Successful Co-Parenting Strategies for Secure Kids Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

Aurisha Smolarski: I always like to say it takes one person to change a dynamic. You know, especially in a co-parenting one, once we can understand what we’re doing, we can lead conversations and respond instead of react, 

JoAnn Crohn: Welcome to the no guilt mom podcast. I am your host JoAnn Crohn joined here by the lovely Brie Tucker. 

Brie Tucker: Why, hello, hello everybody, how are you?

JoAnn Crohn: We have a fantastic conversation for you today with, Aurisha Smolarski about co-parenting and co-parenting techniques. And this is something that we see a lot of our members are a balanced community dealing with and Bri has personal experience with as well. 

Brie Tucker: Yes, yes, so I think most people know, but I don’t always talk about it, that I am divorced, seven years divorced now, two kids, we do a 50 50 split, and, my co-parent and I do have different parenting strategies that we utilize and also different ways that we communicate. So we do have some struggles. We do have struggles.

JoAnn Crohn: Yep, and in this conversation, we talk about the different ways that people may communicate based on their attachment style and just to give you a heads up, I hate attachment theory so much with a passion and you’ll hear me like resist it a lot in this interview

Brie Tucker: Yeah. What is it about 

JoAnn Crohn: I like it puts all the shame on moms. I feel like it puts all the responsibility for the negative behaviors on your caregivers where it’s So much more like it’s so complicated. There are environmental factors. There are, of course, genetic factors deal with how you communicate. There’s your schooling environment with how you communicate.

There’s all of these things. And, it’s just, when we start talking about attachment theory, I have this well of rage, bubbling up inside me anytime I’m like, but it’s not the mom’s fault. So you’ll hear that in the interview and, look forward to that one, 

Brie Tucker: But you did say it’s about the adults that were around you in your life that create the attachment theory. So that’s not just your parents, it’s your teachers. It’s the adults that were consistent in your life and how. 

JoAnn Crohn: get it. Hearing that it just makes me want to fight back more that it’s the moms. it’s my feelings about the situation that like, anytime I hear it, it come, it comes in and I 

Brie Tucker: you’re are a lot other factors. 

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, there are so many great things in this episode, including the attachment theory stuff, which I guess you’ll, you’ll hear it.

It’s fine. But, umAurishaha Smolarski, she’s a licensed marriage and family therapist specializing in working with couples, co-parents, and individuals. she’s also a co-parenting coach and a mediator, and she’s the author of a brand new book out this month, cooperative co-parenting for secure kids, the attachment theory guide to raising kids into homes. So we hope you enjoy our interview with Aurisha. 

Aurisha Smolarski: You guys look fabulous.

Brie Tucker: ha! 

JoAnn Crohn: You look fabulous too.

Aurisha Smolarski: Thanks.

JoAnn Crohn: Welcome to the podcast, Aurisha. We’re, we’re excited to dig into this and to dig into co-parenting and especially that communication that is necessary during co-parenting. And you have a book that has just been recently released, Cooperative Co-Parenting for Secure Kids, the Attachment Theory Guide to Raising Kids in Two Homes. Can you tell us a little bit about your personal story and what led you to? Writing this and working in this field.

Aurisha Smolarski: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I’ve been a therapist now for 12 plus years working with Co parents and individuals and couples and helping them navigate different stages of their relationships I’m also a co-parenting coach and I am also a mediator and I’ve been now divorced and co-parenting for about six years.

And at the beginning of our co-parenting journey, it just was a mess, you know, it was full of conflict and tension. And I could see that my daughter was. It’s not doing great, you know? and I was in this emotional fog, you know, there was anxiety and sadness and anger and fear, fear about what was going to happen to me in the future, like being alone.

and also fears about what was, hurting my kid and how she would be affected by it. And then there was that shame of what does this mean about me? Here I am a relationship therapist and my relationship. Has not succeeded. So what does that mean about me? So I was struggling with all of these emotions and it wasn’t until I got that wake up call from my daughter. Um, I remember as if it were yesterday, walking into the kitchen and there she was like looking down and she had a little tear coming down her cheek and I just knelt down in front of her. And I was like, What’s up, baby. And she looked up at me and was like, I feel all alone in the woods. 

