Why We Use Alcohol to Cope with Stress and How to Do “Dry January” Right featuring Casey McGuire Davidson Transcripts

Please note: Transcripts for the No Guilt Mom Podcast were created using AI. As a result, there may be some minor errors.

JoAnn Crohn: Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast. I am your host, JoAnn Crohn, joined here by the lovely Brie Tucker, 

Brie Tucker: Why, hello, hello, everybody. How are you? I would say chilly Brie Tucker today. 

JoAnn Crohn: chilly Brie Tucker. Here we are in January and coming back for the new year and it is, it’s cold. It’s chilly, chilly for us in Arizona anyways. 

Brie Tucker: I got a whole sweatshirt on. It’s very chilly,

JoAnn Crohn: yeah, 

Brie Tucker: funny how chilly isn’t the same in the southwest as it was growing up in the Midwest. 

JoAnn Crohn: yeah, no, it’s totally different definition.

Brie Tucker: yeah, yeah, I’m like, oh, I had to put on a sweatshirt and pants. It’s cold outside.

JoAnn Crohn: It’s cold outside. Well, our episode today, we approach with a little bit of, tentativeness, I would say, because we’re talking about the sober curious movement and giving up alcohol. And there’s so much shame around this issue, particularly for women that, we hope you’ll get a lot out of this. We asked all the questions of our guests.

We challenged a lot of things. and in this episode, you’re going to hear about how, mommy wine culture, how that’s a thing, but we also talk about how that’s a thing used to shame moms and what is the benefits and what is also things to be aware of. So we’re really interested in hearing your views on this.

and I’d like to introduce Casey Maguire Davidson. She’s a life and sobriety coach and the host of the top 100 mental health podcast, the Hello Someday podcast for sober curious women. She helps women who are doing all the things and no guilt moms, you are doing all the things and then coming home and drinking to forget about all the things, been there, change their relationship with alcohol.

Casey has a son who’s 15 and a daughter who’s nine. And we hope you enjoy our conversation with Casey. Welcome Casey to the podcast. I am super excited to talk with you about this because it’s something that I have considered in my own life, but I haven’t quite ventured down. So I’m interested in hearing all the goods from you. so welcome and let’s get started talking about this sober, curious people and this kind of sobriety lifestyle mentality. Yeah. So can you tell us first a little bit about why did you decide to give up drinking? 

Casey McGuire Davidson: Yeah. I mean, I know it’s something that’s really hard to consider doing because in our society, drinking is everywhere. I mean, if you look around at movies, at TV shows, the marketing messages we get,And even mom, wine culture, right? Anything that happens, it’s like, here, have a drink. I was a big drinker in college and it just kind of followed me wherever I went in life.

You know, during my twenties, it was cocktails out at bars. And then I, moved in with my boyfriend, now husband, and it was camping with beers and then dinner parties with all our friends and all the bottles of wine. And I found myself just drinking more and more. Now, I didn’t have anyone tell me that I should stop drinking.

There was no big moment where I was like, Oh my God, this is really gonna hurt my life. But at the same time, I was, waking up at three a. m. With anxiety and being unable to fall back to sleep. I was putting on my eyeliner in the morning and my eyes were sort of watery and bloodshot. I was constantly wanting another glass of wine and trying to make the rules like, okay, I’ll only drink when I’m home or I’ll only drink on the weekends or I’ll only drink when I’m out.

You know, I’ll just have two glasses. I couldn’t stick with it. And so I think that’s what a lot of women are doing now. If you look, it’s January, anywhere around you these days, there are articles, in the New York Times and the Atlantic and the Wall Street Journal and Vogue, even saying the sober curious movement and dry January and how people the rise of non alcoholic beverages.

So the mentality is really shifting where more people are taking a look at how they’re drinking, how much they’re drinking, and whether it’s working Well, in their lives. 

JoAnn Crohn: Well, you had some startling statistics too about what happened during the pandemic and how people dealt with it. it was something what, like 55 percent of women and wine drinking or what were those 

Casey McGuire Davidson: well, what happened during the pandemic is there was actually a 41 percent increase in binge drinking among women, and that’s four or more drinks a night, which is a significant amount. 

Brie Tucker: I was in that statistic. I will tell you right now, cause I was like, whoo, don’t go drive. 

Casey McGuire Davidson: Yeah. And by the way, I was a bottle of wine a night drinker seven nights a week, unless I was trying to. Be quote unquote good or cut back and that is a lot of alcohol to ingest. I’m five foot three and yet no one said anything to me about it. my husband drank, all my friends drank.

