Podcast Episode 290: From Mood Swings to Milestones: 4 Tips to Supporting Your Child Through Modern Puberty Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

Vanessa Bennett: You are creating trust and connection and lines of communication with your kid. And conversations about puberty are not always about the anatomical body parts, the physiology. Conversations during this time are about friendship and loneliness and love and respect and joy and sadness and laughter,

JoAnn Crohn: Welcome to the no guilt mom podcast. I’m your host, JoAnn Crohn, joined by the delightful Brie Tucker.

Brie Tucker: hello, hello, everybody. How are you?

JoAnn Crohn: Hey, if you’re listening to this today and you have a kid who is either in puberty or about to go through puberty, or has gone through puberty. So I think that’s everyone. That’s everyone, Brie. We’ve covered it. Or you know, somebody. who’s gone through puberty.

Brie Tucker: Or, or if you just know somebody whose kids have started the slamming door phase, as we talk about in the, in the episode, this episode is for you.

JoAnn Crohn: We just learned that that’s the first sign of puberty. Exactly. you are going to dig this. It is so fun talking to our guests today. Dr.Cara Notterson is a pediatrician and New York Times bestselling author of 10 books, including the care and keeping of you series. And Vanessa Crowell Bennett is a national bestselling author and puberty educator. Together. They are two of the most trusted voices On puberty, they co host the puberty podcast and their bestselling book This is so awkward, Modern puberty explained became an instant hit featured on dozens of media outlets. And, we hope you enjoy our conversation because we enjoyed our conversation.

Brie Tucker: It was fantabulous. I had so many questions.

JoAnn Crohn: we hope you enjoy our conversation with Vanessa and Cara.

So Let’s dig in to this talk about puberty, because I know through previous interviews that we have done, with experts ranging from, I know you know, Dr. Lisa DeMoore Dr. Cheryl Ziegler, , there is a lot of talk about puberty starting earlier and earlier and earlier. Can you tell us a little bit about that and, like, how has puberty changed from when, like, we were kids and going through it to what our kids are going through right now?

Cara Natterson: Yeah, so this is the part of the conversation where there’s usually an audible gasp because puberty looks nothing like it looked when we all went through it. So it starts on average two to three years sooner than it did. the average age for a girl to go through puberty in this country, and frankly, it’s This is, we’re not an outlier, okay?

This is global phenomenon, puberty happening earlier. But girls on average are between eight and nine, boys on average are between nine and ten when they enter puberty. What do we mean by enter puberty? We mean they show the physical or emotional signs of circulating sex hormones. Physically those look like breast buds on girls, you know, those breast buds that poke out of absolutely everything.

Vanessa likes to say you could be wearing a down coat and those breast buds are poking Yeah. in boys, it’s penile and testicular growth, which we can get into because this is not as noticeable, right? In all kids, probably the earliest sign of puberty, I attribute this quote to Louise Greenspan, who is an amazing endocrinologist and researcher.

The first sign of puberty is generally a slamming door. So when you start seeing mood swings in your tween, they are probably Trying to manage the sex hormones that are coursing through their body and through their brains and changing the way they feel. And here’s something else that’s different about puberty. It starts earlier and it lasts much longer, like two to three times longer. It is stretching like taffy. So when we went through, it was like a three to four year sprint. And now. It’s a decade.

Brie Tucker: they have anything as to why?

Cara Natterson: So Louise, who we adore, she wrote a book called The New Puberty about 10 years ago, but it’s still probably, one of the best resources out there. She and other researchers are looking to identify the cause.

Brie Tucker: Yeah.

Cara Natterson: one knows. No one knows what it’s going to boil down to is that there are going to be some common denominator chemicals that we generally refer to as endocrine disruptors.

These are chemicals that mess with the way your hormones, that’s endocrine hormone, mess with the way your hormones work in your body. there are going to be some endocrine disruptors that are identified that are in everything we eat and drink and breathe and put into and onto our bodies and all that.

And that’s going to be one big driver. Okay. We do know also, and Vanessa is very passionate about this point, so I’ll pass the baton, that chronic stress is a very clear driver of earlier puberty. Vanessa, you want to, take that one?

Vanessa Bennett: Yeah, I mean, it’s a hard thing to lay on people because everyone is so, you know, stressed out kids and adults. but we do know that elevated levels of cortisol in the body, which is the physical manifestation of chronic stress, those hormones can actually tip into the sex hormones that get puberty up and running.

So kids living Under chronic stress, kids who experience adverse childhood experiences like trauma and abuse and food and housing insecurity who live closer to crime, who live in poverty those kids are at risk for earlier puberty, partially because of the chemical reality in their bodies of elevated levels of cortisol.

We also know that for all of us living under chronic stress over sustained periods of time isn’t good for anyone, no matter their age, no matter their stage of puberty. And then there’s the whole kind of high achieving culture risk and the chronic stress that kids under tremendous athletic academic pressure.

And I don’t know if you guys have had Jenny Wallace on the podcast,

JoAnn Crohn: I want her. I read the book. Yes.

