Wishing I’d done something differently, trying to get a different outcome, in that regard.

And that was when I really noticed, oh, you like control. you know, control. You’re attached to the outcome. And that’s the other thing too, the perfectionism. That’s specifically why I went to the Buzism. To help on that piece of detachment. Because there’s a huge focus on attaching to the outcome. How we think it should look. realistic expectations. So I really, and you have to think this is like eight to nine hours of meditation and you’re realizing how much the control is there. Yep.

JoAnn Crohn: How much, yeah, being that present with my thoughts for that long, I think would be terrifying. I mean you read those studies about like people who their phones are taken away And they’re like given the choice of whether to be bored or shock themselves and they choose shocking themselves

Brie Tucker: not read that.

JoAnn Crohn: They choose shocking themselves, like many participants do that just because it’s really hard to sit with your own thoughts and process it. 

Brie Tucker: Okay, what happened on that retreat if you talked? I’m curious. Did they come over and just

JoAnn Crohn: Brie wants to know consequences.

Bianca Hughes: Okay. So it was like, uh, you know, you would go certain places to meditate or you could meditate where you was like different rooms, or, and this was in Thailand, so you could have the outside in different rooms and then you stayed with people as well in, in a house. And so you might say, Pass me something or something like that.

And, I did talk to the person I saw every day. So it was like 20 minutes. but they would just tell you to be quiet if you did, you know, I ain’t gonna lie, I did talk a couple of times. However, however, however, um, cause I had move rooms and the girl that I started with, we connected. So we might talk a little bit like, if you’re eating lunch or something like that. However, when I did talk or she talked to me. I actually noticed I didn’t want to talk anymore.

Brie Tucker: something inside of you was like, 

Bianca Hughes: Yeah. Yeah. 

Brie Tucker: supposed to be engaging in this.

Bianca Hughes: no, it was, no, it wasn’t that I wasn’t meant to be doing it. It’s, I didn’t want to do it because the noise. and the talking was disruptive. And you, once you get quiet and silent, you realize how noisy the world is. And I kind of liked it when it was getting silent and I was getting more and more connected to myself and enjoying that piece.And so I just was like, I don’t, I don’t I just enjoy being with myself.

JoAnn Crohn: I experience that on a daily basis. I don’t want people talking.

Bianca Hughes: Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: does,

Brie Tucker: for during the podcast. That

Bianca Hughes: for, well, except for during the podcast because this is Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: of the misconception about being introverted or wanting to be silent. Is that, Oh, you don’t care about people. You don’t like to interact with people. And I’m like, that’s not true. I am a very curious person when it comes to connecting with people and I want to get to know people and I love people. But also, like you said, Bianca, the noise really gets to be distracting.

So much so that if I’m trying to process something, like if the noise, if my kids are right here asking me, like I become irritable because I can’t. Follow my train of thought anymore that I’m thinking about. So, yeah, I was wondering, is it kind of like that? Is that what you experienced?

Bianca Hughes: Yeah, absolutely. And you’re just like, and I think Also, it felt so good just to be so connected to myself. And after a while, even though you have the thoughts of control and anxiety, you begin to get through to the other thoughts and like, Oh wow, I didn’t know that about myself or, Oh, this feels good. And so because I’m enjoying that and it was bringing a lot of joy, it was like, yeah, I don’t really want to think I want to be more present with who I, with me, with myself.

JoAnn Crohn: I just wanted to be more present. I think that’s a great, it’s a great thing to get into, especially when you’re diving into the roots of perfectionism. And I want to hear,all about perfectionism or right after this break. So we’re talking about this idea to you mentioned you like control and it’s like a perceived control and being attached to the outcomes. Is there anything else that really drives perfectionism other than those two things?