It was not unusual to drink a bottle of wine at night or two glasses or three glasses, but you do the really big pours. thing 

Brie Tucker: like, how much more can I fit? Can I fit a little bit more in 

JoAnn Crohn: It’s like it’s only one glass. If you’ve ever watched the Kristen Bell movie on Netflix, the woman across the street from the hot that oh my gosh, she does the best thing on that where it’s filled up to the top and she’s like,

Casey McGuire Davidson: that was me, right? I’m like, God, a bottle is really only three glasses. That’s insane. No, during the pandemic, drinking among mothers of kids under five, it increased 323%. 

JoAnn Crohn: Oh, wow. 

Casey McGuire Davidson: off the charts, 

JoAnn Crohn: it’s insane because I mean it’s Looking at drinking as a way to cope with your present surroundings and when you’re overwhelmed and when you feel like there’s no release and there’s no way that you could actually relax, of course, alcohol becomes the best choice to do that.

Brie Tucker: It’s easy to get ahold of. You could do it at home. just a little bit to chill and it doesn’t necessarily change your demeanor and that’s why.

Casey McGuire Davidson: I mean, one thing I found was that for a lot of moms, their drinking actually takes off after they have kids. Because for me, before I had my kids, I did Pilates, I had guitar lessons, I went hiking with my friends. And once I had kids, I would rush home from work to try to pick up my son at daycare before it closed, get home, then you do dinner, bath, Legos, whatever it is.

And you could actually multitask, you know, you can play Legos while drinking a glass of wine. You can do Candyland for the 17th million time. Or once the kids go to bed, jump back on the computer with wine. And It lets you feel like you’re still claiming adult time. It lets you feel like you’re having a reward and yet what a lot of people don’t talk about is alcohol is actually highly addictive, the substance.

JoAnn Crohn: It is. It is highly addictive. and you build up your tolerance so that you need more and more to get the high that you used to get from one glass. And it’s scary. it’s really scary, how it could go from just one glass to very many, not to say like it will, not to say that I have tread really lightly in this subject because I don’t like being told what to do. I mean, let’s just say that right out. I don’t like being told what to do. 

Brie Tucker: anybody that listens to the podcast knows that. You are your own rebel.

JoAnn Crohn: I am my own rebel. And so anytime somebody comes in with a, Oh, this is the best thing for you because it causes all of these things. I’m immediately internally pushing back against it, but.

what you’re saying is completely true. Alcohol is an addictive substance. And in the terms of my own life, alcoholism runs on my husband’s side of the family. So it is something that has been very present in my own mind and in my own drinking and stuff like that. but yeah, I will still be like, I need I not, I need a glass of wine.

I love. Wine, like it’s a food thing for me. It’s one of those things like you take it and you swirl it around in your mouth and you’re like, those are like chocolatey and hints of whatever. and I. I do stick to one glass of wine. So like, the distinction between having a glass of wine maybe like once or twice a week compared to the bottle of wine, each night.

I want to hear your thoughts on that and we’re going to hear those right after this break. So we’re back and Casey, I want to hear your thoughts about Having the glass of wine once or twice per week versus the bottle of wine each night. is there a difference in that? 

Casey McGuire Davidson: Well, one thing I love about the sober curious movement is that it doesn’t matter how much you drink. In order to explore what your life would look like without it for a period of time. I love approaching it without judgment, but with curiosity and as an experiment. And I think that we all do things every single day that we know are not good for us. And that is totally cool. 

Brie Tucker: As I drank my second coffee in the morning,

Casey McGuire Davidson: Oh my 

JoAnn Crohn: Uh, 

Casey McGuire Davidson: don’t even talk to me about coffee I have a serious, 

JoAnn Crohn: I’m with you there. I’m with you. I 

Casey McGuire Davidson: issue. 

JoAnn Crohn: all the coffee. Yes. 

Casey McGuire Davidson: I’m unwilling to address, but I know people are always well, if you have anxiety, should you be drinking that much coffee? And I’m like, shut your 

JoAnn Crohn: Shut your mouth. Don’t tell me what to do. 

Casey McGuire Davidson: I have nothing in my life. Yeah. 

Brie Tucker: people could see what Brie is doing at the moment.

JoAnn Crohn: Free has a free is itching her nose with her middle finger. Yeah.