Vanessa Bennett: We’ll connect you to her. She’s great. And,

JoAnn Crohn: Oh, yeah.

Vanessa Bennett: We’re full service. She looks at all of the data and research that’s been done out there about the chronic stress related to high achieving and then layer on top of it, we live in a world. With climate change. We have a totally bananas presidential election that we’re in the run up to.

Brie Tucker: I’m having stress dreams every day. Stress dreams. And I can guarantee you the election is part of it.

Vanessa Bennett: it is. I mean, I’ve never read so much escapist literature as I have over the last six months and it’s only going to get worse.

Cara Natterson: She’s trying to save herself from going back into

Brie Tucker: my God.

Cara Natterson: a

Vanessa Bennett: know I’m managing my managing or

Brie Tucker: going to be a second wave. Well, wait a minute. that’s perimenopause and menopause, which is a whole nother episode,

Vanessa Bennett: Yes. Yes.

JoAnn Crohn: It’s funny because like I read escapist literature at night, but my escapist literature is thrillers. So real life actually doesn’t look so bad compared to the escapist.Nobody’s killing anybody. No, it’s like kidnapping. No,

Brie Tucker: in the trunk of a

JoAnn Crohn: they’re just a little crazy.

Vanessa Bennett: right. No one can’t remember if they did kill someone or if they were just too drunk to remember if they 

JoAnn Crohn: Oh my gosh. Have you read, you’ve read The Girl on the Train, I’m guessing. Yes. Yes.

Vanessa Bennett: And I have a new one that I lent my husband cause I was like, you got to read something escapist and I gave him a thriller actually that Emily Oster recommended in her newsletter called the winner. I think. Yeah. Well, I’ll, I’ll book review it for you, JoAnn, on That’s

JoAnn Crohn: Yes. Yes. Please. The full service coming. And I, I interrupted you actually. So we didn’t get to actually say what Jennifer Wallace’s book was and it was Never

Vanessa Bennett: Oh, Jenny’s. Yeah. Jenny’s book is Never Enough. It came out almost exactly a year ago and it looks at this high achievement culture and the impact on kids. And she cites lots and lots of excellent research and data done by researchers around the country. So, it’s definitely a good read.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. I want to get a little bit into those causes of puberty, the high achievement, the climate change, the worry, the stress, right after this. so talking about high achievement is like one of my favorite things, because I think it’s such a issue today in today’s culture, my daughter goes to a high achieving high school and. And I am constantly fighting messages of high achievement about what you need to do to get into college, what classes you need to take to get into college.

There’s a huge like push. And I’m sure that other schools are doing this to kids too, about this thing called like an AP medallion, or I’m not sure exactly what it is, but they’re taking like these really stressful courses just to get this little seal on their diploma, which I see as meaning absolutely nothing whatsoever. And like taking all the fun out of their lives.

Brie Tucker: I can’t even tell you where my high school diploma is.

JoAnn Crohn: exactly. So like, since we know high achievement is an issue and these other stress things are an issue. Is there anything that parents can do to kind of soften the blows at home so that they won’t affect our kids so much and won’t like cause these huge impacts to their process? Interesting.

Cara Natterson: promise I will tie them together. So one is, Vanessa and I did a book tour in the fall and winter when our book, This Is So Awkward came out and we spoke in front of 55 schools. And one of the things that I was most surprised by, I had never heard schools self identify as high achieving.

In my life, I’d never heard that phrase and we heard it a number of times on the book tour. And I think, so I want to hold that thought in one hand, right? Just the branding of education and what these kids are exposed to in terms of how schools are branding and marketing themselves. I think this is an important piece to hold.

Okay. Now I want to hold in another hand. Good thing I only have two hands cause I’m only going to do two things. I want to talk for a second about Jonathan Haidt’s book. I was with a group of pediatricians the other night, a group of pediatricians and Vanessa, who is an honorary pediatrician at this point.

And we were talking about Jonathan Haidt’s book and I said, I wondered if he was talking about the wrong generation, that the real anxious generation were the parents. And this other pediatrician said, That is so funny. I saw the title of his book and I thought, finally, someone wrote a book about the anxiety that parents carry and how it is translating into this thing that is really weighing down their kids. So I now want to bring those two threads together because the very first thing that we can do as parents. Trusted adults for any kid. So you don’t have to be a parent. You can be a parent, grandparent, coach, mentor, teacher, healthcare provider. I don’t care what your role is, if you love and care about a tween or a teen or a 20 something, and you actually.

Look at your behavior. You look at your language. Look at all the things that are influencing you around the world. And then you clock it and you actively engage in conversation with that kid about why those pressures do not translate for you. Why you don’t care about that AP badge. It’s not just that you don’t care, which by the way, Hallelujah, that you don’t care,

JoAnn Crohn: I don’t care.