Bianca Hughes: I would say those are probably things to identify as signs. But the actual driving force is, so when we talk about thinking about the definition which is evolved. I started off with this definition of it’s a consistent and exhausting cycle of trying to be enough, which I still believe in. But it’s also this other new definition of, perfectionism is more about trying to live up to the beliefs and expectations of somebody else. Look at, Look at,

Brie’s face, like, yeah. And so that’s why we feel like we’re not enough. That’s why we’re in this constant cycle because it’s not our expectations. It’s not who we’re meant to be. It’s not what we desire. And so ultimately, cause we’re wired to connect,and as humans, We are really trying to avoid this sense of disconnection, this feeling of rejection and this failure. So those are the really the biggest roots, the fear of rejection and a fear of being a failure. Those are the ultimate roots and that’s what all this perfectionism is a lot of avoidance of those things.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. And I, I totally agree with it. I see it every day, in my life, I see it in my kids as well. And something like I’ve noticed is that, yes, we are trying to live up to the expectations of someone else, but also like we may have totally misjudged the expectations of someone else as well.

And we’re holding ourselves to this ideal, this kind of made up thing, That no one’s ever gonna reach nor does anyone expect us to reach and yet we keep beating ourselves up about it. So like What what could we do Bianca to get out of what I see is just this cycle

Brie Tucker: Yeah. This like downward spiral of this should, I should, should, should, should, and I’m not, not, not, not, not.

JoAnn Crohn: Mm hmm

Bianca Hughes: Yes, I think you said it well is So I always start with the awareness. that’s where I’m always going to start with, the awareness of the shifts, the awareness of the feelings, and the behaviors that are no longer serving us, that are keeping us in the spiral, that’s keeping us stuck, that we’re trying to do the same thing over and over again, and we’re still not achieving this expectation or this outcome. So it doesn’t even start with a fix. Because also, you know, we’re not people, we’re not here to be fixed. We’re not a car.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah,

Bianca Hughes: we’re not a problem, we’re not a problem to be solved. How though, all of my people that come in, a lot of amazing women, high achievers, doing so well. They’re like, yes, I’m so used to fixing it. We’re like, no. and so I think in that awareness is the first step. thing because we don’t pay attention to our thoughts all the time. We are such in a rush. We’re not paying attention to our feelings. We don’t pay attention to our body, the responses, or we tend to push them down, reject them, ignore them, cover them up with busyness, with drugs, with alcohol, with sex, whatever the case may be. But once we begin to become aware without judgment. So yeah, I am saying shit a lot. Oh my God, I shouldn’t be saying shit. No, I am saying shit a lot. Okay, just that simple awareness, just that simple acknowledgement and everyone’s like, well, I need more no, I’m not giving you anything else because No

Brie Tucker: Little

Bianca Hughes: hard to do what I just said is really hard to do So if I sit here, I know everyone wants the next step

Brie Tucker: your clients are like, give me more than that.

Bianca Hughes: And, and I’m

Brie Tucker: No, I

JoAnn Crohn: it’s funny, Bianca, to be totally honest, you say you’re not to be fixed and I hear you and still I’m like, but we could fix this. Like it’s almost like this little voice comes from the back of my mind. It’s no, but we can, JoAnn. We can. Like

Bianca Hughes: yes. And then it’s yeah. But then it’s a paying attention to that voice. Like, well, what voices is that? Like we begin to explore that. Yeah. Whose voice is that? Who is really saying that? And you can begin, that explanation. I know there’s a lot of people, like you said, listening to me, like, no, I need more, no, this is not possible. Oh, she doesn’t know what she’s talking about, but I’m like. Well, you’ve tried everything else and it’s not working, so why not just try it. You have nothing to lose.

JoAnn Crohn: It’s so funny because like I have gone into those explorations about whose voice is it and I can’t damn figure it out like I can’t like I don’t I’ve asked myself because it’s not my parents voice because my parents never said that to me although maybe they did with the high achieving things but I almost wonder like if it’s society’s voice about like how I was raised.

As a woman, like we just had this great guest on who wrote a book about teenage girls and I connected with it so much because it talks about how teenage girls have so much power and it’s really trampled on by society because they’re told to be humble and be nice and sweet. Smile and make things good.