Casey McGuire Davidson: one in five American adults are going to take part in dry January this year. It was created because. Well, we want to look at how much alcohol is part of our society. We use it for everything, to celebrate, to decompress, to relax, to make everyday life more exciting, as a ritual, you name it.

And it does impact your body, even if you’re just having one or two glasses. a night. Even a single glass of wine disrupts your sleep by 24%. you don’t realize it, but you’re not getting as quality sleep as you would. Alcohol actually spikes your cortisol, which is your anxiety. system and it depresses the dopamine, which is your happy hormone in your body and your serotonin, which impacts mood regulation. And it doesn’t matter if you have one or two glasses a night, or if you drink a ton, your hangovers will be worse if you have a ton, but 

Brie Tucker: Yeah, as you get older to those hangovers, man, they are just not nice. Yeah. Yeah. They are not nice. I have earned a right to have a glass of wine without having a killer headache and stomach issues the next day, but no, 

Casey McGuire Davidson: Hangovers are the worst when you get older, especially with kids, right? I remember my four year old jumping on the couch and I was like, uh, mom doesn’t feel so good. Can you just take it down a little bit? But the other thing that’s interesting is that when you don’t drink, you have more energy. You have better sleep.

It’s actually really dehydrates you. So your skin looks better. People notice, I mean, the minute you drink, it’s a toxin in your body. So your body stops allweight loss function. You know, it, gets rid of alcohol before it will get rid of anything else. So it doesn’t matter how much you eat. The minute you have a glass of wine or a beer or a cocktail, that’s all the body focuses on getting rid of.

So It’s interesting to take a period of time without it and to see how you feel and to new hobbies, right? Like what might you do after dinner other than sit on the couch with your drink? Or what activities might you do on a Saturday night that are different than what you did before?

But, The other thing that’s awesome about not drinking is there are a ton of non alcoholic options out there. non alcoholic beer is really good. 

Brie Tucker: I don’t think you could get me to go to that one. No way. No how. Well, I, yeah, I was going to say, I don’t like beard to begin with. I feel like anything that anyone says, it takes a while To get used to it. It’s not really something you should but but again, i’m not i’m not a beer drinker And obviously neither is joey as both of us are like, oh heck No. and I have to say everybody does their own thing, which is totally again, i’m with you 100 on this JoAnn that If I choose to do something, I’m doing it for my own accord. I don’t want to be doing it because I’m being shamed into it. And you’re being very clear, Casey, that that’s not the, the ideal is there. But I have to say with the non alcoholic beverages, here’s my thought. no yes, because there’s so much sugar in them. no, the whole point of dealing with all that sugar is so that there could be like a little bit of an alcohol with it. I’m

JoAnn Crohn: We’re so 

Brie Tucker: gonna stick to my water. I’m perfectly fine with my water. 

JoAnn Crohn: So going back to the sleep comment, I have heard that about sleep and I totally see it in my own thing. if I have a glass of wine at night, it feels like you fall asleep fast, but then you’re up, at two or 3am because you’re not completely in that REM sleep. It takes you out of it. this book, why we sleep by Matthew Walker. I don’t know if you’ve read it. it’s, it’s. Such a good book. And he talked about how, it does take your body some time to process the alcohol. So if you do choose to have a drink, he suggests do it at lunchtime where your body has a chance to process that and then 

Brie Tucker: You heard that. You heard that. That means lunch drinking. 

JoAnn Crohn: No, 

Brie Tucker: what that means.

JoAnn Crohn: I mean, it’s just with the sleep thing. It’s totally true. Totally true with alcohol. It will totally reduce the sleep. with moms in particular, there is this mom culture. and I’ve seen it in my own life. we even have a bumper sticker once for No Guilt Mom. It was like first car line, then wine, which we have since discontinued because of the message it propagates.

With this mom and wine culture, I think we’re really looking at a bigger problem. that’s not going to be completely solved with giving up alcohol, though. Giving up alcohol is a good thing all on its own. reducing your use of it. but even in the 1960s, 1970s, used to hear about mommy’s little helper and mommy’s little helper was Valium. It was like a little blue pill to deal 

Casey McGuire Davidson: a tranquilizer. We’re going to tranquilize ourselves.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. And I feel that, and tell me what your thoughts are on this Casey, that this has is what alcohol has become. It’s become quote unquote mommy’s little helper. 

