Yoga, Parenthood, and the Power of Mindfulness with Sarah Ezrin Transcript

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JoAnn: Welcome to the No Guilt Mom podcast. I am your host, JoAnn Crohn. Joined here by the lovely BrieAnne Tucker

Brie: you pulled out my whole name!

JoAnn: JoAnne and BriAnne,

Brie: Yeah. I know that is funny, but you know that if I start going by my full name and the way I spell it, people will start misspelling your name or mine. It’ll be one of the two. Cause mine’s A-N, like we both have a capital A in the middle of our name, but mine’s A N N E and yours is A N N.

JoAnn: I could go by Joe Joe’s. Joe’s, what some people

Brie: Isn’t that crazy?

JoAnn: Some people call me Joe. Some people don’t

Brie: Right, I’ve known you for so long, and whenever I hear anybody call you Jo, it still seems weird to me. 

JoAnn: Josh calls me Joe. Josh calls me Joe. And so like

Brie: So does our friend Shana!

JoAnn: Yeah, I guess Shana

Brie: And I’ve known you slightly longer than Shana has, and yet I still feel like you are JoAnn.

JoAnn: I usually introduce myself as JoAnn and Joe is picked up. If, unless it’s a nickname, somebody calls me or if they hear it, my husband call me it. And that’s when, that’s when the Joe comes out

Brie: Man, I don’t think I’ve had anybody call me by a nickname since I was Like, when I was younger, my sister would call me Breezy.

JoAnn: Oh, breezy BrieAnne.

Brie: Nope, just Breezy! Just

JoAnn: Breezy

Brie: And I, it was, we, I, yeah, and actually now that I think about it, she does still occasionally, because I can see her handwriting writing Breezy on things all the time.

I think that was the only nickname I ever had, was Breezy.

JoAnn: yeah, I had D because, but from my little sister, I was D because my parents called me JoAnnie, and so it was D, she heard the D, and that was my name, but I,

Brie: and then do your parents still call you JoAnnie?

JoAnn: No. No, they call me JoAnn.

Brie: they don’t call you

JoAnn: Yeah, it’s funny.

Brie: That’s

JoAnn: No.

Brie: Yes!

JoAnn: No one but Josh and other people call me Jo. That was a name that came after high school, in college.

No one in high school called me Jo either. it’s weird. It’s weird how things happen. And, this conversation has nothing to do with our topic for today. So it’s totally fine. It’s totally fine. It’s what we do over here. we’re talking about yoga and the yoga of parenting and it’s super interesting because we really get into anger and how yoga isn’t really this calm thing that, but it’s Becoming president in the moment and honoring your emotions.

And we’re talking with Sarah Ezrin, who’s the author of The Yoga of Parenting. She’s a world renowned yoga educator and mama of two toddler boys. She’s a yoga teacher and writer with a focus on mental health and parenting, and the intersections between the two. So if you’re feeling anger right now, or if you’re feeling like you’re trying all the things and you’re failing, and you’re wondering what the issue is, this is the episode for you.

So we hope you enjoy our interview with 

Welcome to the podcast, Sarah. It is so great to have you on.

Sarah: It’s so wonderful to be here. I know we were already like, we did our whole pre chat before.

JoAnn: We did. It’s like the awkward transition into the podcast. I don’t like it’s not my favorite because I’m like, OK, what do we talk about? And how do we get this in? And what do we do? And that’s like my crazy mind. But you’ve written a great book called The Yoga of Parenting, which I hope that is is aiming to calm crazy mind.

Sarah: we’re to embrace, to embrace.

JoAnn: embrace the crazy

Brie: figure out a way to harness that into a positive, to a useful tool.

JoAnn: Yes, yes. How old are your kids, Sarah?

Sarah: So my youngest is, 16 months. And then my oldest is three and three quarters. I just taught him how to say that. And it’s the cutest thing ever, 

JoAnn: Three 

and Three, 

Brie: Is it 

Sarah: three, we keep saying three and a quarter, three quarter, a quarter, a quarter, but he’s turning four, in December. So, that’s what I was just saying, we were saying right before, it was like, you know, certain business endeavors, like leading yoga retreats, I haven’t done in four years, because, or five years, because I, I was pregnant for, for most of that time,

Brie: And that does make it hard. That does make traveling and doing a retreat by yourself very difficult.