And I just was like floored. I’m like okay, we need to do something. And I knew I couldn’t count on my co-parent to make changes. So I had to look towards myself. And so of course I went to the internet and I was like, I need help. I need books on how to be in a co-parenting relationship because I knew that, you know, a co-parenting relationship still is just as valid as a marriage and dating.

And I found that there really wasn’t a lot of information on how there was information on what to do and what not to do, but not how, and as a relationship therapist, I was like, I need tools. And so I put on my. My therapist had, and I was like, let me apply what I know about relationships and attachment theory to my co-parenting relationship. Cause now the focus was just on parenting together, not on, you know, being romantic together. And so, the parameters shifted a little bit, but I started applying these relationship principles to our co-parenting relationship and actually started working. 

We moved from conflict to cooperation. And my daughter, you know, felt the difference and she got back to her happy and thriving self. And, you know, I got some really great feedback from my mom friends and they’re like, you know, what’s your secret? So I decided to, write it all down and, you know, I was very thankful to New Harbinger for picking up the idea.

And so I’ve been writing this book now for the last year and a half and it’s finally launched this week. So it’s very exciting. you know, in this book, I hope to help co-parents along their journey as well. And you know, this is divorce month, so it’s perfect that it’s out now 

JoAnn Crohn: January is divorce month. oh man. 

Aurisha Smolarski: it’s divorce 

JoAnn Crohn: Start the year off. Wow. 

Aurisha Smolarski: exactly. And so we want to start off the co-parenting journey right. And so my hope is to help co-parents. Understand their emotional landscape, understand their attachment style so they can actually be more intentional in how they interact and so they can communicate better so that their child can actually thrive and not take on the burdens of the divorce because that’s what we all want. We want our kids to do well. 

Brie Tucker: So I love that. Two things I have to say about that story. First of all, when I got divorced, my kids were in, I want to say my oldest was in fourth grade. My youngest was in third and my son, my oldest said the exact same thing to me. I don’t remember if he said lost in the woods, but it was something about I’m drowning, I’m alone, no one’s here. And it just, it. Just killed me because again, like I was like, I can’t control what’s happening in half of your life. And our divorce was very sudden and it was shocking for all of us. I remember even when we told our kids, they were like, you’re kidding, right? Like you’re joking. This is funny. And so that’s interesting. I wonder how many other people that their kids report that kind of same thing. Oh my

Aurisha Smolarski: And it’s really a matter of listening to your kids. I think our kids tell us so much of what they need, and, you know, it’s about getting out of our own fog of emotions, because, yeah, we’re going through it, just you know, you were, I was, it’s like, and really tuning into our kids and what they need, because they do tell us.

Brie Tucker: And then, yeah, they do. 

JoAnn Crohn: there was something Aurisha that you said in there that I’ve heard a lot of people say, is that I can’t trust my co-parent to do this. And in your book, you talk a lot about communication patterns, and identifying these communication patterns, seeing what yours are and seeing what your co-parents are. So let’s take a little time to go through those. You say there’s three types, and the first one is avoidant communication patterns. What is that?

Aurisha Smolarski: Yeah. So before we get into the actual attachment style patterns, I like to give a little background on what attachment theory is so people get it if that’s okay. Yes. and I always like to say it takes one person to change a dynamic. You know, especially in a co-parenting one, the way once we can understand what we’re doing, we can lead conversations and respond instead of react, which is the key to all this.

So even if your co-parents not on board, you can do so much on your own. so yeah, so our attachment styles come on board early on, as soon as we’re born, basically, you know, cause, human children have an innate biological drive to seek protection and connection and proximity and care from their caregivers who are their primary attachment figures.

And probably about the age of two or three, you can start to notice the behaviors and the patterns. and so depending on how available and how reliable and consistent the caregiver was to meet the child’s needs, the child is gonna then create, you know, different coping mechanisms or adaptive strategies that then follow them.