Cara Natterson: But it’s saying to a kid, I just want you to understand, like, I think it’s so great that you’re working so hard. Here’s why I don’t care. Let’s be in conversation. I want to hear why you care and I want to share with you why I don’t. Why is that important? Because if you come at it from the perspective that I’m not going to validate the crazy thing that you’re doing because you’re trying to get a good Housekeeping seal of approval on your homework, right? Which feels

JoAnn Crohn: That’s exactly what it is.

Cara Natterson: right? if you come at it like that, what are they going to do? They just shut down. They’re going to fight and shut down, right? So if you validate and Vanessa is queen validating kids, when she speaks to them, like she’s the best validator I know. It doesn’t mean she agrees with everything, but you validate.

Vanessa Bennett: you also want to make sure they’re like taking care of themselves. I mean, part of it is this stress causes

Brie Tucker: you dumb stuff?

Vanessa Bennett: not to take care. So are they getting enough sleep? Are they eating enough and the kinds of foods that are going to nourish their bodies? Are they moving their bodies enough and yet not so much that they’re actually at risk of injury or overuse?

Like are they showering? Are they washing their hair? Right? We think of all the things that fall by the wayside in terms of people taking care of themselves and the four pillars of health. We actually just did a podcast episode about them because sometimes we get so far down the path of like meta high level concepts when talking to kids that we forget about the really basic things they need to do to take care of themselves.

And if you put those forward, like, Hey, you got to get at least eight hours of sleep a night, all of a sudden they have to make different choices throughout the day in terms of how they spend their day. I believe, and this is a process I’ve been through with my own kids, is sometimes you have to help them take things off their plate.

So that may mean having them take fewer APs. That may mean having them play for a different club sports team or move dance companies or join a different drama troupe, whatever it is, because if they cannot feel well, then something needs to change and they need our help sifting through what choices they’re making.

JoAnn Crohn: They do absolutely need our help. And I know Brie wants to something along these lines because she has experienced this with her

Brie Tucker: Yeah. Yeah. So like everything you’re saying is exactly my son’s junior year of high school. so being divorced, there is a certain degree of like autonomy. I try to make sure that my kids have, because again, my ex is very much my ex. We are polar opposites when it comes to parenting. So I try to give them.

choices and let them be more in control of what’s going on in their life, because obviously some things they can’t anyways, last year. It was nothing but AP and honors classes. We also have something called zero hour in our district. I don’t know if every district does that. That’s where they have a choice to take an extra class before school even starts. So that meant that meant, my son was at school at 6 15 AM.

Vanessa Bennett: Oh

Cara Natterson: It’s now illegal in California. That actually was a thing and it’s so like, you know, they, they say Arizona is like mini California. I’m I’ll embrace that. Yeah. Bring that over. so he had zero hours when he’d get to school at like 615 and then he had afterschool band practice and clubs and a job. And I was trying so hard to be like, listen, anybody that knew me in the last year, my son was a jerk.

Brie Tucker: He was a jerk all year long, just a jerk, jerk, jerk. And he was, and you could see it. He was exhausted. Like I found out he was like staying up all night sometimes because like, you don’t know that’s happening. They shut off their lights. You go to bed, they go to bed. And the next thing you know, you find out later, Oh no, he was up to 4 AM.

And then got an hour of sleep and then went on to school again. It was so hard seeing that happen. And first of all, a not having control of his schedule 24, seven, because every other week he went to his dad’s house and his dad was like, I deal with it my way, leave my way alone. so I couldn’t say like, I’m going to.

Make you quit this because when he would go to dad’s house, that was not the conversation. Right. So all I could do is just be like, think about how your body feels. and I’m like, and just talking about like, you know, I know that you don’t think this, cause this is the other thing about teen thinking at that stage.

Right. They think that they can do anything and that their body can bounce back. And I’m like, I get it. It works right now. But by the end of the school year, if you keep this up, suddenly your memory is not going to work the way it used to.

JoAnn Crohn: so here’s the thing though, in teen thinking that I want your advice on because like I, the sleep issue is very, very real. I know in California too, they also made a law that schools can’t start, before a specific time. And I know, I love that. I love that because my daughter is sleep is a hard thing.

Like obviously teens don’t produce melatonin the same time we do. And she is up way later than I am. Sometimes I’m sometimes not even going to bed until like 1 or 2 AM. And it’s her doing schoolwork. It’s not her on a phone. It’s not her like watching things. She is like doing her schoolwork. And when I talk to her about these things, she’s like, well, mom, I just don’t have a choice right now.

This is just how my life is right now. Completely different kid during the summer, like so much happier, so much lighter. And then the school year hits and she doesn’t think she has a choice. What, what can we do

Cara Natterson: so let’s just talk about the science behind it for one second because you mentioned all the contributing factors and it’s really important. To recognize them. So number one, melatonin is the natural chemical we make that tells our body to wind down and go to sleep. Okay, babies, young kids, and us, we all start churning out melatonin around 738, 830, we’re ready to go to bed.