Sarah: Very difficult, but we’re getting there. We’re slowly breaking out. You know, I’m like I get to do In one of the for the book tour. I’m gonna go to Montreal for one night by myself, which is like know, so we’re slowly getting there again But but I also love to have being with them and I like bringing them everywhere too.

So

Brie: Right, traveling with kids. JoAnne is fantastic with that. You have so much experience.

JoAnn: it’s so much easier when they’re older, Sarah. It’s so much I remember the plane flights with my kids, like, I think the, the youngest I took my daughter on a long one, one and a half when we went back from Minnesota and it was like a three hour, four hour flight and I was ready to murder my husband because like I was sitting next to my daughter and he was sitting across the aisle with his headphones on the entire flight.

And I was like, I was like, this doesn’t fly. We’ve We’ve learned a lot since then, and he would never do that now. Never. But, oh, it was a big source of discussion. Because kids change things.

Sarah: Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean my, and this is out of context of the airplane, but I will do this on the airplane when we fly in September is if I need him and he’s off somewhere, you know, else in the bathroom, then I bring the kids to him. I’m like, I have to bring

Brie: knock,

knock. 

Sarah: exactly, they don’t always know that like they should be coming out and offering and taking initiative, which is its own thing.

Brie: So you gotta, You just bring them to them. So if they’re, if they’re across from the aisle with this headphones on, I will be used to handing children over across the aisle. I will make sure that we each split time, you know, I love that you’re already aware that mind reading is not going to be one of his top skills. I

JoAnn: I do the tap out. The tap out is good. I will say to him, I’m like, I need a tap out. And he’s like, okay, like everyone goes over that way. And it’s so funny because kids realize who the available parent is, who the one who is constantly on alert and looking for things to jump in. And usually, I mean, it’s mom and they will still come to mom, like even my kids will still come to me first.

And even now I’m like. Hey, so dad’s here go to

Brie: we share what happened a couple of weekends ago when we did a girl’s pool day? That you were getting, that you were getting text messages. From one of your kiddos, and your husband was home, and you weren’t home, and they were

JoAnn: oh, Yeah Yeah, Yeah, and I like took a screenshot of the text and I said, hey, can you go check on him? This is going on. He’s like, oh, I didn’t even know

Brie: Cuz the kid, cuz your kid wasn’t even registering him to talk to you, to talk to him.

Sarah: like a warm body, a human being in the room with them and they still, they’re seeking out the mom that is outside of the home. It’s amazing.

JoAnn: It’s Amazing. It’s amazing. So obviously with all of these demands and stuff on our time Sarah, we need ways to calm down We need ways to calm down

Sarah: All the ways, many tools.

Brie: Yes.

JoAnn: the ways. So how can yoga, help us with this when we have so many demands on us?

Sarah: Well, I think it, it helps to figure out which part of yoga we’re talking about, right? Because like, when I say yoga, people automatically assume oh, a pose, or you have to be like in a class, exactly. But yoga is actually how we live our lives. It’s, it’s really ultimately when you look at the root of the word and you look at all the different practices of yoga, because there’s breath practices, meditation, mantra, even there’s something called karma yoga, which is like giving back, so when you’re being of service, like, all those things are forms of yoga, and it really, when you get down to the root of it, what’s, what is it that you’re doing? Well, you’re connecting, you’re connecting with someone else, or you’re connecting with your deeper self.

So coming back to that source, like remembering that over and over and over again, that is the key to finding that grounding, to finding that calm. So for example, you know, when we are the parent that is not there and we’re getting the text messages, it’s Being connected enough to ourself and our own energy tank to take a second, be like, okay, I can’t answer this right now.

I don’t need to answer this right now. Remember we were talking about the stress response earlier too. And like the fight or flight with the reactive part, the non yoga practice would be like me firing off the text message to the kid to answer and then firing off a text message to my husband to be like, where are you?

But

JoAnn: That was me.

Sarah: yeah. And, and which is so we are human, right? This is, this is what we do. But, What if we had a practice where we could actually pause for a second, feel our body. Take a breath and be like I and it sounds like that’s what you did like you you’re like I can’t answer this right now.