Through their lives into adulthood. So then we, as adults take these and bring them into our romantic relationships. and because our romantic partner, our partners become our new attachment figures. And then when we divorce that person who once held the place of attachment figure. It is now no longer our person and it’s very confusing.

And the exact thing that causes the attachment system to go into high gear is the separation is the distress is the, you know, is the conflict. 

And so all of our attachment needs and traumas and old wounds are like at an all time high. And here it’s confusing. Cause our bodies are like, you used to be my person and now you’re not.

So what do I do? So the ways that we communicate. directly, you know, show up like our patterns show up in the ways that we communicate. the three attachment styles. So now I’ll go into it, right? so you have avoidant, anxious, ambivalent, and secure. So I’ll start with avoidant, as you mentioned.

So avoidant, if you grew up, with a caregiver who wasn’t very attuned to your emotional needs, maybe they, Miss them. Maybe you spent a lot of time alone. You learned that your emotions and that your needs were not valid. And in order to be seen as worthy, you had to maybe perform in a certain way. Maybe there were high expectations. you know, you learned how to keep yourself safe by being self reliant. So people with, you know, avoidant attachment styles may be very, you know, addicted to their own independence and distant. And so the ways they communicate may not be very much at all. You know, they tend to not like text very often.

If you text them, they may not respond or. Forget they need a lot of time to process. they tend to get very sensitive to criticism. So if they hear something that sounds like you’re doing it wrong or someone’s telling them what to do, they’re going to shut down. They’re not going to respond or they’ll give you the hard hell no.

Even if they might agree. Because you just told them what to do they’re going to shut down right and so that of course isn’t great for collaborative conversations and they don’t actually tend to collaborate very well because they are so into their own independence improving their own sort of. Self reliance.

So then you have the person with ambivalent attachment style who may have had a caregiver who was more inconsistent, sometimes available, sometimes not. Their caregiver may have been preoccupied with their own emotions. And so this kid learned to over exaggerate their needs or their emotions as a way of getting things.

End 1 seen and heard and their needs met. or they learn to caretake, you know, if I tend to my mom, maybe she’ll be present with me and then I’ll be able to feel loved. So as adults, these people tend to, you know, have more issues with, abandonment. They need a lot of connection. So they’re going to send out a lot of texts, a lot of emails.

They want a lot of information. they tend to use a lot of Urgency in their tone and need a lot of external validation and comforting from outside sources. So you can see already that the avoidant Yeah,

Brie Tucker: I’m like, I, for people that are, I just quietly mouthed, that’s me.

JoAnn Crohn: I have a lot of guilt though going through my head right now though, because like when I hear avoidant, I’m like, I’m avoidant a little bit, but I’m aware I’m avoidant. and I look and I’m like, did I have to perform for my parents? like there was this high achievement standard that I think like most kids had to deal with the eighties and nineties.

but I don’t really attribute that to my parents. Cause like my sister grew up in the same household and like, she’s. I don’t think she’s avoiding at all. In fact, I would think she’s ambivalent. And then I look at my kids and I’m like, you’re just describing my kids right there. They’re over exaggerators and they’re like, they’re driving me insane.

Aurisha Smolarski: Well that’s different. Kids have emotions and they have needs, what I mean is you know, over exaggerating. It has a way to get someone’s attention if the person is not responding, right? So they may just have needs and you’re like, I’m here. I hear you. What do you need kiddo? And they’re still having big needs and big emotions.

All that’s fine. And again, I want to say there are superpowers and there are challenges to every attachment style. There’s nothing wrong. Like I tend towards more ambivalent as well. You know, if I’m not hearing a text. back from my partner. I feel it, you know, and I have to calm myself down and say, everything’s fine.

JoAnn Crohn: that’s my, um, he’s dead on the side of the road and had a car accident. Kind of like if I don’t get a text from my partner, I mean, it’s like, so it’s attributed to so many different things. 