Teenagers and young adults, but especially teenagers. That melatonin starts releasing later and later and later into the night, and they are legit, not tired until 11, 1130, 12, 1230, right? So that is biology. Then you layer on top of it, the amount of work they have, And the good, hardworking students who are diligent and doing the thing, and they’re not on their phone, but they’re on a laptop, they’re on a screen, they’re doing the thing that they need to do, their brain is being stimulated.

And then we haven’t even mentioned the third, which is they deserve to be and need to be social creatures. And the way they engage and when they engage is everything. After school ends and after their after school stuff is done and after their homework is done, which is in the middle of the freaking night.

So all of these things ladder up to interfere with sleep because it’s not like their life starts at 10

o’clock the next morning. It doesn’t right. So what do you do? I’ll tell you what we do. We educate kids. That’s what we do. We teach them what sleep does. And I’ll just give you like the quick top line.

Sleep controls your mood. It resets your mood. Sleep is the time you file memories. So pulling an all nighter before a test, you will not do as well on the test as actually going to bed. That’s when all the memories are filed in accessible places in your brain. Sleep is when you grow, okay, now your daughter’s six foot one, so, I mean, there’s that,

Brie Tucker: she’d be like, I can, I can let that go.

Cara Natterson: Uh huh. Yes,

JoAnn Crohn: Forget this. Taylor Swift is five 11. I need to shrink.

Cara Natterson: exactly, for the other 99%, that is a real motivator to get them into bed. And the fourth is sleep controls our metabolism. It changes the way we burn through energy. The next day, when we do not get enough sleep, our body is cued to take all the calories that we take in the next day and store them as fat because one day we may need it because this body is not taking good care of me.

And that is where we see dramatic shifts in metabolism. When you educate kids about that, then kids become very invested in in their own sleep and they can retrain their brains to release melatonin earlier. It takes a lot of time and practice, but they can engage in wind down rituals that will help cue their brain to want to go to bed earlier.

Vanessa Bennett: And JoAnn, I also think it’s getting to something Brie said earlier, which is teaching her the skills to clock when she feels good and lighter and when she doesn’t, and figuring out ways to get sort of like micro doses of that. Lightness into her week. So like it’s summer. She’s probably outside. She’s probably moving her body.

She’s probably with friends, whatever it is she doesn’t have hours and hours of homework. And so a conversation that sounds like, Hey, I’ve noticed in the summers, your mood is different. You smile more, you laugh more. I love seeing this side of you. I wish we could have more of that side of you for your sake during the year.

What are some small things we could do during the week that it gives you a little bit of a taste of summer throughout the year? And just, you’re noticing. You’re not judging the pressure she feels. You’re not adding to the pressure by telling her she needs to like change everything, but you are Helping her with the self reflection of saying I feel good at this time.

I don’t feel so great at this time I went through the same process with my daughter who was like, I have to do everything I can I have to take every class I can I have to join every team I can and And I finally said, it’s too much and you have to choose. And so how do we get to a decision point? Let’s walk through, let’s do a pros and cons list.

Let’s sit with it. Let’s talk to some older kids who’ve been through this journey before. What was worth it? What wasn’t worth it? older kids are often such amazing advisors because if they’re just out the other side, they’re not you. And they’re incredibly thoughtful because they’ve lived it and they’ve now reflected on the trade offs they made in order to make those choices.

JoAnn Crohn: IL Love that. And the self-reflection piece in engaging her in the self-reflection piece. we do that a lot. It’s been like a very big process. And I think like when we coach moms to do this and if you’re listening to this right now as a listener, It’s easy to think like this is, could be just one thing you do, but this is such a long process as a parent to get through to kids.

And sometimes like conversations I had with my child at like when she was in eighth grade and she’s a junior are now popping up and I’m like, Oh my gosh, you were listening at this. Why is like having an effect then? So if you’re listening right now, like it is a long, long process. But it’s totally worth it in the end, because I think the self reflection, it goes with everything that kids do.

It goes with, you know, their sleep. It goes with monitoring their own screen time use and how they feel when they’re like looking at their devices. And it goes to like their relationships with people as well. And it’s such like, a lot of people, I think, fear puberty. going through puberty with their kids.

but it’s such an interesting change to see kids go through it. Now with girls, I feel like I’m a little more prepared that way. But with boys, I don’t really know what I’m doing. Doing here because there are certain like, you know, body characteristic aspects of it, where I know my son, he would be mortified even at 11, me bringing that up.

Like, I really want my husband ideally in the perfect world to do it. But like, what could moms of boys do who are going through puberty? And we’ll talk about that right after this. So talking about boys when it comes to puberty, what can moms of boys do to really help their sons through it, even if we might not be very comfortable with it

Brie Tucker: Because we’re terrified that all we’re going to do is find crunchy towels and socks and they’re going to ask us about body parts that we don’t have.

Vanessa Bennett: Okay. So I’m going to reframe the question. We will get to crunchy socks and towels, but I want to reframe the question. Instead of thinking about talking to boys through this decade of puberty as, only about the anatomical stuff or only about what comes out of their bodies in various forms think of talking about puberty as just another way of creating connection with your kid.