You were also in the home How can you help with this and and it was just that deeper connection to what you needed the deeper connection to what the kid? Needed in that moment and then of course having this more, you know I’ll put air quotes because you know We’re human and we’re moms is the calm response the calm ish response to our partner if that’s applicable But it’s really like that was a yoga practice.

That whole scenario was a yoga practice. You were like tuned in, you breathe, you set your message, you know? So, yeah, I think like it’s, it’s just kind of changing what we think of as yoga and realizing that we’re doing yoga all the time, every day as parents.

JoAnn: Yeah, and you’re right, because I wouldn’t associate that with yoga. I would associate only with the physical, aspect of yoga, so it’s interesting to, to hear that. I would name that as mindfulness, but are they kind of synonymous?

Sarah: So mindfulness is, and John Kabat Zinn is like a phenomenal mindfulness teacher and they’ve done a lot of research on this UCLA. They have a whole mindfulness center, but so much of mindfulness is comes from the Buddhist tradition. so, you know, in the, in the yoga, yoga philosophy and specifically the type that I teach, it comes more from, I mean, if, if you have to look at it from a, you know, a higher, you know, it started in the Hindu philosophy, but it’s its own philosophy practice of yoga.

So there are just two very different stories. But Buddha, like when you learn about him as Siddhartha, right? And if you’ve read that Herman Hesse novel that we all read in high school, he was a yoga practitioner first. So there’s a lot of carryover and a lot of connection. I mean, really it comes down to forget the religion of it.

Forget, you know, any of those terms is what do you do every day to get present and to connect? And that is different, you know, across the board as far as what we call it, but it’s all the same thing. Right. So whether it’s like I come from the Jewish faith, right. whether it’s, you know, when we’re like in synagogue and, and, you know, singing together or, you know, my husband is completely like agnostic and like no connection to anything, you know, it’s and his is just feeling into his plants as he’s gardening.

It’s whatever that thing is that gets you present and connected, that’s what it is. So it can be mindfulness, it can be yoga, it can be connection, but it’s all really the same thing.

Brie: Is there something, is there something about being agnostic and liking plants? Because that’s my husband too. He is very plant, he’s a plantaholic man and that does help him like ground and feel there.I’ll see him going around the house watering his plants and he’s breathing

and checking them

Sarah: it’s so funny. I mean, we’re also like, so he’s also culturally Jewish too, so we had a Jewish wedding, culturally it’s different, but he like, you know, when we talk about, universe, or, you know, the God word, he can’t, he’s allergic to those conversations, but he, but then he is all about,you know, these little life forces, these little beings and his plants, so I don’t know, I mean, I just, you know, I think it’s It’s just that interconnection that we have with each other and with everything around us and with nature.

And I’m like, this is universe, I don’t, he makes fun of me for saying everything’s universe and source. And I’m like, but that is it. That is it. You are doing the same thing.

JoAnn: It kind of makes sense to name that as the universe and the force, and I like that interpretation of it in a non Star Wars y kind

Brie: Energy.

Sarah: force.

JoAnn: The source, the source, the

Sarah: force too. I like force.

JoAnn: force, the source. Oh, I heard that wrong. The

Sarah: So, but maybe, you know, it’s like whatever, whatever you want to name it. You know, I’m, I come from a family of alcoholics and addicts and a lot of people are in the program of AA and I’m in Al Anon, which is for the children and sisters, wives, et cetera, of, of, alcoholics.

And so we talk about like higher power, right? It’s whatever you. You decide it can be. It doesn’t have to be like a man in the sky. It doesn’t have to be a particular religion. It doesn’t have to be organized by anything. It can be your plants. It can be the ocean. It can be whatever. It could be the forest.

It can be the source. It can be universe. It’s just that you know, when you feel into something that’s greater than us, right?

So yeah, this got really esoteric really quick.

Brie: I know. I know. But you need that 

as a 

JoAnn: will take it there. We’ll take

Brie: You need to find that things are not 100 percent in your control. Because as a parent, when we think, when we get into that mindset, and I know JoAnne will have a million things to say on this, like when you get into that mindset that it’s all in your control.