Brie Tucker: but at the same time if I had to say a superpower to avoidant is that they are not the ones that are gonna go crazy if they don’t hear from you. They are the ones that are gonna be able to be like, meh, that sucks and move right on. We’re over here like, 

Aurisha Smolarski: on

Brie Tucker: I fix 

Aurisha Smolarski: quickly. 

Brie Tucker: it’s,

Aurisha Smolarski: And that shows up in breakups. They tend to move on very quickly and they seem fine. They’re the ones that are seeing cool and collected, you know, in mediation or, and meanwhile, the person with ambivalence, ambivalent attachment style tends to, you know, they show their emotions in their sleep.

So, and that. Also, and they’re good collaborators actually, because they talk a lot and they want to process right there in the moment. So that’s a superpower, right? But then when you put it together, sometimes they trigger each other. So we want to get to secure communication. 

JoAnn Crohn: I, really want to hear about what secure communication is, and we’re gonna hear about it right after this break. So we’ve talked about avoided and ambivalent communication patterns so far. Tell us what secure communication pattern is.

Aurisha Smolarski: So people with secure attachment styles had caregivers who were attuned and reliable and available when you expressed a need when you were in distress, when you were feeling sad or angry, your parent was there. And so you learned, as an adult, then you can communicate your needs. pretty clearly. you don’t use like manipulation or other strategies as a means of getting seen and heard.

You hold boundaries pretty well. You collaborate really well. You can hold different people’s perspectives. You still have feelings. You still, you know, get angry. You still, you know, because emotions are all okay and they’re important and necessary. So it’s more about how you know, people with secure attachment tend to just be able to acknowledge their own and express them pretty well.

and so The secure communication strategy that I talk about in the book actually is based upon what both, you know, the insecure people, the folks with insecure attachment styles, both need so that you can actually create more positive outcomes, everybody, because that’s what we want. Because I find that people with insecure attachment styles actually create the outcome that they don’t want to have happen.

Brie Tucker: right? 

JoAnn Crohn: And I think being aware, of those things is good because even when you said like, I have to be honest, when you said the secure communication patterns, I’m like, well, that’s how I want to be. And with my kids and I’m not doing that right now, Aurisha, like I feel like so much guilt and now I’m like fear based and thinking like, oh my gosh, my kids are ambivalent communication patterns and I need to go in and fix this.

and so if you’re thinking that right now, when you’re hearing this podcast, I am with you and I am thinking though. Like I’m thinking where this is going and tell me if I’m wrong that there is a way that you can just acknowledge your communication pattern because the other thing I’m really struggling with is that my communication pattern is deal solely to my primary caregiver, which is like my mom and which is most moms. And I feel like it’s put so much pressure. On moms to know that like they could raise their kids like this and it’s, it’s kind of all their fault.  

Aurisha Smolarski: Oh, gosh, no. I think it’s really important to actually give dads a little bit more responsibility here. Yes, the often we are the primary caregivers because we’re there present. But the fact that Dad is not present. Also has effect, on the kids. So, and how the dad talks to their kids when they are there, when they come home from work, when, they are putting their kids to bed, how attuned they are in the moment on the everyday, even if it’s 10 minutes a day, because in the co-parenting world, we stress this a lot. It’s not about quantity. It’s about quality. And so, you know, I want to say that everything’s on a continuum and that your attachment style can change and that it’s just more about creating awareness so that we can get better at being more secure in our lives with our kids and with our. You know, co-parents and with our partners, you know, none of us are perfect.