And I almost wonder, like, if part of the voice comes from our social conditioning as women to like, be the caretakers, don’t complain, don’t do anything, make things right. And there’s good emotions and there’s bad emotions and you should have good

Brie Tucker: happy, right? The people pleaser could be a part of that, I would think. Like The whole But we can fix it! 

Bianca Hughes: Yeah, absolutely. The people pleasing is huge. And to say, yes, it could be your parents, it could be society, right? And I think one of the biggest things that gets more into us, one of the big things we don’t always think about is the images. So when you think about the magazines, when you think about the movies, when you think about the TV shows, when you think about when you listen to songs and the picture that it, because we think in images, we don’t think in words. So when you think about the images, it plays that’s why I’m not a fan of, The fairy tales, because I’m like, what is this, 

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, 

Bianca Hughes: happily ever after, like what it, but they get ingrained in, ingrained in us and we are taught to seek validation. This is one of the things I’ve really discovered more about myself on this sabbatical is that I was like, I’m great at boundaries.

I can say no. What is this about this people, please? And I’m so much better. But what I realized is that I had been brought up to seek validation about myself, my sense of self,is it, is, am I okay from other people

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. The judgment of other people.

Bianca Hughes: and the other situations. And like you said, especially as a marker, as a woman, um, you know, married kids,

JoAnn Crohn: Mm hmm.

Bianca Hughes: all of that done by a certain age. And if we’re not living up to that, then yeah. So there is all this pressure also from society to have this, way of living, a way of being that I don’t know who made it up. Like, I 

JoAnn Crohn: don’t know who it was the people in control. 

Brie Tucker: But whoever made it up, they really did a great job sharing that story. Because we all heard it over and over.

Bianca Hughes: Isn’t it, isn’t it so? I’ve been watching, Downton Abbey again and like my eyes were different. I still think it’s so funny, but my just really honed in on the image. And, when the dad was angry, when, when, you know, She slept with this person or that person you wasn’t meant to and how you had to keep up this image and Presentation that way with these people and I’m like, oh my gosh, this has been passed down for the ages and no one’s ever questioned it and so then it becomes our Belief and our way of living and our decision making and when we don’t live up to that we feel like we’re inadequate and a failure

JoAnn Crohn: no, like I when you said images like the first image that came to my mind was I mean, I grew up in the nineties watching MTV spring break and it’s Mandy Moore with her like stick thin body smiling on MTV spring break outside with the sunglasses. And it comes up so readily for me as this is the ideal, and if I’m not this, then I need to work harder and I need to fix it to make sure I’m like this.

So, I thought that was a really interesting exercise because I, I wasn’t expecting that to pop up. and I wanna. Explore more about this connection between perfectionism and also people pleasing right after 

this break. so we were talking about perfectionism and especially how like we get our Like ideas about what’s perfect from society. And I thought it was so interesting how you mentioned Downton Abbey and this image that you had to project. Cause it’s also like the same time period close by it, like Bridgerton where they always had to be accompanied by an older person so that there was no question of illicit affairs or anything like that.

And it’s always been protecting this image. Image of women. And I, that probably leads to this way that we become perfectionists because it’s like women were always supposed to be quote unquote, perfect. And if not, you wouldn’t be able to get married or live because your husband was your source of income.

Bianca Hughes: Right.

JoAnn Crohn: It’s totally passed down from that. So like knowing these images that we see Bianca and knowing that we’re all trying to be perfect. When it comes to pleasing other people, is there a connection between perfectionism and people pleasing?

Bianca Hughes: Absolutely. the connection I talked about is this, first of all, it’s, I want to make everybody like me.

Brie Tucker: Mm hmm. 

Bianca Hughes: Right. Because that’s where I get my source of value. That’s where I get my source of validation. So I become agreeable. I overextend my boundaries. I have a hard time saying no, or I might go back on it. Cause I’m, I said no, but now I feel guilty. So I feel like I’ve done something wrong and I want that person to like me. And so I’m going to go back on the boundary. Right. And the other thing is this seeking validation and affirmation to let someone know we’re okay. I’ll give you a really great example. It’s the first time I’m sharing this publicly.