Then all of a sudden, you’re the problem. And it’s, and it’s, and you’re guilty, and you’re shameful, and it’s not a pretty place. It’s a dark place that a lot of us end up in.

JoAnn: Well, I think it’s because we’ve been conditioned to do all the things as moms and so connecting to something that is not in your power and Acknowledging that really helps, especially when it comes to guilt and shame. And I know in your book, you talk about intrusive thoughts and those fears and worries.

so something I find so interesting in your book is that you take a yoga practice, like for instance, in this part, it was cat cow, and you say how it relates to intrusive thoughts. So can you tell us a little bit about, like, how does Cat Cow relate to controlling intrusive thoughts and fears?

Sarah: I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head with especially, I don’t love to gender it, but let’s be real, it’s on the moms, right, especially in this country, of do it all, control it all, which means that you are the cause and also you are the solution, which is a lot, and I’m making air quotes because that’s not reality.

We are not the only solution. and it, it, there’s a lot of yoga is about trusting in it’s, it’s, it’s what we would call it like non attachment, which I know can sound really cold. So I like, I like even I don’t even want to use that term, but it really is like kind of letting go and surrendering.

And I feel like cat cow, that’s a kind of pose where you can, you can feel that any balance. So it’s like you, you show up, you do the work, you are present, right? You feed your kids, you get them up, you have the schedule, you get them out the door, you get them to school. But then at a certain point, you got to kind of like, you know, you throw your hands up and trust that there’s a greater practice and a greater process that’s happening out there.

And that’s. That’s what that non attachment piece is. So when we think about, the idea of cat cow, cat cow specifically, I use because it’s more it’s reigning in the mind to be like, okay, I’m, I’m opening up to something and I’m closing down to something, and you’re just starting to ride what is reality, which is that everything is constantly changing all the time.

We’re not in control of anything, and it’s terrifying as moms. It’s the scariest, hardest reality. To grasp, you know, this thing is living outside of us that is a piece of us and our heart, but they are not ours, they are not in our control. And all we can do is show up and be present and love and connect and set limits appropriately.

And then the rest is that trust process. And you know, so if you can feel it in your body, just the flow of like showing up and letting go, right? Breathing in and breathing out. It’s just one way to remind ourselves that we are really part of this much bigger fabric, right? That, that force, as we said, it’s, we are just in the flow, right?

which is, which is tough.

JoAnn: Yeah, it is. It is tough because I mean, true gender wise, we are not totally in control, but also we’ve all been fed this message that it’s all on

and it’s all our fault. And it’s crazy because you just see like media articles, for instance. and I won’t name who this is, but somebody who said that they felt it was.

Important for one parent to be at home when the child is zero to four. so that the child is raised with that family’s values. And I was reading this and I’m like, well, you sure we’re not the one home with this child. It was your wife and that’s the message. I think that we get as women, that we’re responsible for how our kids behave.

We’re responsible for the values that they have. And so all this pressure is on us to get it right. And it’s so hard to let go. As you said, and I love how yoga that it reminds you. Cause I don’t, it’s funny with cat cow, when you first said that I’m like, so cat cow, I just have to trust it’s doing something because I don’t feel it doing anything.

I’m doing

Sarah: so funny cause it does seem like such a, like a placeholder, right? You’re like, what am I doing here? But I think 

it’s 

JoAnn: it’s

time for cat cow again.

Okay, 

let’s go. 

Sarah: Which, by the way, though, like being 16 months postpartum, having had a shoulder surgery, like all these injuries, having very little time, Cat Cow is now my, favorite pose that I do because I can do all these different things in it.

Oh yeah. And I used to be like, I got to do major backbends and I got to stick my leg behind my head. And I’m like, no, just give me a Cat Cow, give me a child’s pose. Because you’re just, you’re learning how to, to sit back into the, into the flow of it. Which, you know, back to your point, JoAnne, is like, We are told that we have to do everything, but then we’re not being supported by the greater system, right?

The greater system is designed for one parent to stay at home. But I read this, you know, it was talking about millennials specifically and, you know, and, and maybe even later Gen X, which is that we were all told. We could do it all. We could have the career. We could be the mom. We could do this, but then the system never changed.