And so you may not be able to talk to them about what it feels like to have an erection or a wet dream or anything like that. Doesn’t mean you can’t talk to them about that and, car is wonderful at talking about even if you don’t have the equipment, you can have the conversations. But my reframe is.

You are creating trust and connection and lines of communication with your kid. And conversations about puberty are not always about the anatomical body parts, the physiology. Conversations during this time are about. Friendship and loneliness and love and respect and joy and sadness and laughter, lots and lots and lots of laughter.

And sometimes you don’t cover any of the actual specific quote, puberty topics, but you’re just there with your kid and you’re the adult who shows up, who’s available when a question comes up, when there’s an issue, when there’s curiosity. So. If we think of it instead as an opportunity to be in conversation about really anything at all during this decade of life, it feels less intimidating.

So it could be about like, Oh, what are you playing on Xbox right now? Because I am such an idiot when it comes to gaming, but I want to know what you’re playing or who’s on your fantasy football team this week, or Hey, let’s make dinner together because I have this new resume and I think you’re going to really like it.

And then you never know what’s going to come out in the midst of that conversation. That’s actually really valuable and important in your relationship with your kid.

JoAnn Crohn: I love hearing that because I’m so afraid my son is going to become an emotionally unavailable male. Like, and So we have those conversations a lot. we dig in deep to emotions.

Cara Natterson: I want to go here because we have to address the elephant in the room, which is boy’s silence, right? So one of the things that makes you afraid that he is going to become emotionally unavailable is that there’s no data here. I’m just telling you, scientist who’s listening, go study this because someone needs to.

Okay. As testosterone starts to surge around the tween and teen body, their volume knob turns down, and some of them go from being huge talkers to slightly less huge talkers, and some go from being two word answers to grunts.

or nothing at all. And that was mine. It is painful. It is so terrifying because what you think is what you’re seeing is a kid who has no emotional capacity.

That is not what you are seeing. Everything Vanessa just said. Everything Vanessa just said applies to a silent boy. They want to be in conversation. They just have this hormone in their body that is telling them to be internal and to process quietly and to not communicate. Some of them, it’s temperamental.

Some of them, they’re just observers, right? And they’re not big sharers and we gender this and it’s just how they were born. It’s just their personality. So. Here’s what I did, and I actually wrote a book called Decoding Boys about this phenomenon.

Brie Tucker: I’m writing it down right now

Cara Natterson: It’s, I will tell you, this was one of the hardest things I ever managed as a parent. And I know a fair amount about the body and the brain, and this was a steep climb. I used to sit. On the other side of my son’s closed door, and I would say through the door, buddy, I am here. I’m just going to hang out here for about 10 minutes. I’m really interested in what’s going on with you. I’d really like to have a conversation, so I’m going to shut up now, which is hard for me.

If you have not noticed, I’m going to shut up now and just, I’ll be here if you’re interested in talking. And I will say for the, and I didn’t make this up by the way, I had very smart, wise parents who were in my practice years earlier who taught me this. I learned everything I know from smart parents. it took several silent sessions.

before he started to open up. And now he is 19 years old. And we have this thing where when I’m ready to talk about something, I will go in his room and I will lay on his bed and I will just look up at the ceiling and he’s perched somewhere else on a chair or whatever. And we do not make eye contact.

I’m just there and present. And I will start talking to the ceiling. And he will just let it go and start talking to me. So is that his personality? Is that his maleness? I don’t know where one ends and the other begins, but what I can tell you is Vanessa is 1000 percent right. They want to be in these conversations.

We just have to find the key that unlocks the door for each of these individual kids and for boys in general, conversations with their parents, both, but especially. with their moms for whatever reason, tend to get really, really quiet. And it is our job to constantly say, I’m here. I care. I’m interested. I’m not going away. Not to be in their face, but to be present. And it changes everything. Everything. And they eventually emerge out the other side and it is the best feeling ever.

Brie Tucker: fantastic.

JoAnn Crohn: I love that.

Vanessa Bennett: I mean, they come back. There’s this fear that there’s a grief and a loss. And we hear this in every keynote we give. There’s a parent who raises their hand and says, I used to have this loving child who I was so close to, and I feel like I’ve lost him. And they do come back.

So if anyone is listening, who is feeling that grief, who’s feeling that loss They come back, they go through the other end of the stage. And I, they’re so interesting and so funny. And maybe they’re still quiet, but they’re there with you. So don’t worry that they’re never going to come back to you.

Cara Natterson: Can we get to crunchy socks though, Yes. Yes.

Brie Tucker: lot of moms we carry that in silence that shame that we did something wrong and that’s why they’re not talking anymore. I did some, and so I’m not going to tell,

Vanessa Bennett: that we

Brie Tucker: I’m not going to tell anybody that like maybe my best friend at most, but I’m not, it’s not something that we talk about it when we get together for our, you know, mom dinners and chatting with her. Yeah.

Vanessa Bennett: Instagram. You’re looking on Instagram and everyone else is surrounded by their children and everybody looks happy and you’re like, well, my family vacations sucked because everybody was arguing the whole time.