Casey McGuire Davidson: Yeah. I mean, there are bottles of wine that literally are branded mommy’s time out.and you know, skinny girl vodka and all the things. I mean, there is definitely, they call it the pinking of marketing alcohol to women. As you know, empowerment and something you deserve and something that helps you get through the day with Children.

And I was the biggest participant in mommy wine culture. I used to give my friends books that were titled sippy cups are not for Chardonnay and nap time is the new happy hour. So zero judgment here. But as I’ve gotten away from alcohol, I now look at people saying, here, have a glass of wine as if they’re giving you a pacifier.

You know, when your kid is tired or overwhelmed or whatever, and you’re just like, I’m out. I can’t deal with you. I need you to calm down here. have a pacifier. It’s for women here, have a glass of wine. You are overwhelmed. You do need help. You are lonely. And instead of taking the resources and the boundaries and everything else we need to even ourselves out, it’s like here, have a tranquilizer because alcohol is both a sedative and a stimulant. It’s really interesting in that way. 

JoAnn Crohn: Yes. Yes. It’s so interesting. Like how you call the pinking of marketing because I don’t see this going on with guys. Like I feel like there is a, shame associated with women and giving up drinking, being like, Oh, You’re setting a bad example for your kids and you’re not doing this best thing for your health.

And then with guys, they’re like, have a beer. You deserve it. So there’s this unequal, gender, issue when it comes to sobriety. and I want to hear your thoughts on that Casey, right after this break. So Casey, looking at a gender level with sobriety and the men versus women and the messages being told to women and the messages being told to men. what have you seen in this in terms of the sobriety movement?

Casey McGuire Davidson: I think that it’s something that stops a lot of women from looking at their relationship with alcohol or talking about it. The idea that if I stop drinking, people will then think I had a problem with alcohol. And I truly truly believe that’s shifting. I see it everywhere, but it’s a stigma, especially if You are with a lot of drinkers.

it’s the only drug that if you decide to stop taking it, people will pressure you to continue. If you tell someone, you know what, I decided to stop smoking because I feel better without it. Nobody’s going to be like, Oh, just have one. You know, it’s no big deal. Whereas with alcohol, people will actually pressure you. To drink, and not in a bad way, but it’s this idea of this indulgence. What do you think, 

Brie Tucker: was gonna say, like, I think it also comes into, I don’t think it’s intentional, but I think a lot of people tend to immediately judge, oh, you stopped drinking. And then they may not say it, and maybe it’s like my always worried that everybody’s judging. But you would think that if says like, no, I’m not drinking anymore, I’m taking a break, then their head, they’re going, oh, this person must have a problem. they must have been like an alcoholic or something and I just didn’t know. I feel like people go that direction more than if they’re like Oh, you quit smoking. 

Casey McGuire Davidson: Well, everybody knows that smoking is addictive and not good for you. And so what I really like to do is to lower the bar on that. We, in society, in marketing, I mean, Big Alcohol has done this very purposefully. The, you know, there are, quote unquote alcoholics, which by the way is not even a medical term, it’s a self diagnosis, who cannot drink.

And then there’s everyone else who just needs to drink responsibly, and it’s no big deal. And the idea is that no one would stop drinking unless they’re in that alcoholic category because it’s so precious and so wonderful. And What I like to do is to think of it more of a health and lifestyle choice, like deciding to become a vegetarian, right? we do stuff all the time that’s not good for us, but it does make you more anxious, it does impact your sleep, it does make you less likely to exercise the next day, um, right? And it’s a depressant.

And so you’re just like, you know what, I am deciding to see what a period of time in my life would look like without it, how I would physically feel, what interests might come up, what boundaries I might be uncomfortable with. I always ask women, what do you not have to think about when you drink?

JoAnn Crohn: That’s a good question. Actually, what do you not have to think about? Um, but I’m 

Brie Tucker: craziness is happening in my life at that time. I don’t 

JoAnn Crohn: Whatever. I mean, I don’t, it’s not a thinking thing for me. It’s I’d like a glass of wine when I’m making dinner and I don’t take it all the time when I’m making dinner, but it’s just I’m playing music and I’m making, I guess I’m not thinking about having to make dinner.

Casey McGuire Davidson: Well, 

Brie Tucker: Like what I mean yeah, I would say it has to do like whatever is right there That is mundane at the moment is probably what you’re trying Right? which I could actually say I do in a lot of I can, yeah, yeah, that’s TV, that’s, that’s even sometimes just get into my car driving and listening to music, I’m like checking out, I’m just checking out for a little while. 