It’s still, why does school still get out? I mean, 2 PM, right? But like most work days ended eight. Why are my kids on summer break? What is this summer break insanity that no one prepared me for, but I’m not on summer break for my jobs. 

Brie: hearing shades of Eve Rotsky in there. There. But the, right?

With the whole, we’re told we can do it all, but then the system is not made to support us in that.

JoAnn: well, it’s a system that’s really failed us because especially here in the U. S., we do not have the supports that other countries like Finland do in terms of what they give their parents. in fact, U. S. is built on women and the unpaid labor of women. But what I also love and I’m very hopeful about is that this is becoming more of a conscious thing for people, especially with the Barbie movie.

Did you see it,

Sarah? 

Sarah: it. So no, don’t say I’m

JoAnn: Oh my

gosh. Go watch it. Go watch

Sarah: every, I, I’m dying to go, and I’m like, I’ve, I’ve somehow ignored everything. I haven’t read anything, so I’m like, I, I know, I’m, I know, I don’t know how I’ve done it. I’ve had my head in the sand. I like, you even say Barbie, and I’m like, la la la, yeah, I’m, cannot wait.

JoAnn: Yeah, I will, yeah, I’ll just say like it brings stuff to the forefront and it being such a popular movie, I’m like, yes, finally we can talk about this. But, it’s true. so much is on us and I love this thing of connecting and letting go. but there’s also this anger. That arises within us too, because when you see that the system isn’t designed to support you and the system is really keeping you down, especially with the laws that are being made in our country it doesn’t support women whatsoever.

I mean, when that anger comes up, I’m assuming that there is something we can do yoga wise to kind of help us work through it. So what do you suggest in terms of anger and releasing anger?

Sarah: I mean, I’m so glad you bring it up, right? Because there is some misconceptions in the wellness world that you know, when you do yoga, you’re never angry and you’re always calm and

Brie: hasn’t worked for me.

Sarah: That is a misconception, right? I mean, yes, maybe if you were meditating in a cave somewhere and not of the but we are all participating in the world every day.

And as parents, like we call it the householder stage, right? Like we have to have earned an income and earn a living. It’s actually thought of as like a spiritual path because this is how you’re living your truth. You know, you earn your income, so you could do what you’re meant to do. You two are changing lives, right?

And everything that you put out there, but you have to show up and you have to work in order to do that. So you know, how are we reframing these things to understand that, okay, we are a part of the world. We gotta be a part of the madness. So what are we, how are we using this as, as power? Right.

And I think I’m out of things with the force again. It’s like anger comes up. It’s a very natural and normal emotion. don’t know if you read Brene Brown’s new book, Atlas of the Heart.

JoAnn: no, not the new one, but most of our other

Sarah: Oh my gosh, yeah, and she talks about anger, you know, there’s like a lot of like Different different researchers think different things.

Is anger a secondary emotion? Is it really anger comes out of fear? Is it coming out of this? Is it coming out of that? Well, it does she says in the book She’s like I don’t care if it’s secondary or primary it is an important emotion is what you do with it So from a yogic perspective anger is an Activating force, anger can be something that spurs change.

And like we were saying about the Barbie movie or people feeling like, okay, I’ve had enough of this right now. So there is ways to channel it. Now, if we’re just being reactive and yelling at everybody, then, you know, there’s no connection and that’s not really working in our favor.

Brie: tends to just make us more angry. Honestly.

Right? 

Sarah: and, 

JoAnn: Like going on social media and like sparting off things or doing the, as it’s called slacktivism, where it’s like you repost everybody’s stuff about how things can change, but nothing’s really changing.

Sarah: I do that too. Cause I was like, yeah, you repost the stuff about changing, but you’re not actually changing, but it is, I think given the platforms that you have, don’t stop doing that. Right. I, I would highly encourage you to keep posting the memes and keep posting the information because if that’s all we can do, I mean, that’s especially like when my youngest was, it was during COVID and black lives matter movement with George Floyd.

And that’s all I could do. I wasn’t, I couldn’t go out and like March. Right. But, I think that is a form of its own activism, and especially, you know, you two are so, you have such a wide reach, so please, please keep posting all the info. But, it’s you know, what are we doing with our anger?