Brie Tucker: yeah, and my son insisted that he did not want to be there no matter what I did.

Vanessa Bennett: that he hated, he hated me and the whole experience and I just blew my vacation budget for the year on a miserable vacation, but it’s only me and no, it’s not only you. It happens to

Brie Tucker: Okay. Now, crunchy socks. Let’s, let’s tackle

JoAnn Crohn: That is, this is something I have not had to even think about yet, so I need to get prepared.

Cara Natterson: Okay. So here’s the deal. There are things that happen with the male body that are unique to the male body. And you got two choices. You can educate yourself and learn about them and talk to your kid about them. Or you could put your head in the sand and pretend they don’t happen. And then when they do happen, you have a kid who is left completely flat footed and has no idea what to do.

Our most viral. Clips on social media or whenever we say words like penis or wet dream, because people, kids are starving for information about what’s normal in their body, what they should expect and how to manage it. So here’s one. Um, Wet dreams happen. They happen sometimes every night, sometimes almost never, sometimes actually never.

And most of the time intermittently and you can’t predict how much and when and where and this and the other. Yeah. They need to know there’s nothing wrong with them. It’s totally normal. It’s completely expected if it happens. It’s completely expected if it doesn’t happen. Oh my gosh, by the way, you can take the sheets off your bed and you can clean them and it’s totally manageable, right? Like there’s no shame. It just is what it is.

JoAnn Crohn: It is what it is. That’s, that is interesting to hear because like, what age do you think we should start talking about? Like, what dreams? Like, how do you introduce this? Mm hmm.

Vanessa Bennett: wet dreams don’t happen at the beginning of male puberty because the testosterone has to be circulating in the body for a couple of years to get the testicles up and running as real factory. So that sperm production happens and ejaculation happens. So it’s not like, it’s not like breast buds, which are a first sign and everyone can see them.

It’s further along in the process. And obviously every kid is going to enter puberty at a different age. And we should have said that there’s averages. But there are early bloomers and late bloomers and people right in the middle. And so I actually find you can do it. I mean, you have an 11 year old JoAnn.

Okay. So I wouldn’t go like straight for wet dreams. Cause there’s some like foundational knowledge, Like, make sure your kid knows the word penis and not just the word, you know, D I C K or

JoAnn Crohn: all of it. I used to be a fifth grade teacher and I had to teach human growth and development. So I’m, I’m pretty comfortable

Vanessa Bennett: So he’s in,

Cara Natterson: Oh,

Brie Tucker: That was funny. Interesting there.

Vanessa Bennett: so he’s in great hands and the way you want to frame it, and this is, I think a great way with any of the tricky topics, not just what dreams, but porn, for example or even sex, which is, you know, Hey, have you ever heard the phrase wet dreams?

I know it’s kind of a funny phrase of them You ever heard that before and they’ll often say like, oh, yes, and he said, do you know what it means? Oh, yes And they say well, how would you describe it? I have no idea So like they feel like they’re supposed to know everything but they don’t actually like they’ve heard it.

It’s in the water like 69 my kid my 11 year old. This is now several years ago use this phrase 69 69 As the punchline to every joke, JoAnn, I’m sure

JoAnn Crohn: Yes.

My kids are doing that too. And I’m like, guys, you don’t know what that means. Do you know what that means? And I told them and they’re like, what? They’re like, this is just, it’s just a funny number, mom. It’s on Tik TOK. They don’t even have Tik TOK. And they’re like, it’s on TOK.

Vanessa Bennett: what you did. You say, Hey, I’m not sure you know what that phrase means because if you did, I’m not sure you’d want to use it. Do you know what it

Brie Tucker: Bride. I don’t think that means what you think it means.

Vanessa Bennett: Yes. Yes. Exactly. Exactly.

JoAnn Crohn: the funniest story for something like that. my son’s friends they all went to a movie, like the moms, we got together, they took him to a movie and then we all met up at like a pizza place afterwards. And they were like talking at the table. And one of his friends was like, Oh yeah, like McGriddle.

And I’m like, That doesn’t, I don’t think that means what you think it means. and I like look at on a Google, I’m like, I’m going to Google that for you right now. And I’m like, Nope, Nope. And I show the other mom and like, they’re like looking at us. They’re like, what does that mean? Like these two 11 year old boys, what does it mean? And I come and I show my son and he reads off the screen and he’s like. Oh no.

Brie Tucker: can I ask what that means? Cause now I feel like I’m out of the loop or can you not talk about it?

JoAnn Crohn: So like McRiddle, it’s a sex act and think of like syrup being like poured over at like, yeah, so, it’s in a public place. And so these boys are learning at it in a public place and you could actually see their expressions when they find out what exactly it means, this phrase that they have been using casually to everyone. And it was such an enlightening experience because like when kids realize it, they’re like, hold on.

Cara Natterson: Okay. What I love about that story is you did not shame them at

all. You were like, right. You’re like vocabulary check. And it’s such a great way into the conversation because what you have showed, not just your child, but every other child who, by the way, given the fact that you were a fifth grade teacher who taught health education, you were going to be this person anyways.