JoAnn Crohn: Ooh! Ooh! Tell us.

Bianca Hughes: yes, so I was having a conversation with someone and they asked me this question, we were talking about dating and, I’m single and wanting to date and have kids and all this and it just Has not happened yet.and so they asked me when was my last serious or, committed relationship. And I sat there and I thought about it and this is an honest answer. And I said, Oh, since I haven’t really had one since I’ve been in Atlanta and I’ve been in Atlanta for 18 years and I started to feel teary.

So when I came off the phone, I sat there and I’m like, okay, why am I crying? What is this about? Where is this all coming from? And I know like this is different for everyone. People call it intuition, God. And I just heard this, if you were a man, would this matter?

Brie Tucker: Yep.

JoAnn Crohn: Yep. True.

Bianca Hughes: Would it matter that you hadn’t been in a committed relationship for however long? And I’m like, 

JoAnn Crohn: no, They’d be like, you’re a player. Smart

Bianca Hughes: no, right? And so instantly, I began to realize this belief of If I’ve had this, I’m married, I have kids, this brings me this validation. This is this right. And so we get into like relationships and things like that, because we want to have this sense of validation, this sense of I’m okay, and please everyone with this image, and making everybody else happy.

And I sat there and I said, you know what? I’m going to own my story because I’ve met people that have liked me or I haven’t liked them and maybe it’s not a line, timing, location, what the case may be. So it’s not like I’ve had, not had any great experiences. This is just my story and I’m going to own my story and walk with my story and it may not be what the world expects, but I’m going to stop trying to, because what you do is you sometimes settle or accept things you don’t really want because you’re trying to please and get this done. Image, of what it really looks like to get this sense of validation.

JoAnn Crohn: Yes. And like we’ve been taught and it’s been like ingrained in us. There’s something called, have you heard of the Bechdel test? It’s B E C H. So the Bechdel test is, this test that’s given to movies and it’s to measure representation of women in film and cinema. And you pass the Bechdel test.

If a movie has three things, one, they have a woman as a main character to, the women talk about something other than a man. And I’m forgetting what three is right now, but it’s basically like really easy things to pass. And only 50 percent of movies pass that test. That’s I mean only half and so when you look at that and how like Women are portrayed in our media.

I know it’s real sad And now i’m like i’m looking for this other question because it’s like a really really simple Question, but you can go see bechteltest. com and it’ll give you like all of the movies That pass it. Okay. Wait, it has to have i’m. Sorry number one It has to have at least two women in it who don’t Two, talk to each other.

And three, it’s about something besides a man. That’s how you pass it! And so when we’re given this representation that our whole life is really about men and that’s all women are concerned about, perfectionism and people pleasing seem like the natural byproduct.

Bianca Hughes: Exactly. to please everyone that I’m a woman. I’m like, I already know I am like, what do you want me to prove?

JoAnn Crohn: yeah. It’s it’s unbelievable. By the way, Dune Part 2 passes the Bechdel test.

Brie Tucker: not part one? Not part one? Or does

JoAnn Crohn: I don’t know. Well, it has some, I could tell you the ones that, don’t pass. Uncut Gems doesn’t pass it. Back to the Future does not pass it.Barbie, of course, passes it. Let’s see the other ones. Recent Air does not pass it. That Matt Damon Ben Affleck movie. Barbie. I’m looking for other ones like I recognize. Oppenheimer doesn’t pass it. 

Brie Tucker: I 

JoAnn Crohn: Super Mario Brothers movie doesn’t pass it. Something that we’re showing to kids. So yeah. Yeah, isn’t it fascinating? Yeah

Bianca Hughes: And so that’s a lot of the work that I’m doing is dismantling those beliefs and those images and being like, well, what’s really true for you to help people align with their truth and their authentic self versus everything that we have believed and we make the decisions about and what that is.