And, and I think what’s, what’s just sucks, and I… Is that, you know, as women, when we get angry, it’s suddenly like, Oh, she’s such a, you know what? and then suddenly we’re labeled as the angry one, instead of somebody stopping and pausing and being like, well, what led to this? Right. Is it really postpartum rage or are we just completely unsupportive?

Is it really, you know, hormonal, you know, PMS, whatever, people like to label it, and it’s always labeled with our hormones, or is it really that we’re meant to be in a quiet space during that point in our cycle? And I don’t know enough about cycles to, like, talk about it, but, you know, We’re not meant to just be go, go, go, go, go, going all the time.

And nobody’s pausing to be like, how are we living with nature? And how are we connecting to ourselves? And I think that’s what the yoga can do is like, yes, it’s cat cow, but it’s also like, oh, I’m feeling a little tired today. I’m going to go a little slower. I’m feeling really energized today.

I’m going to add a couple of things onto my plate. I’m in a period of, you know, generation and creation. I’m in a period of low and quiet and, and I’m in a, I’m 

angry today. So

what am I? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. because there’s great power there too. I mean, and, and many, you know, there’s a lot of believers out there.

especially people that were raised in, in the traditions of yoga that say yoga is activism. Like it’s, it’s, it goes hand in hand. It’s not just being cool, you know, cool cucumbers the rest of your life. It is taking that force and that power and let’s create change.

Brie: love that and it’s something that both like women and men like Everybody can use because so often in our society like our reactions do get attributed to hormones but men get anger and explosive outbursts and And it’s 

JoAnn: tell people to do things and it’s oh, he’s the boss. Okay. Oh Make sure everything’s done else.

He’ll get angry and it’s known as something accepted and it’s something that’s okay, when a woman gets angry, it’s like, she’s a bossy little bitch like that. That’s and it’s, it runs both ways. Like I, I call myself that, when I get angry and it’s so ingrained in us to see ourselves that way.

And I love what you’re saying, how yoga just accepts it and takes it and looks at the anger is like, what can we do with this and how could we affect change?

Sarah: I mean, also by the way, and again, I’m not an expert on this either. We’ll have to find the experts on the hormone cycle of, of our menstrual cycle, but also like men have hormonal changes throughout the

month too.

Brie: It’s crazy having a boy going through that too, because you think about it as your, as your kids get older, I’ll consider JoAnne and I your ghosts of parenting future because we have, like, older kids. So, like, when my son went through that, that same age of preteen, he had emotional ups and downs that I would have said.

My daughter would have because I’m like, all right, I know she’s going through puberty. She’s going to have these ups and downs with emotions, totally disregarding that for my son. And thank God I had it. My sister had mentioned to me, she’s I just want to let you know, You know, when your son gets older, he’s gonna like next year, he’s going to probably start doing these things.

And she’s, and I was like, I never would have thought of that, that my son would be going through the emotional ups and downs of the hormones that you automatically tie into girls because of puberty. And because of menstrual changes, you don’t even realize that it happens with boys.

JoAnn: And imagine the power, if that was normalized with boys, because then they would have more acceptance of it as well for themselves and not try to fight it as much.

Sarah: I think we are doing that. I mean, I think like I’ve listened to your podcast and The questions that you ask and the the people that you bring on, you know We were just talking about hunter clark field and like I think we are Doing that like I feel like with my son I’m not just like, okay, you know, just buck up bro.

Like we, I really honor his emotions and we’re giving them languaging. So it’ll be, I think it’s going to take time, but it’ll be really interesting to see, you know, and I, I see it even with like my, my mother in law, you know, when she, when the kids were, were much younger and they would be crying and she’d be like, why are you crying?

But like over the years we’ve told her, well, we actually, we. Don’t mind him crying. We honor that emotion. And she, now she’s like, you know, it’s just much more inquisitive about it. Right. So it’s I see it even changing generationally with the grandparents, but it will, I mean, and even my dad, even my dad who was like sent me an article saying, you know, kids get more anxiety when you give them too many options.

Like now when I like sit back and watch him with my son, I see him like getting down and he’s would you like the blue?