Like I don’t, I’m all over it. Sometimes I’m more avoidance. Sometimes I’m more anxious and people and I know this stuff really well and I see it, I check in with myself, I take a breath and you know, use that opportunity to repair. If I tend to be a little, you know, let’s say I snap it at my kid, I’m like, Oh God, let me repair. That’s secure being, being able to acknowledge yourself and where you might go off a little, you know, and then repair. That’s the best kind of teachings that a child can. Receive is that’s what we need in a relationship. So all of this again is not about being perfect It’s about bringing self awareness in so that we can be more intentional in how we

Brie Tucker: And it feels like a lot of the challenges that come in with your trying, at least from my experience, when you’re trying to co-parent, is when you have those different attachment styles and you’re trying to communicate, but the other person isn’t communicating the same way as you. And so it’s like sitting up all those red flags and that’s where we need help figuring out how to have those discussions.When someone’s a completely different communi, a completely different attachment, completely different communication style, like how do you not feel disrespected when your avoidant co-parent just doesn’t talk to you? Doesn’t answer

Aurisha Smolarski: Yeah, we don’t personalize like you’re like he’s avoidant or she’s avoidant So by labeling it like my co-parents more avoidant, I’m more anxious and so when I wouldn’t get those texts where I’d get the, shut down first, I check in with myself and say, okay, did I just say something that probably landed as criticism?

So you have to always check in with yourself first. Oh yeah, I did. That’s why he slammed the door and walked out. So what can I do on my end? To not create that outcome that, you know, made me angry then because he just slammed the door, walked out. so that’s how you can start to intentionally create a shift in the dynamic.

So here’s the framework that I’d like to share, that can help set people up for more success is you got to think about, you know, being respectful and being, you know, cordial. And that really starts off with acknowledgements. I hear you. It’s the magic three words. I hear you. I use this one all the time.

My co-parent sends out whatever that sounds like, you know, telling me what to do or something that like just triggers me. I hear you. And then I pause or you know, thanks for, you know, making all that lunch for kiddo. Can you make sure that, you know, we talk about what he actually likes to eat by saying, thanks for making lunch that minimizes. The defensive response. So it’s how you lead conversations. So acknowledgements really minimizes defensiveness and it lets people feel seen and heard immediately. So that’s the first step. You know, the second, tip is Being really brief and concise. Avoidance love this. They don’t like all the emails that, you know, 

Brie Tucker: don’t like hearing the they don’t like the paragraph description of why this happened.

Aurisha Smolarski: Right, so they’re going to shut down immediately and not respond, which is going to then trigger the ambivalent who’s like, Where are you? How come you’re not responding? So if you keep your texts and emails and even your words brief. Concise third tip is stick to one point at a time and only provide the relevant information.

The who, what, where, when, and why. That’s going to help the ambivalent who needs information and who loves details feel like they have it all in one place. And it’s going to help the avoidant not get all those emails, which feels overwhelming and they shut down. So that also is a really great frame.

JoAnn Crohn: I love those two because as an avoidant person, like I tend to skew more toward avoidant definitely hearing this. And as an avoidant person, it’s good to hear those things that you need the information in one place and you’re not being a horrible person by not responding to the text. It’s just that your brain is completely overwhelmed and. It provides more understanding when you know your person, your partner’s communication style, for sure. And we’re going to get to your third tip right after this break. Okay. So you had two tips in terms of co-parenting discussions. It was being very concise and acknowledging the feelings and saying, I hear you. What is your third tip?

Aurisha Smolarski: So yes, the third tip is, asking questions. So asking questions and being curious instead of making assumptions and criticisms or using blamey language or telling anyone what to do is going to immediately make your co-parent feel. Validated feel like, Oh, my opinion matters. it creates that sense of inclusion and moves you directly into more collaborative conversations.

So this is, this one’s great for both the avoidant and the ambivalent, because you know, the avoidant likes to feel like that their opinion matters that their voice matters for their sense of worthiness. And the ambivalent likes to be included all the time and be part of it. And You know, so this one’s a really great one.

Ask questions. Assumptions are like lead you into defensive land. It’s never turns out well. And then the last one is really about boundaries. I call it Roger that. So acknowledge receipt of an email. Even if you cannot respond immediately, you can send a thumbs up, you know, got it. I’ll let you know by.

Friday 5 PM. So just really being boundaries of what and when you can respond by. And when you send out a text, make sure you’re very clear about when you need information by this way, you’re not going to send out lots of texts like, Hey, I haven’t heard from you. I haven’t heard from you because you’ve just already, if you’re an avoidance said, I can’t right now, I’ll let you know by, and that really holds that respectful and boundary frame and allows you to work together a little bit better.