All of those kids are going to come to you and sit around your kitchen table forever and ask you all the questions. Why? Because you just displayed that I’m totally fine with conversation so long as you understand what the heck you’re saying,

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. it’s so interesting though, like when you’re in groups of people, cause one girl wanted to know what it was and I was going to tell her, but her mom was right there and she’s like, no, I don’t want you to know that information.

Vanessa Bennett: important JoAnn, because you know, I will always say to

JoAnn Crohn: No.

Vanessa Bennett: Hey, I’m super comfortable talking about stuff in my house, but I know that my house is different from other people’s houses. What do I have permission to talk about and what would you prefer I send them to you to ask about?

Because it’s not our job. I mean, it is actually all of our jobs to educate people, but it’s not our jobs to educate our viewers. children’s friends. Nobody’s signing up for that. And so, you know, getting permission

Cara Natterson: but you can’t always do it. And so there’s another way through if it’s coming up in the moment. And I seen you do this, Vanessa, and you do it beautifully, which is to say, I’d really love to explain that. I don’t know if your parents are going to be cool with that. So I think you should ask them.

And then frankly, you can backdoor and say to that parent. Listen, just so you know, this came up. I didn’t answer the question. I told them they should talk to you because you don’t, you know, especially as kids get older, you don’t always know the parents. You don’t always have those precursor conversations, right? Uh,

Vanessa Bennett: or

Brie Tucker: not how it went down, I swear.

JoAnn Crohn: It’s interesting because it really the dynamic changes as they get older because like 11 12 year olds they would totally go to their parents for that the teen relationship with parents gets so Tricky where a lot of teens, they don’t feel comfortable going to their own parents. And it just becomes such a, tricky situation as an adult in like one of my daughter’s friends lives.

I want to explain these things to her and yet I, I feel like I need to keep my mouth shut because I know this particular parent. Would not enjoy that. And so it’s almost like I have to educate my daughter so well that if it comes up in conversation with her and the friend, I’m, I’m not responsible

Brie Tucker: Yeah. I mean, like, I was listening to one of your podcast episodes recently about, talking about sex with your kids. And it was like, it’s not like if we don’t tell them, they’re not going to know. They’re going to find it. And it’s probably going to.

Vanessa Bennett: they’re going to find misinformation that

Brie Tucker: And it’s probably gonna be not what you wanted them to know, like, it’s either gonna be completely wrong, or they’re just gonna flat out end up, even, like, watching something that they’re not supposed to be watching, so, like, yeah, it’s, you can try to stick your head in the sand, but it

JoAnn Crohn: It’s a tricky time. Yeah. Well, I, I could talk to you both all day, all day long, because. You’re it’s

Vanessa Bennett: We’ll come back anytime, anytime.

JoAnn Crohn: But we’d love to end on a positive and exciting note. So what is coming up for you that you’re really excited about?

Cara Natterson: We have the same thing coming up the week that this episode is airing. We are moving our children into college. I’m not going to make that Vanessa’s thing, but

Vanessa Bennett: Oh, I was like, what did we both have

Cara Natterson: what do we have? What do we have? Yes. Our seconds are going to college. we’re going to try to get them on our podcast actually to talk about being the It, it’ll sound like this. The

Vanessa Bennett: you could hear a pin drop. And then we, on the work front, what we have coming up is we have soft launched a membership, which has a searchable library of all the puberty content we have ever created. Podcasts, newsletters, Videos and it also has an AI bot where you can ask it any questions and it’s trained on all the books We’ve ever written all the podcast transcripts all the newsletters so you can literally say How do I talk to my son about wet dreams and it will provide you an answer? Scripting further reading further listening more resources to have the

Brie Tucker: wonderful.

Cara Natterson: usually starts with something like, wow, that’s a rough one, but here we go.

JoAnn Crohn: awesome. That’s awesome. Well, thank you guys so, so much for joining us today and we will talk to you soon.

Vanessa Bennett: Thank you for having us

Cara Natterson: you.

JoAnn Crohn: So our conversation, really got into everything regarding puberty, but I want to, like, talk about the most uncomfortable part, the whole dealing with guys in puberty, Bri, like, dealing, dealing with our son. So I have a fun way to do that. Let’s play Would You Rather.

Brie Tucker: Oh, God. All right. Okay.

JoAnn Crohn: you rather find crunchy socks in the corner of your child’s bedroom? Or stumble on to a text message that you don’t want to know about that they’re having with a friend. And I’ll just leave that open. Just think of like your worst case scenario text message.

Brie Tucker: All right. So do I answer or do I not

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, no answer. What would you rather do? What would you rather have?