Casey McGuire Davidson: Yeah. 

JoAnn Crohn: and in 

Casey McGuire Davidson: and I think it’s different for everyone, but if you are worried about it or trying to come back and haven’t been able to, you’re definitely not alone and there are resources out there that can help make it easier that in no way have labels or judgment or anything else. 

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah, that is a good thing. The introspection and the seeing how it impacts your life. And if you’re not able to make that change, then, it, there are resources available and you have some of those resources. So can you tell us a little bit about your podcast? 

Casey McGuire Davidson: absolutely. My podcast is called the Hello Someday Podcast for Sober Curious Women, and it’s a coaching approach to making this lifestyle change and behavior change that’s actually pretty hard to make. So I bring on coaches and therapists and experts. It’s practical and uplifting, but we also talk about a lot of the things that Make women want to drink.

So working in a male dominated workplace or perfectionism, imposter syndrome, anxiety, parenting, you know, I’ve done sessions on both parenting young kids and parenting teens and tweens, marriage, communication, all of these things sort of impact them. the way that we drink if it’s become a coping mechanism.

And for me, it definitely was a way I celebrated. Yes, but also a way I coped with just The of my life as sort of I was this overachieving people pleaser who had trouble with boundaries. Drinking helped me shut that voice down in my head. 

JoAnn Crohn: That is a very introspective approach because I feel like a lot of women get into that scenario. They are the people pleasers. They are the boundaries. And when you, that, that voice is uncomfortable and it’s making you so rageful, raging, rageful, there’s a new word, raging mad inside that like Drake shuts it off and I totally see that. Casey? What are you excited about that’s coming up for you in your life? Let’s end it on a real good note.

Casey McGuire Davidson: Yeah. so when you asked me this question earlier, which I’m still very excited about, I started a membership. I have an online sobriety starter kit coaching course, and I started a group coaching membership on the back end of that. That is really amazing. I’m meeting. All these incredible women who are on the alcohol free journey.

But today when you asked me, I’m really excited. I’m going to Provence now in July with three friends who also don’t drink and one of them used to run alcohol free adventures. So we are in the middle of planning catamarans and electric biking through lavender fields and markets. So that honestly is what I’m most 

JoAnn Crohn: does sound amazing. I want to go back. We went to Italy like at a girl’s trip like a few years ago. Gosh, I want to go back with friends as well. Yeah, me and 

Casey McGuire Davidson: Girls Trip are the best. Once you have kids, you don’t do it as much. 

Brie Tucker: Right.It takes, it takes more planning and I think sometimes that overwhelm of trying to do the planning can be hard, but that is one thing if you’re listening to this podcast, you know that we strongly recommend it’s worth it. Invest in that time in you because you are worth it. 

JoAnn Crohn: Yes, exactly. So Casey, thank you so much for joining us today. I learned a lot about the sober curious and choosing sobriety and alcohol free. and I know that you are making a difference with so many people and bringing this to the top of their mind too. So thank you. I 

Casey McGuire Davidson: thank you. 

JoAnn Crohn: love this conversation with Casey and this talking about mommy wine culture, because something we bring up is we had a bumper sticker for no guilt mom that said first Carla and then wine.

Brie Tucker: Hey, I loved that bumper sticker. I, but part of it too, I thought was the funniest was that the place where it was the biggest hit was my kids went to a charter school that was, known for being very very Mormon and I would get more and more of that staff would constantly be like, I want that sticker where I’m like, no, you’ll get in trouble for having the sticker on your car.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. Well, I think there’s a line because I love that sticker too. And I remember, one of, like my friends who’s a therapist was like, Oh, you got to take that sticker off your car. You can’t have that. associated with your company. And I’m like, why? it’s a glass of wine. It’s totally okay. But there is a, I don’t want to say there’s a distinction, like one’s bad and the other’s good.

It’s not that it’s more that it’s nuanced in its interpretation of things. Like not talking about like a glass of wine to forget all your troubles. please don’t use alcohol for that. Although like, I’m no 

Brie Tucker: is not mommy’s.Well, and like we talked about in the episode, it’s not mommy’s little helper.

JoAnn Crohn: Yeah. And like using it as a substitute, for dealing with issues like boundaries, like people pleasing, everything like that. There are other solutions to that because I feel like we get in this mode where we drink because we feel helpless in a situation. And I just want to tell you right now, you are not helpless. there are ways that you can deal with the situation, but You may not know them yet. And that’s okay. That’s totally okay. And I hope that Casey brought up a lot of great things that giving up alcohol can do and things that might come to the surface. what were you thinking, Brie?