JoAnn Crohn: Those are great, simple tips that I could see people just putting into their daily communication with their co-parent that I could, that would make a huge, huge difference, And I know there’s so much more information in your book, Cooperative Co-Parenting for Secure Kids that was just released. obviously you’re excited about that. What else are you excited about right now, Aurisha?

Aurisha Smolarski: Well, next week is my book launch party, so I’m looking forward to speaking with people in person and, you know, signing books and talking to people about the book and answering questions. So that’s, of course, right at the forefront of my brain, so I’m very excited about that. 

JoAnn Crohn: That is an exciting thing going on. And where can people find you?

Aurisha Smolarski: So you can go to my Instagram, which is cooperative co-parenting. That’s my main one. Cooperative co-parenting. You can find me on my website, Aurishasmolarski. com. and you can email me or DM me and I’m happy to talk with anyone and, you know, consult with you and who knows, maybe we’ll work together in the future.

Brie Tucker: Love that. I love that. You know, it’s needed, because again, co-parenting, like you said, there’s not a lot of how to do it. Like you said, you can find a million lists that say don’t do this and do that, and it’s fantastic. Great. Awesome. I just checked off the don’t do on that’s on this list this week. how do I fix it? Oh, yeah, nobody can help me. So I’ve I loved your book, and I’m so happy. I wish it was there seven years ago.

Aurisha Smolarski: Oh, well, 

JoAnn Crohn: thank you so much for joining us. This has been a pleasure.

Aurisha Smolarski: Thank you so much for having me. It really was wonderful speaking to you both.

JoAnn Crohn: So in terms of co-parenting tips, Brie, was anything new to you throughout the whole conversation? Um, you know, I don’t give enough credit to the fact that I know my co-parent has a completely different attachment style and I know I just said attachment style, but that also includes communication style, right? Yeah, it’s a communication style. We can communication

Brie Tucker: what we’ll say, like, he communicates in a completely different way than I do. It was hard when we were married, it is really hard when you’re divorced. So, that is what causes I think like 99 percent of my frustration and I, and actually it’s come to the point where I like avoid communication as much as possible because I’m just like, mm, it’s going to be a 

JoAnn Crohn: taxing. yeah, it’s an exhausting situation. I love the tips that Aurisha gave in this episode about how to really communicate with your co-parent effectively because I feel like you can use these tips in any relationship and they’ll help you phenomenally. Like the first one was acknowledge. Just acknowledge the feelings and acknowledge that you hear them. And I think we use that with our kids all the time too. Be like, I hear you’re upset. I totally get you’re frustrated right now. I use those phrases all the time.

Brie Tucker: and she also said something too at the very beginning that I’ve heard you say many times over too. It’s like starting with the positive, like, thank you. thank you for what you did. even if what they did to you was a huge dumpster fire, it’s a thank you for

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah.

Brie Tucker: something. I should, I think our example was like, thank you for making that delicious lunch for our child. Could we perhaps talk about foods that they like to eat? I’m just like, so like you said, like you’re thanking them and then acknowledging where they’re coming from. that is huge. That is huge. Like I, I have tried really hard to use a lot of the, I hear you. I hope that comes across positively. I’m not sure how that comes across via text.

JoAnn Crohn: It’s I hear you. I hear what you’re saying. I understand that. I think it’s just like the summarization part of it too, because when you summarize back what you hear, then it gives the other person a chance to correct, or it gives the other person a chance to be like, okay, they get that I’m upset.

They that I. I, I want this and it goes hand in hand with that second tip of be concise and that’s something that I know I, I do with my husband. Cause he really likes the concise things. He gets overwhelmed just like I do. And I’m like, I need this. because what we tend to do is over explain ourselves.

Brie Tucker: No! Never! I’ll give you a 15 minute explanation for why I’m late.