Brie: Oh God.

Sarah: he knows he’s going to you know, this is important. you know, it’s, it’s important to name things and to give options and empower. So I’m really, you know, like you said, JoAnne too, it’s I’m very hopeful for the future about, you know, seeing where, how these boys develop and how great breathe that your sister told you that, right.

Though it’s and that you were open to it because there’s so many families and, you know, and generations prior that would have just been like, Nope. You know, but you were open to it and how much that changes the whole experience.

JoAnn: It does. It changes the whole thing. Well, Sarah, this has been awesome talking about anger, talking about all these emotions, getting like heated. I love it. and learning how to take that yoga practice a little bit deeper than what we think yoga is. So the podcast. It has been amazing.

Sarah: Thank you both. Thank you both so much. And yeah, I know, I think it’s, it’s almost better. Like we talked about things that aren’t even in the book, but it really is. It’s just like, how are you living your life? Right. How are you living your life? How are you feeling right now? And what you two do so beautifully is the, when you’re connecting to yourself, that that’s your power source.

Right? That’s not, it’s not a source of guilt. It’s not you being selfish. That it’s, it’s the most important thing that we can do. And if that sometimes is like step away or take a break or, you know, whatever we need to do, that’s what we need to do to take care of ourselves so that we are connected and can connect.

Brie: Love 

it. Love it. Love it. Thanks. I’ll talk to you soon.

JoAnn: So I think we’re both a little loopy right now because I was looking at my hair in the camera and how first of all, I think my hair has grown. I think I’ve grown some hair back after COVID,

Brie: Oh, yay.

JoAnn: which is great. Yeah. Cause all the COVID stress was causing me to lose hair. And I definitely noticed like my hair is thicker, but I also like, have you ever made a hairstyle?

And you have to do specific things with your hair. Else it’ll look weird. Like with ponytails, I ponytail go back. Cause it looks really severe. I have to take out the hand strands on the ends. So I have this face framing. So it looks softer.

Brie: Yeah, probably. with me, it’s the, I can’t do anything but my side part. if I do anything but my side part, my hair looks weird. And I also have these, little baby weirdo things up here. look at that. Look at that little sucker. It never grows.

JoAnn: hair growth.

Brie: Yeah, but it doesn’t grow any longer. It’s been like this for about a year now.

It not gotten any longer. Don’t do that. like my hairstyle. she doesn’t cut it because it already pops out a lot So yeah, we it’s trying to take the joys and then like you said with hairstyles like my hair We’re in the summer here in Phoenix as we’re recording this and we’re getting into monsoon season.

We just started it So this is the period where my hair goes naturally wavy not straight not curly just a weird bedhead look 24 7 Thank you, humidity.

JoAnn: I’ll have, I’ll have, strands of straight hair and then strands of wavy hair. And I’ll be like, what is going on? Can we make a decision, please?

Brie: It feels crazy. It makes you feel like you’re, yeah, you’re just nutty, nutty, nutty, which I guess I’ll honor. I’ll honor that. I’m feeling crazy, nutty, and I’m not trying to say it in a sarcastic way. I’m just like bringing it back to

JoAnn: after the interview, after Sarah’s, yeah.

Brie: need to, I need to honor my emotions and be able to work through them.

And I think I’m going to start working cat cow into my, my daily, like I normally, okay. So downward dog and child pose is normally my favorite. Cause I feel the most stretch out of them. But I think Cat Cow is going to be one that I’m going to add. And, you know, you saw that I like to do paddleboard yoga.

JoAnn: Yes. As we did it at Shada’s and we both fell face first into the

Brie: I can get into a pose. It’s transitioning into a new pose that doesn’t do well for me. I think I could do Cat Cow.

JoAnn: It’s hard in a pool, it’s harder in a pool

Brie: That’s what makes it fun.

JoAnn: but if you’re going down a river,the river and like the current of the river actually supports you because like when I was on a paddleboard, I was able to do like headstands. I was trying because the board was more supported than it was in a pool where you have these two concrete sides and you’re like, Oh my gosh, if I fall, I’m going straight first into the concrete instead of straight first into the water.

And so you don’t want to try as much.