Brie Tucker: I was just very interested in and learn about it. Like I feel like You know as we come into this january and the dry january movement I feel like i’m normally on that trip anyways, but for me, it’s a non sugar movement we we talk about addiction a little bit in the episode like about addiction to like how alcohol is an addictive substance.

and I talk about my coffee as I’m still drinking as we’re talking right now. And with me, I definitely have to work on why I use like, I use sugar too often. it’s too often something that I use, make myself feel better. I make jokes all the time. You’ve heard me say before, well, I’m off to go eat my feelings right now, you know, And for me, that’s where alcohol falls in. It’s another sugar thing for me. 

JoAnn Crohn: the eating and the suppressing of feelings. And I think that’s where we get it. that’s it. And it was so eyeopening to me a month ago, I was in a situation when we’re talking about mental health and this. topic of binge eating came up. I was a binge eater growing up. I didn’t think anything of it.

It was like eating like a day’s worth of calories in one sitting is basically binge eating. I would come home from school. I would feel lonely and I would look in the leftovers in the fridge and eat so much, like so much. I physically hurt. it was that kind of thing. And the kind of thing that is shamed. Against. It’s oh, you have no self control. Eh, it’s not a self control issue. It’s actually a mental health issue about anxiety and about, how your brain processes the feelings and trying to numb it.

Brie Tucker: Right. I was gonna say it gets Right. And so it’s all about learning all those different skills and how you can do it. And so everybody has a different journey, a different way that they’re going to do things. And like you said, alcohol can be a really touchy subject because people can feel very passionate one way or another about it.

And you never really know until you try that. as I’ve gotten older. So now that I’m in my mid forties, the whole, going for like 30 days without alcohol is not a bad thing for me because I do see I get less floating, blah, blah, blah, all of that.

But at the same time, I don’t know, like it’s, I don’t feel like I need to cut it out of my system completely because I do enjoy a very well 

made margarita. By select people in my life. They make very good ones. Yeah, you and Miguel are two, like, Like, honestly, I look forward to my Christmas present every year from you because you make me a little mason jar.

Oh, it’s so good. I I I got I guard that sucker. it gets a sticker on it in the fridge that says Do Not Touch. This is Breezy’s. But, yeah.

JoAnn Crohn: I love it. Yeah, that feeling like you almost feel personally attacked when you feel when somebody tells you, you need to give up alcohol when you enjoy it so much. But I think that there’s something to it because I think as women, we’re told we have to give up so much, And when you come after the alcohol, it’s one more thing that we have to give up that these men get away with scot free.

And we talk about it though. We talk about it. and especially in my house, My when my husband goes through really stressful periods, he tends to drink more and he admits this. and he’s yeah, I don’t like that either. and it’s a conversation about that. But I think in society, this message is that, Oh, you’re drinking.

Mommy’s drinking. That’s bad. Mommy’s doing this. That’s bad. Every single thing we do wrong or anything that brings us pleasure. We are pressured to give up societally. and I think that’s the resistance that I have internally against, like when I hear a dry January, I’m like, don’t make me give up one more thing, 

Brie Tucker: say, yeah. Yeah. Because it’s up to everybody. Everybody has a different journey and a different thing that they’re doing. So again, with me, when I do it, it’s not a dry January. It’s a sugar free timeframe. Alcohol just happens to fall in that, category. But. It does make me reevaluate what my relationship is with that.

and that’s the important part is Everything comes back to reflection, right? It all comes back to reflecting on how am I reacting to things? why am I really feeling this way? Am I upset about this? Am I upset about something else and like all of that? So I don’t think it’s a bad idea to try but you have to do it for you I always support doing it for you for your own reasons not because you think you have to or because somebody else is Well, no, no see that now i’m all like oh, 

JoAnn Crohn: It’s a very tricky subject. It’s tricky. And there’s so many underlying issues with it that it’s different for every single person. So when you listen to messages like this, you really have to keep in mind your own situation. And there’s no one who could tell you what to do in your own situation. But if 

Brie Tucker: yeah, if you’re curious, 

JoAnn Crohn: resources. 

Brie Tucker: yep, Casey’s got some great resources for you.

JoAnn Crohn: exactly. So remember the best mom is a happy mom. Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later.Brie Tucker: Thanks for stopping by.