JoAnn Crohn: Well, it’s interesting because a lot of things like I have seen when, people do over explain is sometimes they talk the other person out of what they want. You know what I mean? Not let me give you an example. say like, one person comes in and is like, I want pizza for dinner.

And the person they’re talking to is like, Oh, okay, pizza’s fine. thinking in their mind. But then they start explaining, Yeah, I want pizza for dinner because then We had hamburgers last night, And I know you like hamburgers, And since it was your time to have hamburgers last night, Then today I think, We should have pizza this night.

And then this other person’s like, Wait a minute. so we’re taking turns now on who picks dinner? pizza was fine. So it’s The over explaining goes against even, interest in the conversation.

Brie Tucker: it can. It certainly can. I 

JoAnn Crohn: It’s like, you’ve got the yes already.

Brie Tucker: and I think too it just also like it depends on like the mindset like the more she was talking about so she Talks about be concise and then in that she talked about like relevant information as well. She kind of rolled those two into one that immediately made me go to like, Oh, like an engineer’s brain. just the facts, ma’am. Just the facts. I don’t know why that went 

JoAnn Crohn: That’s 

Brie Tucker: to Southern, but you know, whatever. 

JoAnn Crohn: But it’s also, you need to ask questions too, which she also said, because you can make assumptions all day long for what you think the other person is thinking. usually they’re assumptions are

Brie Tucker: Well, and chances are when you’re dealing with your co-parent, we kind of got divorced for a reason. And, you know, so you might be thinking that they’re wrong a lot. and I’m just here to say that sometimes we over assume that they are the wrong person in the conversation or the wrong person in the situation.

And we need to hear where they’re coming from, what their perspective of is, like why they did what they did. Like you said, and you can’t figure that out if you don’t ask questions. Cause if you immediately go with like, well, it’s because they’re a jerk. That really puts you at a, you’re not going to get far in this conversation.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. no. So

Brie Tucker: I’m trying to be very, very PG in my conversation with this. 

JoAnn Crohn: the inner rage is coming out, you can see it, you can see it, you know it! And then finally, I love the Roger that because I get into conversations just with everybody where it’s like you text someone and then they don’t respond for a while.

I am one of those people who doesn’t respond for a while. And so I’m going to use this in my everyday communication where if somebody texts me and it’s so much information, I’ll just be like, Hey, I, I got this and I’ll respond to it soon.

Brie Tucker: well, okay. First of all, I think that is a thing with our younger kids, like with our teens, they talk about being left unread and stuff. But, I think Roger, that is huge. It’s huge again. So in my personal situation, Like I mentioned in the interview, I am an, ambivalent communicator, that is how I am, like, I need a lot of reassurance, I need, and, and I can tell you, like, I exactly know, like, Oh man, off mic.

We’ll have to have a nice long conversation about the whole like attachment parenting. I, which I know, but like the whole, like how I saw my parents go through different types of attachment. They did different types of parenting with all three of us and how that, but anyway, back to the point is, see, I’m doing it right now. I’m over explaining. 

And then my ex, he’s avoidant. He’s very quiet, concise man, a very few words always has been always will be. And, So, I’ll send something, I hear nothing, it’s crickets, and that is what annoys me and drives me bonkers, and if there was just a Roger that, which I have noticed, key point to my ex that he has been doing that more lately of giving a thumbs up, just acknowledging in some basic form that he got the text. or the email. That’s very helpful. I think it just lets people know, got it. And I like to, I should talk about setting up the parameters and you talked about it just now too, like, got it. we’ll respond to you later. Get back to you by Friday, whatever it is that helps us needy people. I don’t want to say needy, but kind of needy 

JoAnn Crohn: Kind of needy. Well, if you want to learn more about these strategies, definitely go get Aurisha’s book. It is out now. it is called Cooperative Co- Parenting for Secure Kids, the Attachment Theory Guide to Raising Kids into Homes. we have the link for it in the show notes. Down below and until next time the best mom is a happy mom. Take care of you. I’ll talk to you later

Brie Tucker: Thanks for stopping by.