Brie Tucker: Oh, God. Okay. I could just say From personal experience, having had both, I would say, I guess, all right, I’m gonna, honestly, I’d rather deal with the Crunchy Socks but, but,

JoAnn Crohn: I would rather deal with too because you’re like, oh, okay, like with it with the text message First of all, why are you reading their text? You have to explain that if you have to deal with that even though like

Brie Tucker: guess I would say like, yeah, I guess I would say mine wasn’t a text. Mine was like, I was told something I didn’t want to know. So

JoAnn Crohn: Yes

Brie Tucker: okay, so knowledge is power and also depressing sometimes, but you’re right. You have to explain why you read the text.

JoAnn Crohn: Why you read the text and then how to broach the conversation and then deal with all the emotions from it crunchy socks You’re like laundry basket

Brie Tucker: Right. Right. Okay, okay, okay. So here’s mine then. Alright, I get to do one for you.

JoAnn Crohn: Okay.

Brie Tucker: Would you rather know about something that a friend of yours child is doing that they shouldn’t be doing, right? So like, let’s say in this scenario, your kids are friends and your kid told you something about your friend’s child.

That is we’ll say like, again, puberty related, something that is kind of embarrassing that you’re like, you can’t just like, whatever it is, or would you rather find a bottle of lube in your kid’s bathroom? So one, it’s just an embarrassing thing that you found. Second, you have to decide if we’re going to have an embarrassing conversation with somebody else and try to explain how you found out. So

JoAnn Crohn: good is the friend? Like, is it like you? Or is it like another

Brie Tucker: let’s say it’s a, it’s a friend that you’re not like you cannot talk to this friend about everything. So it’s, it’s someone who’s like a friend, but not a best friend. So you’ve got that certain level of unfamiliarity with them.

JoAnn Crohn: would rather hear that because I probably would not even broach that subject with that person. Honestly. I would just keep it to myself and be like, oh, human nature. Like, wouldn’t even have the embarrassing conversation. I would, I guess like, they’re not a best friend. I don’t know them.

Brie Tucker: I don’t owe them anything!

JoAnn Crohn: No.

Brie Tucker: Okay,

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, definitely that. Definitely that. Because then I could just avoid and deny. Avoid and deny.

Brie Tucker: Oh my god. Alright.

JoAnn Crohn: No. But yeah, it’s tricky though. This was a super fun episode.

Brie Tucker: my gosh, and it went, it was crazy because most of our episodes, like, we tried to keep them close to 30 minutes. This one went long because there was so much to talk about and when we were done, we were like, we have to do another follow up episode because There is so much we could broach about this topic.

I think there are so many questions and I’m really excited about their, membership program. I think that’s awesome. And the,

JoAnn Crohn: all the information.

Brie Tucker: the AI thing they were talking about, how you could just type in there and be like, how do I talk to my kids about, you know, whatever. And they’re like, Whoa, that’s rough. Let’s start with, and then da, da, da, da,

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, well that’s rough. Yeah.

Brie Tucker: It’s,

JoAnn Crohn: That’s pretty much what you have to do

Brie Tucker: think that’s pretty much any conversation about puberty or just in general, the awkward conversations like, so I’m dealing with teens. So we’re in the midst of like the sex conversations. Like, we’re past the birds and the bees to be crystal clear. We’re past that part. And we’re trying to get into the more The embarrassing questions that you don’t typically, that like you and I, our generation did not ask our parents and did not bring up to their parents.

JoAnn Crohn: That we like, read through 17 and Cosmo to like find the answers to these

Brie Tucker: well, I’m just going to tell you like TMI, I had a bladder infection for like over a month when I was at college. Cause I was too embarrassed to tell anybody because I didn’t know what was happening. So it’s like, It’s like, so like we’re into like that level of conversations about like, when this starts to feel like this, or if this happens and like, this is what sex should be like and, what consent is.

And, oh my God, there’s just so much, there’s just so much that I feel like I am completely unprepared for, even though I know I’m prepared more than the average bear,

JoAnn Crohn: yeah. Yeah, I know. And you’re probably actually being brought a lot more topics than the average bear because you have a trusting relationship with your kids.

Brie Tucker: which is both a pro and a con.

JoAnn Crohn: It’s yeah, It brings a fair amount of stress. Like sometimes, you know, how you look at like, as they say this in movies, like the happiest people are the most oblivious because they don’t, they don’t know what’s going on.

And sometimes you’re like, I kind of want to be a happy person and I just don’t want to know what’s going on. But. It always ends up being like a long term thing though because if you’re oblivious I can promise you it’s not going to be happy forever

Brie Tucker: Oh, right. and there’s nothing worse than knowing that your kids are struggling with something and you can’t help them. And, and I think that in this area of the awkwardness of puberty and sex talks and like all the other jazz that comes along with the awkward topics. knowing that your kid can at least come to you when they’re scared or frustrated or something’s confusing is always going to be much more comforting to you than the comfort of being oblivious.

JoAnn Crohn: Exactly. So with that, let’s make our fight against obliviousness. We’re in this fight together. If you’re listening, you know how hard it is. You’ve probably tried some things already, so we’re with you here. And until next time, remember the best mom’s a happy mom. Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later.

Brie Tucker: Thanks for stopping by.