And how it makes us view and feel about ourselves. So once you change the belief that now my belief is, well, that’s not where my value is to be in a committed relationship, like that’s no, once you uproot that, you’re like, Oh my God, I feel so free. what am I going to do next?

Brie Tucker: It’s Once you’re able to shed the shoulds.

JoAnn Crohn: Yes, exactly. It has been fascinating as always talking with you. You bring such great insight to our conversations and I always have so much fun. The time passes like that. what right now is coming up for you that you’re excited about?

Bianca Hughes: Oh, that’s a really good question. I’m just continuing to be excited about the flow. Like I said, I’ve just been on a three month. And I’ve only been like, as I’m talking to you today, I’ve been back two weeks.so I’m just excited to see how that continues, where I’ll be next.

Brie Tucker: I would think that’d be a big readjustment coming back from that.

Bianca Hughes: Absolutely. It

JoAnn Crohn: think so too. Well, 

Brie Tucker: glad you’re here.

JoAnn Crohn: Thank you so much. Yeah. And we will talk to you soon.

 Brie Tucker: So, okay, so on this episode, we talked with Bianca about how there’s all these messages that we hear that are given to us about how we need to be perfect and people pleasing and all that. And all I gotta say is, as much as I, I loved growing up in the 80s and I loved my John Hughes films, John Hughes ruined my life.

JoAnn Crohn: Okay.

Brie Tucker: That man made me think that, you could change any, things are going to just magically fall into place, you can make everybody happy in an hour and a half,

JoAnn Crohn: The guy would fall for you, for being your quirky little self.

Brie Tucker: Yeah, you could take the person that is hurt and damaged and you could just love them and mold them enough into things that will make it better and also that like your worth is tied into what those other people do think of you because even though I and I don’t know I hope that like Breakfast club people don’t come back to get me but it’s just It teaches you that it is so important what other people think of you and I just yeah and that you’ve got to check off Those boxes

JoAnn Crohn: And how many people, how many women wanted to reform a bad boy? Like they’re like, Oh, he’s bad now, but I can change him.

Brie Tucker: Ah, yeah, he may have like devil tattoos all over his body, but I can make it work

JoAnn Crohn: You know what today’s generation does? Like teenagers, they’re like red flag. That’s

Brie Tucker: Yeah, I know right Thank God they’re so healthy now. Like I do feel like that is one thing that trauma that our generation went through a being told that we could be, we had to be quiet and put together and please everybody. I get as women, our role is to make everybody happy. The glue that holds everything together.

That’s what we were. And that we had certain things that we had to check off on the list of like Bianca talked about in the episode, being married, having kids. if you don’t check those boxes, then there’s something wrong with you.

JoAnn Crohn: Mm hmm.

Brie Tucker: Thank God that our, that the generation of kids that we are bringing up are like, no, that’s not my story. I don’t know where you’re coming from on that red flag right there.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, it’s so interesting because we still see that up here for us today and like social media just for our Generation and age group in particular and we’re talking about like Millennials and Gen Xers where you see this fight back against like women Portraying themselves in a non like feminine way.

So for example, I’m going to get into politics here is truly a like outside look at it, but, there’s a lot of talk recently about Kristi Noem. I’m not sure if I’m pronouncing your name, right. She’s a, she’s the governor of, I think, South Carolina. like, if you want to hit me on something, hit me on my facts on that, because that might not be correct.

but, like she went through a. Very pretty, a pretty drastic physical transformation recently, where before she had like really short hair, not much makeup,basically our interpretation of what like being intelligent and being a woman leader was, we can’t look a certain way else people won’t take us seriously kind of thing. she has. Transformed into, long hair extensions, curly, lots of makeup on her face. Like when you look at pictures, it looks completely like. I mean, if you’re, if you’re pulling them up right now,

Brie Tucker: I’m going to, because I don’t

JoAnn Crohn: it’s a complete transformation. I didn’t know it either. And apparently she recently came into, and this is record actually airing a month later than they were recording.