Brie: there is a lot more of the, the, the movement in the water in a pool versus, you’re right, versus doing it like on, I had a lot harder time transitioning. And standing on my paddleboard in a pool than when I do it on the lake or in a river. I do much better in those environments. Although, yeah, yeah.

But I’ve also taken paddleboard yoga from there’s a local place here in Phoenix that does desert paddleboards. I love her. She is amazing. And she has special paddleboards that she uses that

JoAnn: Oh.

Brie: anchor they, yeah, they anchor so that you’re like, you could still fall off and into the water.

And it is very refreshing, but, it’s not her goal and it does help keep it like more steady. But

JoAnn: Yeah. Because if you guys saw Bree and I trying it, it would be like, we get up and you could see us wobbling, and we’re wobbling, wobbling, and then they’ll BOOM,

Brie: we’ll have to, you know what, maybe we’ll make that into a video for you guys at some point. I don’t know. That would

JoAnn: Shayna got, Shayna got out of that. Did you notice? we were the only ones falling on our butts in the

Brie: somewhere to go. She didn’t want her hair to get wet. I’ll give her that. I’ll give her that, man. That was, but yeah, we’ll have to make everybody do it. That’s our next girls get together. Paddleboard yoga.

JoAnn: And ice baths.

Brie: Oh!

JoAnn: A lot of work to do in ice

Brie: Well, you know, yes, and so it, for those of you guys that have listened to our back catalog, Tiffany Thaysen, she offered to come out and help host us with some ice baths.

We’re seriously considering it and that’s a big deal because JoAnne’s been trying, she’s brought that up a few times to me, and I’m like, oh hell no,

JoAnn: yeah, I’m thinking I need to go get a bag of ice. We’re very water focused now

Brie: I, she got, you know

JoAnn: hair to yoga to ice

Brie: she got me at that it’s only three minutes, and I’ll give the same amount of calories burned as an hour of workout.

I’m like, there,

JoAnn: Oh, really? Oh, you’re like, sign me up. It’ll be the longest three minutes of your life.

Brie: It will be, and she’s talking about childbirth and I’m like, uh huh. Both of my kids were with a C section and I didn’t really go into labor with either of them because the first one was an emergency. And so like, I didn’t go through that. I feel like I dodged something.

JoAnn: it’s so funny with childbirth because I wanted a natural birth with my second and I didn’t because he was breached and I wanted a natural birth with my first and I didn’t because she was breached, which is very rare to have two breaches, but. I thought I missed something, like I really did, until I, helped my sister with her birth.

And she, her son was not breech. But, she labored for, gosh, like eight hours hard. it didn’t look fun. Mm mm. I was very thankful for my C section. Very thankful. Yeah, I do not recommend. Mm mm.

Brie: had. Yeah, the first one I had a very small bout of labor with, but it wasn’t, it, anyway, it was just, and the pain meds came right in on that one because it was way too early there. I was, that was 20, 26 weeks where I started to have my labor. So they were like, oh, no, no, no. We’re gonna stop this right away.

So I didn’t have it very long. But yeah, it’s crazy. It’s crazy. So anyways, going back to things, Sarah’s book, the yoga parenting is really, really interesting. And you’re mentioning like how in the book,she gives you like poses and how you can tie that into things. And it’s a really, really cool book.

So if you are into yoga, even even curious about it, and you’re curious about mindfulness and how to tie that all together. Check out her book, The Yoga Parenting. I think it’ll be very, very helpful. I think you’ll enjoy it a lot.

JoAnn: And we have a link for you in the show notes. And while you’re like on your device, can you go give us a review? Go give us a review at Apple podcast. We would love it. It helps the podcast reach more people and we so appreciate it

Brie: So appreciate you. They can’t see my, my prayer hands right now, but thank you

JoAnn: time. Our review comes through, we get an email, and

Brie: every single one.

JoAnn: like, it’s amazing. And just pushing all the good vibes to people who give us reviews. So please, please, please, if you could take a quick second to give us a review, we would so appreciate

Brie: Drop us

JoAnn: And until next time, remember the best mom’s a happy mom.

Take care of you. We’ll talk to you later.Brie: Thanks for stopping by.