So it may not even be an issue anymore. But, she did this like Instagram kind of real advertising, a person who fixed her teeth out of state. Her state was all up in arms because she went to Texas and she’s from South Carolina. They’re like, why didn’t you go to a doctor in South Carolina to fix your teeth?

Like all these things. But the idea is, at least the opinion piece I was writing is she is in the running to be Trump’s running mate. And so she turned herself into a woman who is typically. In that orbit and that picture of femininity that is typically shown

Brie Tucker: Oh. I’m looking this up online and I’m seeing it

JoAnn Crohn: yeah, isn’t it interesting? It’s so fascinating because we’re getting hit with this messaging today and especially now in this political race, like that to be a woman, you need to show that you are feminine, that you are, have makeup, that you have, that you’re non threatening to the men around you. So it’s interesting.

Brie Tucker: South 

JoAnn Crohn: it there. 

Brie Tucker: She’s a South

JoAnn Crohn: South Dakota, South Dakota. I will not say same thing. I will not say same thing. I will keep my Arizona elitism right here. South Dakota is different than South Carolina. Yes. South Dakota.

Brie Tucker: It was still the South. there aren’t too many of them. So. Yeah. Yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: allow that for my own ignorance. Yes. Dakota.

Brie Tucker: but yeah, that is so so true like that it is all about It definitely feels like she is trying to conform to something for sure there. So

JoAnn Crohn: a strategy there. It’s a strategy. I am sure it is well thought out. It’s a well thought out political 

Brie Tucker: I feel icky about that.

JoAnn Crohn: I know. I know. Yeah, I feel icky about it as well. And you see all these pictures of what you should be as a woman, and that right there is a really great example of what they’re going for.

Brie Tucker: know tying it back to Bianca made a really good statement. We are not a car to be fixed

JoAnn Crohn: No!

Brie Tucker: right? So, going through and changing yourself just to get the, and that, that’s the thing. There’d be no problem if you’re going through and you’re changing yourself because you’re thinking about it and you’re like, this is not my authentic self.

a way that I visually have done that, and you’ll shake your head, yep, totally. It’s like for me, I have always wanted to have colored hair, like a brightly colored hair and anytime that I don’t, I’m not being my, my, my true self. cause I’m like, that’s me. I’ve always wanted to do that, but I never did because I felt like it was unprofessional.

People would think that I was cuckoo crazy cocoa puffs and that I didn’t know what I was talking about because who has pink hair? and. Once I started doing, I didn’t do that until I got divorced and I did go a little crazy. Like I, I even remember going into like divorce court and my divorce attorney, he’d be going like, really teal hair. That’s how we’re playing it today. And I’m all

JoAnn Crohn: What’s wrong with it?

Brie Tucker: wrong with this? doing it for yourself and being true to yourself, going through a transformation like that all for that. But when you’re doing it, because you’re clearly trying to get the approval of somebody else. Especially when it’s somebody else and 

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. But I will criticize Kristi Noem for this. I criticize really the society that we’re in for this. Like, she wouldn’t even have to do this if, she’s totally right. She’s actually right. If she wants this, that’s what she has to do. She is right. but it sucks. 

Brie Tucker: That is the, the umed up part that you have to go through and make that kind of a change to fit into the mold that somebody wants you in. So we are here to tell you that perfectionism, that voice in your head that’s telling you that you can fix it and that you should fix it and that you should be doing this and you should be doing that and that you’re letting people down because you’re not meeting that expectation. Voice is bullcrap.

JoAnn Crohn: It is. And it’s better just to bring it from the subconscious into the conscious so we know exactly what we’re dealing with in that situation. So until next time, share this episode with whoever you feel needs it, who is struggling with perfectionism. Give them a little light at the end of the perfectionist tunnel. And until next time, remember, the best mom’s a happy mom. Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later.

Brie Tucker: Thanks for stopping by.